Need help on choosing a audio interface!

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Member Since: Apr 05, 2007

I recently bought a Yamaha MG16/4 and I'm looking to get into recording. I have pretty much no experience in recording, hence the topic. I've been recommended a few dif set ups:

M Audio Audiophile 2496
M Audio Delta 44 Digital Sound Card
M Audio Delta 1010LT 24-Bit 96kHz PCI Card

I've also seen the M Audio Delta 1010 package that comes with the card(mentioned above)and the external box and I'm not sure what the box does to benefit recording.

Any help you could offer would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

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Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Apr 05, 2007 07:12 pm

Welcome to HRC

Those card are pretty much all the same thing, different only in the input and output quantities...so which one to choose totally depends on how many inputs you'll need at any one time.

The 1010 comes with the breakout box (that's where all the input and output plugs are) the 1010LT does not have a box, it's a big snake of cables.

Member
Since: Apr 05, 2007


Apr 05, 2007 07:22 pm

Thanks for the welcome! Well since the yamaha mg16/4 has a max of 10 mic inputs. I'd like to have a 8 input card so i dont have to put everything into stereo mixes. Because then mixing and editing would be very limited.

I guess the box would be nice to keep things a lil organized

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Apr 05, 2007 07:26 pm

The breakout boxes are nice if they rackmount (can't remember if the 1010 does or not) it keeps things neat. the 16/4 has 10 mic inputs, but, I believe only has two main outs (left and right) and two subouts (left and right or two mono, however you choose to use it) so only 4 total outputs are available unless you get wacky and use aux outs, or the channels each have direct outputs...I don't think the 16/4 does, but I am not sure.

You'll want to check that out before investing in a multiple input card.

Member
Since: Apr 05, 2007


Apr 05, 2007 08:13 pm

I looked it up and well it's a 4 bus with stereo and group. Is that we're you're getting the 4 outs?

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Apr 05, 2007 08:28 pm

Yeah, exactly...it's not the number of inputs on a mixer that matters to the soundcard, it how many channels/signals can come out.

Member
Since: Apr 05, 2007


Apr 05, 2007 08:36 pm

Well I'm looking to be able to use this mixer for everything. The 4 outs wouldnt bother anything except when I'm micing drums. How would I set that up? I know I'd most likely put 2 mics on the snare (1 top, 1 bottom) and 1 mic on each tom, and then 2 overheads and a kick drum mic for the bass. But how would i choose which to run through together?

So which would you recommend i get?

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Apr 05, 2007 09:15 pm

you can get a surprisingly decent drum track by submixing them to a good stereo set and sending just left and right tracks to the sound card. Mixing after that would prove difficult, but I've done it myself many times and it's worked well provided you pay good attention the first time.

Member
Since: Apr 05, 2007


Apr 05, 2007 09:20 pm

Though I'm saying this before having started recording whatsoever, I want to be able to record to the highest quality. And i know lots of hard work is needed, but i plan on working alot with it and experimenting.

So would you recommend the M-Audio Delta 1010? Cuz thats what I'm leaning towards anyways, sound card and the box.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Apr 05, 2007 10:45 pm

The Delta series on the whole is pretty decent, the 1010 is no exception, though people have had issues with the 1010LT. If you get the 1010, you'll be stylin' I am confident.

Member
Since: Apr 05, 2007


Apr 05, 2007 10:54 pm

Sweet thanks for the help! I found one brand new on ebay for a good price of $300. More then I want to spend but least its new.

Faze 2 Studios
Member
Since: Aug 15, 2005


Apr 06, 2007 12:25 am

wait, maybe im wrong but cant you tap the audio from a mixer by running a cable out the "insert" that is on each input into the delta 1010? or am i wrong?

-melty

Member
Since: Apr 05, 2007


Apr 06, 2007 12:32 am

dude, i honestly have no idea. i am COMPLETELY new to recording and i just joined this forum today.

Faze 2 Studios
Member
Since: Aug 15, 2005


Apr 06, 2007 02:25 am

that was more of a question for DB, I have a Motu 8pre and a yamaha 16/6 mixer . 10 of my channels on the 16/6 have something called an "insert". its a 1/4 in hole right below where you plug in each mic. See if your yamaha 16/4 has those holes. I think they are labels "insert".

The way i understand it is, you can use that insert to tap the signal of the mic. So if what i think is correct, you woild be able to have 10 different outputs from your mixer. Just run the Mixer inserts into the Inputs on the Delta 1010.

Toamrrow i will run the inserts on the yamaha into my Motu and see if it works, and ill let you know.

But somebody please correct me if im wrong right now...

-melty

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Apr 06, 2007 07:05 am

Yeah, if each channel has an insert that would work, I didn't know it had those...and him being relatively green, I figured I'd stick with the more standard routing to keep it basic.

Member
Since: Apr 05, 2007


Apr 06, 2007 10:53 am

Ok I checked it says Insert I/O

haha relatively green? more like extremely.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Apr 06, 2007 11:12 am

We all were green at some point, you seem to have the drive and you know at least what you need to ask, so you'll get 'r done...

Member
Since: Apr 05, 2007


Apr 06, 2007 11:37 am

Yeah my drive is to be able to my band good cuz the closest place charges $650 a day. Plus I'm pretty sure it's what I want to go to college for if I can get going good with it now. I looked at the closest recording college to me and its McNally. Seems like a wayyy nice school.

I KNOW NOTHING
Member
Since: Jun 08, 2006


Apr 07, 2007 09:07 am

I checked out McNally on the web and it sure looks nice.
We've got a recording school here close to Columbus called the "Recording Workshop" that I'd absolutely LOVE to get into, but it would be hell getting the time off of work.
Someday, perhaps.

Uh, at least one more time . . .
Member
Since: Feb 07, 2007


Apr 07, 2007 10:41 am

About that I/O business with the insert points:
Sooner or later Shenanigans will be dealing with
the Inserts, so I would reccommend getting a patchbay and the relevant cables. Or at least get the cables so you can send out signals from the I/O points. The manual for the mixer should explain the inserts, but one never knows. Try researching this a little; a mixer with inserts is definitely a good thing to have . . .

Member
Since: Apr 05, 2007


Apr 07, 2007 11:01 am

I dont know if you know this Tim but I'm just getting into recording. So I dont understand what you mean by a "patchbay and the relevant cables"

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Apr 07, 2007 11:06 am

search the site for "patchbay" you'll find lots of discussions explaining what they are and how to use them, at this point, I don't think you need one personally, but they are cool.

Love solder fumes in the morning
Member
Since: Apr 06, 2007


Apr 07, 2007 01:36 pm

Yeah, patchbays are really cool i personally like those that use VANTAM connectors, they are small and sound great!!. By the way... i would recommend a Digi002 or 003(the same thing), and an ADAT unit, this way you'll be able to use 8 analog inputs and outputs and 8 digital inputs and outputs using the ADAT as an A/D, D/A converter, for a grand total of 16 in/out, and of course you'll have an ADAT to do what ever you wish!!, this way you'll be using all the channels of your mixing board (if your mix board has 16 direct outs or inserts), and i've always find it very pleasant to mix (at least volumes) with real faders and knobs.

Member
Since: Apr 05, 2007


Apr 07, 2007 03:11 pm

My mixier has 16 channels-8 mono microphone/line inputs and then 8 other stereo inputs(two of which offer mono microphone capability). It only has 4 outs. So I don't know how much 16 direct outs would help. Seems like overkill

www.rigsbysmith.com
Member
Since: Nov 13, 2004


Apr 09, 2007 02:23 am

It means you can send all the channels to your interface individually rather than as a sub mix, which obviously offers greater flexability.

Member
Since: Apr 05, 2007


Apr 09, 2007 07:54 pm

Yeah but if there is only 4 outs how can i send all 16 out individually?

Faze 2 Studios
Member
Since: Aug 15, 2005


Apr 09, 2007 08:39 pm

wait, i thought i had solved the problem, with the whole "insert" thing. that would give you 8 seperate outputs, to go into a Delta 1010 or something.. 8 the 8 outputs coming out of the 8 inserts on your mixer, for each mono channel.

right? hahah im pretty confused now lol

-Melty

Master of the Obvious?
Member
Since: Jun 29, 2004


Apr 09, 2007 11:12 pm

Alright, I own a Yamaha MG16/4 and a Delta 1010, so I can probably help!

The inserts = direct outs when plugged 1/2 way in. Thus, get 8 1/4" patch cables & you're set!

Member
Since: Apr 05, 2007


Apr 10, 2007 06:08 pm

you mean the insert I/O or whatever?

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Apr 10, 2007 06:28 pm

Yep, Insert I/O is actually two connection (a three lead cable, like stereo inputs) if you feel it as you put it in you can feel two clicks...the first click is output, the second click is input. Therefore, if you take a normal mono cable, and push it in just to the first click, it acts as a direct output.

Using as intended it works with a Y cable, with the Y ends being input and output of the device to be inserted into the channel, the single end gets put into the Insert (all the way) and it acts as a complete loop.

We should really have an article about mixing board routing trickery...

Member
Since: Apr 05, 2007


Apr 10, 2007 06:42 pm

oh wow cool. yeah id rather be able to mix each channel separately rather then having stereo mixes. Y cable as in one end with a the 1/4" jack and oen end with the microphone jack? I'm just trying to understand this to the best of my ability. and then whats the benefit of a complete loop?

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Apr 10, 2007 06:47 pm

the end of the Y looks just like a typical 1/4" jack only it has three contact point instead of two, otherwise known as TRS (tip, ring, sleeve).

Look at the first and second pics on www.homerecordingconnecti...story&id=26

Member
Since: Apr 05, 2007


Apr 10, 2007 06:59 pm

then why would they call it a Y because that kinda mis leads you to believe it splits the cable to 2 ends.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Apr 10, 2007 07:36 pm

It is a Y...one end is two mono jacks joining into a single stereo jack, it's a perfect Y.

Member
Since: Apr 05, 2007


Apr 10, 2007 08:16 pm

oh well i understand the idea of the y cable but the set up for it i dont. So, if you look at this as a guide ( www.musiciansfriend.com/d...051&index=1 ) then you have the mono lines for the I/O and then the line right below it and then the stereo end goes to the m audio delta?

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Apr 10, 2007 08:59 pm

what say you stop linking to the shithole MF and try zZounds instead...

MF sucks *** and I hate them.

Member
Since: Apr 05, 2007


Apr 10, 2007 09:06 pm

sorry its just what i've used. ive never heard of zZounds. here ill fix it.

oh well i understand the idea of the y cable but the set up for it i dont. So, if you look at this as a guide (
http://cachepe.zzounds.com/media/quality,85/brand,zzounds/p20816R-0f5fe55c14be9f43acaef6ac18fea3d8.jpg

) then you have the mono lines for the I/O and then the line right below it and then the stereo end goes to the m audio delta?

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Apr 10, 2007 09:21 pm

eh, just bustin on ya, I do hate MF, but whatever...zZounds is better, they actually give a crap.

Member
Since: Apr 05, 2007


Apr 10, 2007 09:27 pm

can you help me with that question though? im not totally understanding it. im more of a visual dude then understanding stuff by picturing it.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Apr 10, 2007 09:45 pm

Not sure how else to better explain it, push a cable to the first click...thats about it...

Member
Since: Apr 05, 2007


Apr 10, 2007 09:58 pm

no my question was that you put the mono lines into the "line" insert and the I/O and then the stereo goes right to the m audio delta?

Member
Since: Apr 05, 2007


Apr 11, 2007 09:56 pm

any help?

Czar of Turd Polish
Member
Since: Jun 20, 2006


Apr 11, 2007 10:21 pm

Plug 8 instruments into the inputs on your mixer. Then use 8 cables on the inserts, pushed half way in (to act as outputs) and run them to the 1010. That way you get 8 seperate mono channels, which can be mixed/panned seperately and mixed down to a stereo mix for the end result.

Member
Since: Apr 05, 2007


Apr 11, 2007 10:54 pm

awesome thanks!! yeah i was gettin confused with the y cable stuff.

Uh, at least one more time . . .
Member
Since: Feb 07, 2007


Apr 11, 2007 11:33 pm

Sorry, Shenanigans, I sometimes forget that
what seems simple to me is clear as mud to a
novice. I figured all this stuff out by
reading and re-reading the manual to my Behringer
2442A mixer. I assumed that the mixer you have
outlined what the inserts can do . . . though the
"half way in" trick is done to avoid the patchbay.
The whole deal here is to have the greatest routing flexibility. Do try mixing live multiple
signals down to stereo every once in a while,
though; that will really give you some insights
into signal and mix levels, EQ settings, etc.
I hope I didn't muddy the waters too much this time 'round.

Member
Since: Apr 05, 2007


Apr 13, 2007 05:32 pm

i kinda understand. yeah the waters arent totally clear but everything has helped me so far.

Prince CZAR-ming
Member
Since: Apr 08, 2004


Apr 13, 2007 06:29 pm

Shen, I have the mg16/4, plus had a 1010lt before I got my ESP1010 (same basically as the 1010, with breakout box).

You won't need the y cables. Those are only if you need to use the insert point as an actual insert point. Which you won't, in this context.

You will only need to tap signal from your mixer channel (8 of them, to be exact). To do this, the 1/2 way into the insert jack is the ticket.

At this point, you only have mono signal, and just want to send it to your 1010, so a 1/4" - 1/4" mono patch cable is all you need.

Here's a lovely example, from the nice people at zzounds:

www.zzounds.com/a--884907/item--HOSCPP80

If you went with the 1010lt (instead of the 1010), you would need to plug 6 cables from the mixer inserts over to the 6 RCA inputs with cable like this:

www.zzounds.com/a--884907/item--HOSCPR80

(2 of the inputs on the 1010lt are xlr inputs, so you would plug your mic directly into the 1010lt, instead of going to the mixer first).

At this point, it's not useful to think of stereo signal, unless you have a source that's actually stereo, like some keyboards, or a drum machine. In this case you would need 2 connections from your source to your computer.

But for voice, drum mics, guitar, bass, etc. you only have 1 mono signal. After you get the tracks down into the computer (as mono), they will play out both speakers. The multitrack mixing software sends signal from the mono track to both speakers. You can then pan each channel around where-ever you want. The program essentially makes the stereo signal out of mono signal for you.

Unless, you input a stereo signal, then the software should keep the two sides separate, but connect the two together (as stereo).

Hope that made sense.

Prince CZAR-ming
Member
Since: Apr 08, 2004


Apr 13, 2007 06:31 pm

Oh yeah, if you haven't decided yet, the ESP1010 from ESI is a dandy card. Better specs than the 1010 (a little) and has some better features, like 2 midi jacks, 2 headphone jacks, the directwire thing, etc.

Member
Since: Apr 05, 2007


Apr 13, 2007 06:34 pm

that makes the most sense out of everything i've heard. thank you alot! haha.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Apr 13, 2007 07:47 pm

ESI makes some awesome drivers too, very low latency...I love my ESI.

Prince CZAR-ming
Member
Since: Apr 08, 2004


Apr 13, 2007 09:38 pm

no prob Shen, though I think I just re-iterated what's been said before. Probably more wordy, too =).

Yeah, Noize2U and dB both got me sold on the ESI stuff. Kaos bought one too, and he's been very happy with his.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Apr 16, 2007 10:25 pm

Yep, I'll third the ESI gear. Not talking smack on the others but since switching to ESI I have not had one lick of trouble at all. And my latency is rock solid as is the audio. I do still keep an M-Audio Delta 44 on my older studio box which has been relegated to just older recording programs now and surfing the net. And of course playing all the wonderful music that comes from HRC members.

Member
Since: Apr 05, 2007


Apr 17, 2007 05:53 pm

I'm assuming latency is like delay? From what ive read the Delta 1010 is SUPPOSED to have zero latency. and i can get it cheaper then the ESP1010

Member
Since: Apr 05, 2007


Apr 18, 2007 10:21 pm

now i see the delta 1010 has "super low" latency

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Apr 19, 2007 06:47 am

"super low", yeah, thats the technical term for "well, it's pretty low, you should like it"...

Seriously though, the Delta would likely suit you fine...if it fits your budget it's the best available at that price point.

Member
Since: Apr 05, 2007


Apr 19, 2007 07:55 am

ok thanks, i just bid on one on ebay so hopefully i'll get it...just hopefully no one will go over my maximum bid

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Apr 19, 2007 07:58 am

It's not the 1010LT is it? Lots of people have probs with the LT.

Member
Since: Apr 05, 2007


Apr 19, 2007 08:02 am

NO! yeah i made sure to go for the Delta 1010 with the card and breakout box

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Apr 19, 2007 08:25 am

SWEET.

Member
Since: Apr 05, 2007


Apr 19, 2007 05:56 pm

haha and well as luck has it i got the Delta 1010 on ebay for a mere $262

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