do i need a 'stack' to be in a band?
Home > Home Recording Forum > Gear Gab > do i need a 'stack' to be in a band?
Posted on Mar 13, 2007 02:36 am
fortymile
Member Since: Jan 18, 2003
i've been in many bands, but they were always local things, basement things. for years i played through a peavey--dont know the wattage, but it came up to my kneeds. later i added my bass amp to the mix, splitting the signal between the two.
i might want to join a real band soon. i am concerned about the fact that i don't have a big setup. i don't really know what people think about this. i see a lot of ads for 'must have pro equipment' and i believe these people want you to have the full deal. is that true?
i wish i could just plug my POD into the pa. i've heard that some bands have done that, but no one ever wants to do that.
i think i posted about this last year or something. cant find it though
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olddogMember
Since: Jul 02, 2003
Mar 13, 2007 03:26 am I've never played in a band, but from what I've observed it all depends on the size of venue your going to play. Most bands that I've seen playing the typical club, wedding etc, have had combo amps w/ dual 12" speakers in the 50 watt range. Larger venues you tend to start seeing the stacks, but you still see alot of combo amps as well.
Dan
LokiCone PokerMember
Since: Apr 07, 2002
Mar 13, 2007 04:58 am Nah you don't need a stack... a good combo should be good enough, until you're packing stadiums. I mean if it's not getting loud enough they can always mic it and feed it through the house PA.
Mar 13, 2007 06:09 am Having a stack is mostly to look cool...and it often pisses off the sound peeps. The amp is for nothing but producing the original sound, everything else in cluding monitors and FOH sound is done at the board. I once read an article the KISS had a huge wall of empty speaker cabs to look cool, and had small single 12's behind it that were actually miked and piped to the PA which did all the work. I don't know if it's true, but it made for a cool story.
When I was gigging a lot the best thing I even did was downsized from a huge double stack (4x10, 2x15 and a head with 300 watts) down to a combo with 1 8", 1 15" and a 150 watts. It was easier to move and sound men were not always telling me to turn it down.
Mar 13, 2007 06:56 am i dont really even know what a combo is. what is it?
keep in mind, i've been in many bands. i just never cared about gear...
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Mar 13, 2007 07:09 am combo is the amp and speaker all in the same cabinet. as opposed to a head that's separate, on top of a cabinet with speakers. Head and cabinet can be separated, whereas combo is all together in one box.
Combos are usually smaller (i say usually) wattage, and not as huge sounding. This can be a good thing.
It used to be, that bands that played out, used large rigs, like dB posted above. Now-a-days, with better technology, and smarter design, the combos are on par with the large setups, maybe just not as many watts, though some still are.
'Must have pro equipment' is like saying 'must have dependable transportation'. If you're going to be delivering pizza with your car, they don't want you to be breaking down every other week.
Same for gear. Don't come in with a cheezy guitar that never stays in tune, or a practice amp that sounds like a tin box. If you're going to be doing the modeling thing, then a vetta would be pretty good, whereas a pod with a crate as your main rig might get sneers and crooked looks.
Now, if you totally wailed through a pod and crate, the crooked looks would turn into smiles, and you'd be respected, so talent and showmanship will go a long way for proving your 'gear' worth, so-to-speak.
Another thing too, floor switchers are much better than having to twist knobs between songs. I've had several patch switches mid-song on my gt6, and floor pedals are way easier and smoother to run.
(that last part is my .02$us, to be sure)
Mar 13, 2007 07:24 am I thought about this a bit on the way to work this morning, forty...and really it boils down to your current band situation and the venues you play...and it has nothing to do with the sound of the amp. Regardless of the sound of your 2 4x12 cabs (or whatever) the PA still only mics up one of the speakers.
If your band plays in venues where you need your own PA, and the PA you use is limited or your mic-count is limited odds are the PA is basically just used for vocals (and maybe kick and/or snare), and each musicians uses their amps to power the FOH and monitor volumes...cuz it's the only volume there is for it.
If, however you play rooms that have a PA then you will need nothing but an amp of whatever size that you are happy with. When I have auditioned or held auditions, I was personally never interested in the size of the gear but more the reliability and sound of it. My combo bass amp was not a big amp, but, it was a well known brand (Ampeg), moved easily and sounded friggin awesome (easily best sounding amp I've had), and that speaks louder than anything to me personally.
Though everybody is different, so who knows, thats just my two sheckles...
zekthedeadcowEat Spam before it eats YOU!!!Member
Since: May 11, 2002
Mar 13, 2007 07:57 am with combo amps I strongly suggest an 'amp stand' though... basically a table to set the amp on to get it off the floor...
but pro stuff basically means 'non ****' ...no Indiana guitar, etc.
Mar 13, 2007 07:59 am yeah, a stand or build/buy a rack that sets it at an angle like a monitor so it's aiming up at you.
Mar 13, 2007 09:57 am Something to think about:
Billie Joe Armstrong from Green Day has a huge wall of Mesa 4x12's (I want to say there's 10, but it could be 8 or 12... I'm not really sure). Not a single one of these are used. Sitting behind them is a Marshall JCM800 50watt combo which is mic'd throug the PA. That "other guy" that plays guitar with them (Jason White)? Vox AC30 combo.
That being said, I use a full stack and my bassist uses an ampeg 8x10 cab, but honestly it's mostly an image and presentation thing. We could easily get the same sound out of smaller gear.
Mar 13, 2007 01:47 pm I use a 2x12 at some gigs and 4x12 at others and with different sounding rooms the 4x12 is better on stage but no difference through the pa.If you get a 4x12 try to find a slant front cause as you get further away from the cab on bigger stages the angle of the top speakers will project the sound higher.I just stick an ash tray under mine or with the 2x12 stand it on the drum bits flight case,drummers like this cause they dont have to find a place for it:)
Mar 13, 2007 02:46 pm yeah, i've found 2x12's to be the the best...they have no problem keeping up with live drums (which is where most smaller amps have troubble)....if you're privy to runnin' a POD through a PA, that'd be another option (if you want that)....****, try to get a listen of a MESA mark III....it's a single 12 with 30 watts (i think) that'll rip your head off if you can get it up to ear level....this thing is a monster! a full 8x12 stack is just plain overkill, it says alot about the size of your junk. ;)
CptTrippsCzar of Turd PolishMember
Since: Jun 20, 2006
Mar 13, 2007 02:54 pm I think the 2x12 combos are fantastic for gigging. I want one, right now though I carry a marshall 4x12 and a 50w ampeg. Chicks dig it thoug ;)
Mar 13, 2007 04:20 pm My band gigs a lot. I use a Roland Cube 60 with one 12" speaker. It has a speaker-simulated line out which goes into the board. The amp gives me plaenty of stage volume, and the PA does the rest.
Who wants to lug around a big old stack anyways?
HuePinnipedal Czar (: 3= Member
Since: Apr 11, 2004
Mar 13, 2007 04:34 pm I've only used 2x12 combos in the bands I've been in . First was a Musicman HD130 tube amp... man, I really miss that one ! The other was a Crate 120w somethingorother .
Never had a volume issue, and they're alot easier to cram into the back of a Ford Ranger, and drive allover with .
TallChapAnswer:On a good day, lipstick.Member
Since: Jun 24, 2004
Mar 13, 2007 04:50 pm My all time favourite stage set up was a band I played in about ten years ago.
Two guitar players, one bass player, one drummer.
We had a single 1x12, a single 2x2, and 1x15 on each side of the stage. Lush sound!
DiemusikString benderMember
Since: Unknown
Mar 14, 2007 12:55 am You know for years I played through a 2 12 peavy combo that was a 100 watt tube amp and that had plenty for most clubs. I did end up buying and using a 100 watt ampeg tube head and a 4 12 "Half stack" cab but like Db said above I just mostly upset the sound guys. The only time I was really glad I had more power was at an outdoor gig and the sound guy didnt want to put any guitar in the monitor. Other than that is was pretty much just more heavy gear to lug around!
TallChapAnswer:On a good day, lipstick.Member
Since: Jun 24, 2004
Mar 14, 2007 09:54 am oh, I meant 2x12....
I remember going into Motorhead's rehearsal room once, and they all had four 4x12's running. It was insanely loud. Almost to the point where you couldn't hear anything.
Schenker used a wall of Marshalls...but was only miking one speaker in one cab. And that was in places like Budokan.
No you don't need a stack. As PJK noted, it's all about the sound (tone), and how you play. The rest is just stuff.
Mar 14, 2007 11:36 am lol ya, its like 99% fo sho
and the other 1% is for the max volume u can get outta it lol
Mar 14, 2007 03:37 pm thanks guys good info here, cant believe i dont know this stuff
Mar 14, 2007 04:29 pm One thing that hasn't been asked (and I can't imagine why): what style of music do you play?
I'm in a metal band, and there are times when we play a fair-sized area (vfw hall for instance) and the PA's not gonna be doing anything to help us out. In 100% perfect acoustic conditions, with a decent PA, you'd almost never need a half-stack/full-stack. However, 99% of the time you'll be playing shitty venues with a drummer that hits way too hard for how small of a space you're in. It's all about getting as loud as the drummer in a large, or small, space. Trust me: you'll be happy you have the extra wattage/speakers if you're playing outside too!
Mar 14, 2007 04:44 pm ya, i tink eveyone of my drummers besides the one i have now has been way 2 loud lol
i totally agree with that ^
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Mar 14, 2007 09:15 pm loud stuff. metalish stuff. grungy stuff.
Mar 15, 2007 02:23 pm If you're playing metal, and you plan on playing out, get a half stack. There will be many situations in which it will be a little overkill, but that's in a perfect world. In the 'real world', you'll get shoddy sound guys, acoustically atrocious rooms, venues with a terrible PA (or no PA!), etc. The thing about half stacks is it's not that you'll *always* need it, it's that you'll rarely regret purchasing an amp that is so versatile.
That said, buy a tube amp or I'll punch you in the teeth haha
TallChapAnswer:On a good day, lipstick.Member
Since: Jun 24, 2004
Mar 15, 2007 05:00 pm Quote: That said, buy a tube amp or I'll punch you in the teeth haha
Just remember that tube power is so much louder (possibly twice...but I could be wrong...maybe it's just "one louder"!) than solid state power. If you do get a tube amp, think about whether you're going to really need 100w...Will 50w work for you? Will 30w?
Tube amps need to be 'cooking' to achieve the right tones, so cranking a 100w tube amp to get that lovely sound will likely not make you friends if it's a smaller venue.
Just something to think about when you start lusting after that lovely Orange 300w head. Sure they sound good, but only when they're in the next state.
My little "Smokie" amp through an 8" speaker sounds 100 times better than a 150w triple rectifier at the same volume. Sure, if you crank that f***er, it's golden. But at lower levels, it's just taking up room.
Mar 15, 2007 05:10 pm Quote:
Tube amps need to be 'cooking' to achieve the right tones, so cranking a 100w tube amp to get that lovely sound will likely not make you friends if it's a smaller venue.
Yeah, I like tube amps, but I like the little 30 watters or so, you can get thopse tubes red friggin hot without blowing your eardrums out. Thats one place where modelers rule, they model the best tone out of an amp and play that tone at any volume.
BeerHunterwww.TheLondonProject.caMember
Since: Feb 07, 2005
Mar 15, 2007 05:50 pm I'm finding that my 40 watt tube amp is too loud to be practical. I'm either going to sell it or some how find a way to tame it (actually hoping that the XTL will help with this).
Personally I would rather have an 18 watt amp and mic it if it needed it to be louder.
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Mar 15, 2007 05:53 pm Before the house fire, I was getting into building a tube amp, fender deluxe output, with a marshall type preamp stages.
I'm still in process, but it's gonna be a while.
There's the 18watt project, created to duplicate the 18watt marshall tube amp. Lots of fun, and teaches you lots, if you feel inclined to build yourself an amp.
TallChapAnswer:On a good day, lipstick.Member
Since: Jun 24, 2004
Mar 15, 2007 05:57 pm I'd been thinking about building something, but I got gun-shy on the whole "dangerous voltages" thing. Ended up buying the little Epiphone Valve Junior.
That thing rocks! 5 watts of class A, and still too loud for my house.
One day I might go into building something cool. Maybe a tube power amp for my home system.
BeerHunterwww.TheLondonProject.caMember
Since: Feb 07, 2005
Mar 15, 2007 05:57 pm Quote:
Before the house fire, I was getting into building a tube amp
I think you just scared me away from building one - lol
PS - joking aside, sorry to hear about the fire.
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Mar 15, 2007 06:01 pm Ha!, no, it wasn't from my projects. Chimney fire, actually.
Our wood stove is now one of those outdoor kinds. No more indoor stove for me =).
Actually, we're doing pretty well now. Got a much better house, for the price of an old crappy one =). Plus, all my stuff has been replaced with brand new stuff.
So it was a crappy year, living in rentals, but now it's much better than it was before.
Not that I'm advocating burning your house down =).
Plus, everyone got out OK, even the cats, so we were grateful.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Mar 16, 2007 10:20 pm For the most part you won't need a stack. Our guitar player has a real nice combo with increadible tone. I'd say 80% of the venues we are offered have in house sound systems. And the bigger outdoor gigs definately have a full sound stage set up. A damn good pre-amp will do the most for you. DI out of it and your good to go!
Mar 18, 2007 11:02 pm Don't take this the wrong way, but it might be good to post how much experience we've had in order for the OP to gauge how much relevance our individual comments might have on his situation!
I've played in touring heavy metal bands for the last three years, have played hundreds of shows at dozens and dozens of venues, and have had compliments on my tone at many of these shows. The venues ranged from some kid's 12'x10' basement to a 750+ person fest at a huge roller rink with a full sound system. I have found that my full-stack has allowed me to perform anywhere I could possibly want with anywhere from living room volume to outdoor concert volume.
How 'bout the rest of you guys?
DiemusikString benderMember
Since: Unknown
Mar 19, 2007 01:16 am Hello [ins]anarchist, to answer your question, I personally played my first gig in 1991 and have since played everything from Rock, blues, metal to country in every type of possible venues from garage parties to large outdoor fests. I only needed a 2x12 combo for all but the one gig that sound guy was giving me a hard time. I enjoyed having a half stack but can not think of a single time that a full stack would have been more than a lot of gear to lug around and an amp that would never have been up past 4 or 5. Being that I use tube amps that would not have worked very well as you do need to drive those suckers pretty hard.
meltdown5Faze 2 StudiosMember
Since: Aug 15, 2005
Mar 19, 2007 03:35 am ive played a fairshare of gigs, probably at about 20 different venues. My fener Hotrod deville Combo was way more then i ever needed. 60watts of tube power. a drummer would have to hit his drum sso hard to overpower the deville, he be replacing his cymbals everyshow.
-melty
Mar 19, 2007 06:01 am Well, [ins]anarchist, I won't really play your "my experience can beat up your experience" game very long, but I gigged for about 10 years to anywhere from a few drunks to a couple thousand and more in larger concert halls and outdoor festivals. As well as having been on the other side of the sound board for gigs ranging from about the same sizes as my shows...I'll just leave it with the fact I have plenty of experience to draw on...
I got out of active gigging and into production a few years ago (about the same time I started this site) by choice to raise a family.
TallChapAnswer:On a good day, lipstick.Member
Since: Jun 24, 2004
Mar 19, 2007 11:20 am I'm with dB-Wan on the "my gig's bigger than your gig" thing, but I'll bite - gigged quite extensively from about 1978-79 through about 1998. Enough for you? Stopped due to being fed up with politics (small 'p').
One gig is experience. A thousand gigs is also experience. No experience is wrong.
Use your ears. Does it sound good? Really? Cool. Stick with it.
Mar 19, 2007 11:21 am I'm not trying to play any games dB, I just wanted to acknowledge the fact that what amp you need largely depends on your situation. Obviously, I'm not some seasoned pro or anything, but I do feel my experience might be more closely related to the OP's situation than some of the other posters, that's all.
If you're in a heavy metal band, and you're trying to gain a fanbase, image is (unfortunately) as important as the actual sound you're producing. Why do you think so many huge bands like to have a huge wall of marshall cabs behind them? Obviously, most of them are props, but that's my exact point: your amp is there for sound, and for show! I know in rock/jazz/country/pop/indie, almost anything but metal, your amp's tone is much more important than how the damn thing looks, but in metal, it's just as important as how good your songs are. It sucks, and I wish it weren't that way, but if you're playing out of a 1x12 combo amp after a band with half or full-stacks just got off the stage, you're automatically at a disadvantage. Keep in mind, humans naturally associate "louder" with "better sounding". While the inverse is usually true, it's still good to be able to crank it up to ear-splitting levels once and a while :)
TadpuiI am not a crook's headMember
Since: Mar 14, 2003
Mar 19, 2007 12:15 pm I think that the stack is a relic of a bygone era and is a dying breed for all but the wealthiest of acts, who can afford to buy them and pay roadies to tote them around.
Use an amp thats easy for you to get in and out of the venue. If its not loud enough, mic it.
Mar 19, 2007 12:20 pm I feel much the same way Tadpui does...people can say what they want about "the show" (which I do actually understand and agree with to a point), but that was never worth it to me to bother with the massive hassle "the image" crap created.
CptTrippsCzar of Turd PolishMember
Since: Jun 20, 2006
Mar 19, 2007 01:31 pm I got my marshall 4x12 for $200! I'd be playing with a smaller cab but it was too good a deal to pass up.
Also, a locl buddy uses the Genz Benz 2x12, it is fantastic for gigs. Loud, proud and light!
zekthedeadcowEat Spam before it eats YOU!!!Member
Since: May 11, 2002
Mar 19, 2007 01:35 pm the only thing you really need for show is a rackmountable tuner in 'nightrider mode'
and no I'm not joking...
Mar 19, 2007 01:45 pm Experience? yes,different styles,gigs over many years non stop to present and still learning.A good on stage sound makes you play better but it must be balanced with the band cause if you piss off the other players they will leave.
Mar 19, 2007 02:13 pm [ins]anarchist, I shouldn't jump to the conclusion that your goal was to brag about accomplishments, but I am jaded on that type of remark given some of the knuckleheads we've had come in here through the years.
Does anyone remember the 14 year old kid that came in here telling everybody about how much more serious than anyone else here he was cuz he got a standing ovation at a school band concert for his solo? Or the lead singer of a semi-successful band that I won't name, and treated everybody that disagreed with him like a complete worthless jerk...
So, those experiences and more lead me to be skeptical when a topic takes that sort of direction, even if it is valid to the conversation.
Mar 19, 2007 02:16 pm anarchist, i wouldn't want to attract fans with an illusion of that particular kind! to me that goes against everything i believe in. lugging a bunch of crap around just for show? absolutely not. the people who would be attracted to that wouldn't even be fans i'd want. i don't play actual metal, anyway. it's just a very big influence on me soundwise, but my aesthetic would be closer to grunge or industrial. and i simply don't have the patience to lug around hundreds of pounds of crap just for show. i would basically do whatever is necessary to get the right sound, and no more. and actually, although tube amps are great they're probably not for me right now because of the loudness issue.
im saving this entire convo for later. sometime this year i'll have to do something about my amp situation and these comments will be invaluable. thank you guys
Mar 19, 2007 02:22 pm anarchist, by the way, not to knock YOU at all, because i'm sure you're a great guy and stuff. i just think that when you say things like 'you're at a disadvantage' and 'i wish it weren't that way,' it just kind of strikes me as a very conservative, anti-rock (or anti-metal, or anti-rebellious) stance. when did kickass music become about doing what everybody else was doing? to me that's a completely backwards way of thinking. if your songs are too amazing to dismiss, if there's something about your music and your stage show that is above and beyond what other people are doing, people start looking at you, and copying you.
this is always the way i prefer to look at things. stay with what is right for you, do it the best that you can, and if you put in enough time and effort, eventually you can become the 'new example.'
when you get to the point where you might be doing tours and stuff, (and this goes for me as well) i wouldn't care if a crew loaded extra fake amps on stage for me. as long as it's out of my hands and i'm not involved. when a band is going to the trouble of lugging that stuff around by themselves, though, i can't help but thinking that their priorities are wrong.
Mar 19, 2007 02:27 pm Quote:
this is always the way i prefer to look at things. stay with what is right for you, do it the best that you can, and if you put in enough time and effort, eventually you can become the 'new example.'
Yeah, thats always how I worked too. When I got a big ol' double stack I was green enough to think I needed it, after a couple years, getting to know the business, the scene, other bands and musicians, I realized I was wrong...or, wrong for me anyway. I did what was best for the band as a whole, and didn't do what didn't help the music itself...not really worried to much about "looking cool" or whatever ya wanna call it.
That was very well stated, forty.
CptTrippsCzar of Turd PolishMember
Since: Jun 20, 2006
Mar 19, 2007 03:12 pm Speaking of this, I'm in a new band, we are called "Dopiate". I think we've got a nice blend from classic rock (zep) to stoner rock (QOTSA) with some weirdo tunes (mars volta) all coming together nicely.
I'm doing a 5 song demo for us and I will post after it's done. At this time though, I could name bands it reminds me of at times, but not one in general. This makes me happy as we are actually doing our own thing and getting very nice feedback from the listener.
Not to brag (maybe a lil) but one guy at our last show said "just keep doing what your doing and there will be no stopping you". That was nice to hear *head swells in size" :)
Mar 19, 2007 05:29 pm See and this is why I thought the experience thing was good to post, 'cause it really depends on what your goals are! In my chosen genre, the goal is to play fast, loud, & awesome and blow the fans out of their shoes! I wanna give kids that huge arena-rock feel in a smaller club/venue. For me, the marshall/mesa halfstack is part of what turns a "show" into a "concert" :) Again, that's just in my particular genre and, with different genres and goals, it's completely stupid to carry around more than you need just for the sake of volume/appearance. For me, it's a necessity :)
TallChapAnswer:On a good day, lipstick.Member
Since: Jun 24, 2004
Mar 19, 2007 07:29 pm I played in metal bands (NWOBHM, granted, not the new breed), and the 80's hair bands, with all the accoutrements including stacks of Marshall's/SVT's etc. Silly. Just backbreaking moving them around, and we didn't even plug in half of them. Looked cool-ish, but it didn't make the show.
One of my favourite things around that time what when the guitar player and I both had little Gallien Kruger combos (the older little metal ones - his was 2x6, and mine was 1x12) onstage... Very cool.
Quote: For me, the marshall/mesa halfstack is part of what turns a "show" into a "concert"...
Hmm, not to knock what's cool for you, but the cool part for me is that fella with the plank strapped around him making the right noises.
No one ever says "Did you watch Steve Vai's amp during that solo?" (I don't actually recall exactly what he was using when I saw him....)
Mar 19, 2007 08:01 pm Yeah but it's different for musicians than for "regular people" man, you gotta keep that in mind.
Mar 19, 2007 08:20 pm No, not really, just stupid regular people :-)
Mar 19, 2007 09:10 pm Nae need for a stack my man.
I own a Marshall JCM2000 TSL122... 2 x 12 100W all tube and loud as hell!
Man, its very very cool. Its also very very loud ;-) .... now, I gotta say, if it werent for the VPR switch, I would (honestly) deafen everyone in the band INCLUDING our drummer and he's louuuud.
The power reduction button allows you to crank the valves WITHOUT cranking the volume ... effectively doing what others speak off above - drop the volum to a smaller amp but STILL crankin those 8 tubes!! Ye gotta love it man!
I love it for sure. I have a mate, who has the same amp - he has a bandmate who has the stack version of hte JCM2000 ... SAME darn amp, he reckons (as does his bandmate) his TSL sounds better...when ye get into stacks ye get into heads and cabs which gotta really match to sound good, then the speakers inside the cab ... it gets messy.
I have 2 (different) speakers in the TSL ... 1 x vintage Marshall and 1 x something else which, I canny mind ;-) !! Anyways, stock sound is immense, loud as hell and with 3 channels I could never ask for any more ... all totally independent EQ, totally independent volume/fx etc ... it is indeed, with the exception of my Gibson, my most treasured possession!!!
Cheers
Coco.
Mar 20, 2007 12:34 am dB - "No, not really, just stupid regular people :-)"
But regular people *are* stupid! :p
Mar 20, 2007 06:03 am touche'
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Mar 20, 2007 09:59 am WoW! This one went on one long trip and never left the farm :)
TallChapAnswer:On a good day, lipstick.Member
Since: Jun 24, 2004
Mar 21, 2007 06:35 pm Coco! Where ya been, man? Good to see you here!
Okay, I've changed my mind, you will need four 200w tube heads, and eight 4x12's to even approach being able to play live.
All amps must go to 11.
};oP~
Or, just plug a SansAmp Tri-AC into the mixer. Sounds just like a Plexi, and fits in a gig-bag.
zekthedeadcowEat Spam before it eats YOU!!!Member
Since: May 11, 2002
Mar 22, 2007 12:20 am just make sure you get 24bit tubes :)
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Mar 24, 2007 09:59 pm Kind of late here, but image does not always have to be what others think. I won't even get into my playing days or time on the road as it does not pertain to this thread really. But I will relate what I have seen many times over in these days. Take some heavy bands with big guitar sounds I have been to shows of. Korn for instance, big wattage head playing through one 4 x 12 cab. I have seen Dimebag with both Pantera and Damage plan. Pantera, big wattage head and one 4 x 12 cab. Damage Plan, big wattage head and one 2 x 12. The list goes on, but the sound is the same either way, a wall of cabinets or just one 2 x 12. Their sound never changed, just the amount of gear that is sitting on the stage.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Mar 26, 2007 01:24 am Good to see you Mr. Noise! Always, and I mean always a pleasure!
I couldn't agree with you more. Mike, the gtr player I work with in Cry Eloise has a little 2x12 combo and it has just tits tone. No need for anything else. Mic it, DI, it, your choice and it will just kick some royal donkey. The drive circuits are set up in such a manner that you can get a fine overdriven sound even at very moderate levels, making the thing as at home in the studio as it is on stage.
Now bass is a little different critter. I wouldn't record or play live with anything less than my 6x10 column, although I must admit I have heard a couple of Hertke 2x10's that were pretty damn close, especialy when miked and broadcast through a house system.
CptTrippsCzar of Turd PolishMember
Since: Jun 20, 2006
Mar 27, 2007 01:52 pm Hahaha Zeke, very clever indeed. You know some poor sap is going to be looking all over zzounds and ebay for those darn elusive 24-bit tubes!!!
TallChapAnswer:On a good day, lipstick.Member
Since: Jun 24, 2004
Mar 27, 2007 02:17 pm But they only sound 16-bit on CDs.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Mar 27, 2007 10:22 pm Hey Walt! I did mean to state is was good to see you around again. I do agree bass can be a little bit of an animal. I know dB was very happy with the Ampeg rig he had. But indeed I have heard a couple of those little Hartke 2 x 10 set ups one with an SWR driving it and it sure sounded good. Pretty loud as well for a couple little speakers I thought.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Mar 28, 2007 09:19 am Hartke impressed me at the Detroit Jazz Festival. Some dude used one on a upright, miced to house and the tone was increadable. Upright is a lot harder to 'reproduce' for an amp than the bass guitar.
TallChapAnswer:On a good day, lipstick.Member
Since: Jun 24, 2004
Mar 28, 2007 10:49 am At the risk of a hijack, (based on Noize/Walt lovefest)...
If you have a chance to see/hear the DVD of Richard Thompson on Austin City Limits it features Danny Thompson (no relation) on upright bass. The sound is UNREAL. Not sure yet how the accomplished it - other than Danny Thompson being a genius. Listening in 3/2.1 gives me goosebumps. 'Easy there. Steady now' is dynamite.
One of the best bass sounds onstage I ever had was my ABG through a little Fender Princeton. It was a folky thing, so I wasn't exactly cranked. However, the sound was awesome.
I do like those little Hartke cabs. Very nice.
I'd never go back to an 8x10 set up (although my Orange Matamp rocked).
Mar 28, 2007 02:47 pm Saying kids don't care how you look on stage is like saying stage lighting is pointless. It's all about looking huge. If kids think you look huge, they assume you are and thus, for the same reason radio/MTV works, you will sell more records and people will think you're a better band. The talent, ability, and great songs must also be there yes, but looking huge is being huge :)
CptTrippsCzar of Turd PolishMember
Since: Jun 20, 2006
Mar 28, 2007 02:56 pm As sad as it is, you speak the truth :(
But that is in regards to someone trying to "make it big" with the masses. Someone who does not have a unique sound that cannot be heard elsewhere.
But then you have guys like Jack White, just a rad singer/songwriter who is very unique and has mass appeal to musicians and non-musicians alike.
I think a stage show is quite important, as is looking professional. But these bands doing back flips and guitar spins don't have quite the same affect on me when spinning their CD.
I hate MTV, I remember when music was good because it was. When bands were ugly as hell and it didn't matter. Ahhhh... those were the days.
Mar 28, 2007 03:47 pm Well, yes and no. Just 'cause you're a unique, talented band, doesn't mean having big amps & stage lights will make you a sell-out/bad band. That just doesn't make sense. Sure, they can act as amazing polish on an unbelievable turd; if you've got a sweet band, why not try to entertain people at your shows as well!
(Although I vehemently disagree about Jack White's appeal: honestly, I hate his music with a ridiculous passion haha)
CptTrippsCzar of Turd PolishMember
Since: Jun 20, 2006
Mar 28, 2007 04:34 pm I never said that it makes you a sell out (and even said stage show is important), I'm just saying it's not the only thing being offered. Where as some bands with nothing to offer but their "look" and some generic crap rely heavily on it.
Jack White and his banjo bits on cold mountain were awesome imho.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Mar 29, 2007 10:08 pm Indeed you are correct in that respect. But there is a whole other world out there that doesn't require the biggest baddest rig on the planet to get attention. Playing good and sounding good are all that matters. I only mentioned a couple of guitarists above but there are hundreds more like them that don't need or require big rigs to make the sound they make. But a show is a show if you are doing the arena thing indeed. But even then there are lots of heavies that don't use a big ring like that anymore. They know the sound does not rely on that alone these days.
I personally like seeing the Jack Whites of the world for their stripped down sound and show. The music comes through so much clearer and takes center stage with them. Not the lights and rigs and glitz and glamor. And I do know about glamor having been through that stage when I still performed live. Those days are gone, hopefully for good.
Mar 30, 2007 01:48 am There's definitely something about just a guy and his amp on stage, especially when he's brilliant. I guess I'm just one of those guys who goes to the concert for the show, and buys the CD for the music (mostly: if you play shitty live it ruins the show, that's for sure! But it's harder to hear mistakes and easier to see lights/stacks/running around :) )
CptTrippsCzar of Turd PolishMember
Since: Jun 20, 2006
Mar 30, 2007 11:44 am Hehe, definitely harder to hear mistakes with a full band onslaught. I am always loudest to myself of course when playing live, and I pay way too much attention when I don't do something 100% correct, all the while thinking I've ruined the show and everyone heard. Then afterwards when talking to people I realize that they did not hear it and I am just freakin over nothing. Then... the next show comes, and I'll do it all over again :)
calvinisright9Hindu Not Hitler !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Member
Since: May 28, 2007
Jun 13, 2007 02:39 pm I was watching tv and SNL was on and the band was using what looked to bea 8" VOX for guitar and everybody else had no bigger than 1 12".
Jun 13, 2007 03:22 pm I think the only rule I know is that you have to have a good "rack" to be a groupie.
TadpuiI am not a crook's headMember
Since: Mar 14, 2003
Jun 13, 2007 03:27 pm And you must also be willing to expose said rack at a moment's notice.
And no, that does't mean having quick releases on your SKB case :D
Feb 08, 2008 05:55 pm Just stumbled across this. I never really experienced anyone having stacks for "show" in all the shows ive played with a lot of bands.. but im sure some people might
My experience has been that id always rather have too much juice and turn down than almost blow out the amp trying to be heard over the drums.
I used a combo in practice and believe it or not if i didnt have it on a chair and stood directly in front of it, the drums could drown me out. So i even used my half stack in practice. It saved me so manhy times playing countless shows with just the singer going through the PA ( parties, small gigs etc) if i had a combo amp i dont thik i would have been heard and would had to have stood right in front of my amp.
If there is a PA then youre ok, but the monitors have to be loud enough ( keep in mind this is if your playing rock or heavy music)
As to carrying it around I had a fender M-80 100 watt half stack with 4 12s and it had two handles and it was fine you just carry it with someone else and its totally worth it.
So I think that you dont "need" one per say to be in a band. But it will be a much better experience to have a half stack if you plan on playing multiple types of shows with a myriad of PA situations.
Feb 08, 2008 06:32 pm yeah i could never hear my combo unless i stood right in front of it.
Feb 08, 2008 06:34 pm Most people that use stacks for show play at a little bit higher level than most of us do or have.
Usually I have found the combos that one can't hear it isn't because of the power, it's because of the location...if you ear was on your shin or thigh you might hear it better...
Feb 08, 2008 07:00 pm i need to learn more about half stacks. i don't really know what they are. my issue is just that bands tend to specify that you have pro equipment, and what they mean by that is that a small combo won't cut it. personally, i found it to be a terrible experience to play in a band through my calf-height peavey whatever amp. i'd constantly turn it up and had the feeling i was ruining the tone or the experience. if you happened to be standing in front, then the tone would be grating and annoying, and if off to the sides you wouldn't hear it. there's video of me, taken from the side of the stage up front, where i'm not audible at all. also then there were problems with volume level between clean and distorted passages.
Feb 08, 2008 09:14 pm hey mang, a half stack is half of a full stack which is eight 12'' speakers and is about the height of a person. Your peavey was probably one 12" speaker. so imagine having 4 of those. thats a half stack. its a cabinet with four 12 inch speakers on it and it has WAY more wattage than little combo amps. it also has the controls in the "head" which sits on the cabinet. the four 12" speakers have a much bigger surface area and the sound just spreads so much better into a room and i could run all over the stage and hear it. alot of people told me to turn down though haha
and now.. presenting...(drum roll)
..the half stack : www.samedaymusic.com/product--MSHMGSTACK1
Feb 08, 2008 09:18 pm Half stacks are not necessarily more wattage than combo amps, you can't make that sweeping of a statement at all...they do have a chance of having better sound dispersion due to having more speakers, but I have often heard VERY loud combos...half stack simply have the advantage of more speakers, and with a slant cab two ofthem are actually aimed up at you.
Feb 08, 2008 09:27 pm Yeah, i thought that may be a bold claim, but ill admit im not a tech guy at all. And in general it seems to me that most combos are around 50 watt and half stacks are around 80-100 watt with some like marshall mode 4 being 350 watt!(right?) i just dont view combos as having near as much juice as that but im sure some fender tube ones do.. but also tube wattage is different.. i heard a 22 watt tube amp that was sooo loud
P.S were you as excited as me that mir beat lesnar?
Feb 08, 2008 09:50 pm Yeah, man, Lesnar was piss-pounding Mir until he made one fatal mistake and got caught...hats off to Mir for still having his wits about him to grab that ankle...it was funny, not too many minutes before the fight I told some guys that the ankle is about the only place on Lesnar that you COULD submit him because he's just too damn strong (he trains up here in MN, I've been at the gym they had him filmed in) his training partners say he's virtually unsubmitable with chokes, armbars or other standard fare...then, sure enough, ankle lock!
Yeah, the single 12 combos are usually smaller, you get in to some of the twin 12 combos though and you can have some pretty loud amps
Feb 08, 2008 10:16 pm Use a killer 40 watt amp and mic the sucker. If you feel the need to have the visual impact of "stacks," make some out of particle board, paint 'em up nice and pretty, and point them toward the audience. Just remember to build them to be lightweight, so you don't injure yourself.
The crowd and the sound guy will love you for it too.
/drummer's comment
Feb 09, 2008 12:02 am i have no need for visual impact, i just want cheap things that do what i need them to
this thread is so old, i dont even care about this right now, haha
Feb 09, 2008 12:46 am You should wear a straw hat onstage
Feb 09, 2008 12:59 am haha
HuePinnipedal Czar (: 3= Member
Since: Apr 11, 2004
Feb 09, 2008 05:08 pm Yer killin' me .
The Crate 120w half stack I just picked up is only slightly 'louder' than the Crate 50w 1x12 combo I have next to it, although it does disperse differently... less focused than the combo . They're both as loud as they need to be, with the clean volume at around 75%, and the gain'd channels set relative to that . Niether will 'replace' the other, as they each have very different gain/tonal properties .
I only have an example of the 50w 1x12 combo available to offer, which is the LOG Jam song in my profile . That recording was done live with a very loud backline going on in the same room, so...
CptTrippsCzar of Turd PolishMember
Since: Jun 20, 2006
Feb 09, 2008 07:38 pm I use a 2x12 Vox Valvetronix combo amp. At the last show we played I turned it to 1/4 volume. We were not mic'd.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Feb 09, 2008 08:30 pm For me there is nothing like a good rack on stage to catch my attention. As far as a stack is concerned, I rarely see one that fits the occasion. Clowns with double monster stacks in a 25 person bar look....well...you know. On a big stage, i.e. outdoor concert who can tell! God there's nothing but a wall of speakers.
Regardless, after about five notes the story is told, unless ya got a good rack up there. Then who cares.
HuePinnipedal Czar (: 3= Member
Since: Apr 11, 2004
Feb 10, 2008 01:31 pm Yeah Walt, a nice rack is hard to keep your eyes off of . Especially if it's stacked . Oh !
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Feb 10, 2008 06:55 pm Now granted most play through the best FOH systems but look at some of the big guns out there. Eric C., Stevie Ray, Carlos, Satch, and many others. Most are playing now or at one time through a 2 x 12 combo. Granted, not your run of the mill amp, probably all boutiques stuff. But they did it and got great sound. In most clubs around here a half stack is more then enough. And even a single twelve will do when its micced.
Dematrixhttp://www.reverbnation.com/2ndgMember
Since: Nov 27, 2007
Feb 10, 2008 07:31 pm man how long is this topic? i needed a cut lunch just to get to the end of it.
A really good combo amp if ya interested is the Peavey 6505 combo amp.
excellent for the sort of music you said you were doing. 100watts of valve and an awsome clean distortion. not to mention the perfect size too. people can say what they want about how small it looks on stage in comparison to a big assed box, but when they hear it...end of conversation. its not the size that makes it loud enough, its the tone quality.
I've played through one a few times, still dont have one yet though. they try to slug you over here price wise. gonna wait a bit longer see what happens with that. they want $2500AU.
Pretty bloody pricey.
TadpuiI am not a crook's headMember
Since: Mar 14, 2003
Feb 10, 2008 08:09 pm Quote:
its not the size that makes it loud enough, its the tone quality
Exactly! That's the million dollar answer right there! Roddy, tell the man what he's won!
Why he's won a lifetime of being chums with sound guys across the nation, he's won the ability to sound better than all of his friends at jam sessions because his friends can't crank their 100-watt 4x10 stacks loud enough to drive the power sections into breakup, and he's won an extra decade of walking upright from the heavy lifting involved in gigging with a stack!
:-D
Although 100 watts, even in a combo, is insanely loud. It just throws off your stage volume without an attenuator. I'll probably never gig again but if I did it would be with a 15-30 watt tube combo for sure.
Dematrixhttp://www.reverbnation.com/2ndgMember
Since: Nov 27, 2007
Feb 11, 2008 05:43 am ooh, i feel all special like.
I play metal so im not gonna go too small...but, if it was "metal" to use a small amp geez, i probably would. mad not to.
Gotta have that metal image on stage though. you know how it is? lol.
This topic may crack the big 100 in posts. i havent been a member long. has there been a topic to crack the century yet?
Feb 11, 2008 07:31 am this is an old topic. the first time around i didn't feel like i understood any better, and i still feel that way. people are saying that combos should be fine, but i know that in practice i could never hear myself. i'd prefer to stick with a combo. anything small. i hate lugging stuff around. i wish we didn't even need amps.
Feb 11, 2008 08:16 am I stopped worrying about "being metal" or image type junk once I figured out that the only people that actually care are the participants...the audience really only care about drinking, having fun and good loud music...only other musicians care about the amps, guitars, mics and crap being used.
It's a self-inflicted expense...
As far as not hearing yourself, 99% of the time the problem there is placement.
Feb 11, 2008 08:28 am but then i think others can't hear me. for example one time we were recording a show and the camera was closer to the bass. almost no guitar on tape at all. the people who were sitting over there could probably barely hear me.
Feb 11, 2008 08:40 am It's been my experience that the person closest to an amp on stage often hears it the least. In some rooms myself and the guitarist I am playing with would put our amps by each other...then we'd hear them better ourselves. It's all about wave forms, and how long it takes for a wave to fully develop.
Especially in the case of bass, it take a good few feet to full develop and dies slowly, whereas highs develop quickly and die quickly...which is why the back of the crowd can hear bass better...and the horns need to be up over the crowd, so nothing is in their way and making them break up any earlier.
As far as what a microphone on a camera picks up...well, I won't bother touching that.
Also, what about the PA? Your amplifier should really only be necessary for stage monitoring, not FOH use.
Feb 11, 2008 05:35 pm db we never played a show that had a working PA. we never were at that level. every band i've ever been in has made it no farther than their fourth show before breaking up.
Dematrixhttp://www.reverbnation.com/2ndgMember
Since: Nov 27, 2007
Feb 11, 2008 07:16 pm in regards to what DB said, that people dont care, i think you are right in a sense, but i think the way we perceive music is totally different to the way the crowd does.
forty says people dont hear him... they do. firstly, i think they hear you, but dont even know it, as they dont have an ear like a muso does and secondly most of them just hear a song as a mass of music coming at them they dont hone in on specifics, like clarity and what the rhytym guy or bass guy is doing, or how he is set up etc.
Vox i think would be the main thing they would relate to and just the overall sound of the music.
but hey thats only my perception of "them". im one of you guys remember?
as DB said placement is the key and i would say eq. but alot of the time if ya dealing with one of those "Professional" mixers, and i use the term loosely, there's not much you can do about eq.
Usually if the sound is not bad i wont say anything. one does not wanna annoy the mixer!
Over here, there are alot of try hard desk boys. they smash up the top end and pull out all the mids on your hard earned and expensivley obtianed guitar sound. With my new band im hoping we can get a mixer of our own to mix us at gigs, someone that knows metal.
Feb 11, 2008 09:36 pm if you play guitar you wanna be sure the audience is hearing you as you would want to hear yourself if you were in the crowd. if someone plays through my amp and i'm standing there in the crowd listening, i still think it sucks.
HuePinnipedal Czar (: 3= Member
Since: Apr 11, 2004
Feb 11, 2008 10:34 pm Having an amp that sounds good, cuts through the mix(tonefully with good volume), and is possitioned properly are the three keys to the kingdom . Y'a don't 'need' a stack, halfstack, or combo to be in a band... y'a just need to know what you need to know . If you feel any of these conditions aren't being met to it's fullest potential, then tweak away, but seldom does having one of the three requirements filled, make one satisfied... two would... maybe . ; )
Dematrixhttp://www.reverbnation.com/2ndgMember
Since: Nov 27, 2007
Feb 11, 2008 10:54 pm If you wanna big, powerful guitar drive though, there are definatly limits on how small an amp you would use.
its just basic common sense.
Im using a 60 watt peavey at the moment. it sounds good n all but ya just dont get the drive up louder. it lacks a thickness and response time. that being on about 6 pushing 7 on the volume and playing metal.
Recording though its ok. still though, you need quality with any amp you buy. recording wise ya tend to have the lack of response time and clarity ie; speaker noise and buzz in a cheaper amp.
my Peavey is just cutting it being a 60watter, if i bought a mesa in a similar wattage, obviously the quality is better. more pricey.
TadpuiI am not a crook's headMember
Since: Mar 14, 2003
Feb 11, 2008 11:59 pm Quote:
every band i've ever been in has made it no farther than their fourth show before breaking up.
For ****'s sake forty, it sounds like you need a therapist, not an amplifier!
Feb 12, 2008 03:25 am i cracked my cone, i think, by trying to get the damn thing loud enough.
how about maybe some amps are just not loud enough to really use in a band without a PA? the idea makes sense to me.
Dematrixhttp://www.reverbnation.com/2ndgMember
Since: Nov 27, 2007
Feb 12, 2008 06:12 am i dont know what sorta amps you've used but if ya cant find one loud enough man then you might wanna turn down the rest of the band. nothing should be that loud.
fair enough a 20 watter isnt gonna be enough, a 60w plus should get ya started.
i noticed you said you've used a bass amp for guitar. yeah look the bass amp wont last long with distorted guitar runnin through it loud, the speakers just arent made for it, you will eventually kill it. thing is with amps, if you use it for the wrong application you stuff up the voice coils inside the speaker increasing the need to keep turning up the volume and driving the amp harder n harder till ya kill it or the volume just isnt there anymore.
you can use P.A. systems only if you mic it up a cab or amp, you cant run a distorted guitar directly into it, it will die quicker than the bass box.
plus ya never gonna get a good sound thru it alone. the speakers just arent made for it.
Same goes for under powered cabs. eg: running a 50 watt head through a 100 watt box, you'll find you'll have to keep turning it up and up till you fry it. it certainly wont perform how its suppose to tone wize.
then there's the whole correct ohms thing. wont get into that.
As for the cone thing, thats just a dust cap and shouldnt be detramental to you box although its not the ideal thing to happen. glue that baby back up.
Sounds like ya thrashin piss through the amp thats why ya sound isnt how ya want it. mate of mine just killed his 50 watt marshall head running it thru a 200 watt crate box and it sounded like turd the whole time...dunno what he expected.
what are ya running? box n head etc.
Feb 12, 2008 06:40 am i don't use a bass amp for guitar. i have a peavey amp--i don't know the wattage, but it's either 50 or 60 or 100 probably. it's one of those early 90s mass market ones that comes up to right below your kneecaps, one speaker. i used to occasionally split my signal, sending it to both the peavey and an old bass amp, so i could get a clean layer underneath the distorted, but the peavey was always the main sound.
the peavey had some damage to it, i guess from playing it too loud. you know, when it gets all messed up sounding.
i'm not making this up. this all happened. certainly some of you have experienced it before. this is wack, man. those amps are only good if you're going to be micing them up and going into a PA, which, like i said, has never been an option for me. and practices were always hard, too. we never had a PA at practice either.
Dematrixhttp://www.reverbnation.com/2ndgMember
Since: Nov 27, 2007
Feb 12, 2008 07:19 am i've never heard of anyone needing to mic stuff up at a rehearsal.
forget that i say.
sounds like you're amp is fried. hard to say till i know what the wattage is.
If ya playing loud heavy stuff a little 50 watt peavey aint gonna cut it. you'll never get it past 35.
Especially if everyone else is cranked through the roof.
if you are all too loud, man, it wont matter what amp you get you'll never get the clarity you want..you'll blow ya ear drums out before that happens.
I know, i've been there..you learn.
sounds like you want an amp wid some kick *** drive.
that's where its at. vloume is nothing without drive.
Orange, Mesa, Randall, Valve driven Marshall.
my advice if ya buyin head and box. keep them paired up dont buy a good head and then a crap box or even a different box..unless you match the wattage and ohms. thats essential.
CptTrippsCzar of Turd PolishMember
Since: Jun 20, 2006
Feb 12, 2008 12:42 pm Yeah, it just takes one guy who has to be louder than the others. We have one of those, I turn up so I can hear myself and he turns up again.
I forced them to do a soundcheck one day and used the same process as I do an initial mix.
Make the drummer play like he's going to.
Bring the bass up.
Then the vocals.
Then guitars.
If something is too loud it is then quite obvious.
Dematrixhttp://www.reverbnation.com/2ndgMember
Since: Nov 27, 2007
Feb 13, 2008 03:23 am i reckon the amp quality, if its crap, is the start of everything going to ****.
the dude turns the amp on, it sounds like turd, all scratchy like,
then someone else turns up coz that amp kills the tone of everything else,
it keeps going full circle again and again, till you cant hear the poor ol drummer up the back somewhere.
If all that noise was a dust cloud you wouldnt be able to see the drummer.
By that time ya thinkin, man this band really blows.
TadpuiI am not a crook's headMember
Since: Mar 14, 2003
Feb 13, 2008 02:24 pm One thing to remember is that guitar amps aren't designed for sound dispersion...they're kind of made like a cannon. It only fires in one direction. Wherever the speakers are pointed, that's going to be its dispersion pattern.
PA speakers, on the other hand, with their horns and larger speaker arrays, are made to disperse sound.
So at practice, point your amp so at least you and the drummer can hear it. Then at shows, mic the amp and put it thru the PA.
Oh and that amp is probably a Peavey Bandit. I remember those 1x12 solid-state things being everywhere in the early to mid 90s. Not exactly a raging machine of excellent tone nor volume from what I remember. Definitely mic that puppy up...don't try to rely on that single 12" speaker to provide the entire audience with the guitar parts at shows.
Feb 13, 2008 03:19 pm that's it, yes, it is a bandit.
as i've said, though, just pointing the amp in a certain direction in practice won't cut it, and my bands have never had the fortune to play a show through a PA, so it looks like this kind of amp is not good for me.
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Feb 13, 2008 03:22 pm I remember those. Man, they were great back in the day. Loud as heck, and got distorted too =).
60 or 65 watts, IIRC.
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Feb 13, 2008 03:24 pm I bet that traynor 2x12 80watt would fill a place. sound great too =).
HuePinnipedal Czar (: 3= Member
Since: Apr 11, 2004
Feb 13, 2008 04:14 pm I have one of those Peavey Bandits... more like tone-bandit . Yeah, it's loud, though I could never make it sound good . Mine developed a weird rattle that I can't seem to locate within the framework... only comes out when cranked . Oh well .
TadpuiI am not a crook's headMember
Since: Mar 14, 2003
Feb 13, 2008 04:31 pm I've got a Traynor 80-watt 2x12 and I can personally vouch that its freakishly, terrifyingly, obnoxiously loud :)
But any tube amp over 30 watts or so is going to crush just about any solid-state amp out there as far as sheer volume. Those Fender HotRod Deville/Deluxe 40-watters are so loud you can't even be in the same room with them when cranked. Same for the VOX AC30, just the loudest 30-watter ever. Then when you get into that 80-100 watts of tube power, you can't even be in the same neighborhood as the amp when its cranked without earplugs!
Thank heavens for THD and their HotPlates :D
Tone Bandit LOL
Feb 13, 2008 06:21 pm yeah the rattle--my bandit developed that too.
Dematrixhttp://www.reverbnation.com/2ndgMember
Since: Nov 27, 2007
Feb 13, 2008 08:46 pm Im using a Peavey studiopro very similar to the bandit. ok for recording if you havent thrashed the turd out of it.
But yeah for rehearsals its as about as effective as a 10watt practice amp.
Forget it.
They dont got the nuts. the volume yes, but the sound is thin, real thin.
So its sounds like its not loud enough.
Its there but its just getting hammered by other better thicker sounds.
Having said that though, if your jammin in a crapy room with no deadening or stuff on the walls, i dont think it matters what amp you got it will just sound like mayhem up loud.
Feb 13, 2008 09:44 pm yeah i dunno, the tone sounded ok to me, not thin. but i haven't played it in a long time, and never paid attention to tone until recently. i always used a distortion pedal instead of the internal distortion, but i have to say i liked that peavey distortion too. the thing just didn't put out enough sound.
Dematrixhttp://www.reverbnation.com/2ndgMember
Since: Nov 27, 2007
Feb 13, 2008 10:49 pm yeah, i always use a pedal distortion, the amp distotion is usually rel scratchy with stuff all gain.
when i say thin i mean when its up loud and compared to a bigger box or cab.
Check out the Peavey 6505 combo in my profile brother, its tube driven.
I thought it was 100 watts but its 60.
Being tube driven though its as loud as loud can be and clear, with nuts and drive n all that crazy stuff you thirst for.
more than adequate for what you want.
geez i wish they were as cheap here as they are in the states.
$1199.
Dematrixhttp://www.reverbnation.com/2ndgMember
Since: Nov 27, 2007
Feb 13, 2008 10:59 pm its in my photo's
HuePinnipedal Czar (: 3= Member
Since: Apr 11, 2004
Feb 14, 2008 04:36 am Quote:
yeah the rattle--my bandit developed that too.
That's not an issue I would expect to develop across a whole line . These things are built like tanks, too . Weird .
CptTrippsCzar of Turd PolishMember
Since: Jun 20, 2006
Feb 14, 2008 02:10 pm Last band I played through a 2x12 bandit, I thought it was pretty kickass actually.
HuePinnipedal Czar (: 3= Member
Since: Apr 11, 2004
Feb 14, 2008 03:59 pm It was that 'extra' speaker .
Dematrixhttp://www.reverbnation.com/2ndgMember
Since: Nov 27, 2007
Feb 14, 2008 10:07 pm if its a 2x12 geez that should sweet..
must be fried.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Feb 15, 2008 10:06 pm When I had my modded Soldano Hot Rod 50 on a 4 x 12 it was painfully loud. But it was one of those amps that could retain its tone even at lower volumes, so you rarely had to turn it up. Only time I ever had to crank it up a bit was at outdoor events.
Feb 16, 2008 06:46 am wow you had a real soldano? that was like my favorite amp model in the POD. i can't get any of them to work right, of course--because of that damned high-mid problem that is never going away anytime soon. but i liked the character of that sound a LOT.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Feb 16, 2008 11:11 pm forty, are you using the 2.0 version of the POD? I can't remember, but if you are I may have some tweaked patches that might help you get started solving that high -mid thing.
For me it is a matter of turning the presence down or completely off as I think that is part of what drives the high-mids to be unpleasant sounding.
But the Soldano, ya I loved that amp but after deciding to leave the live scene I simply didn't need or have the room for it. And I was so stressed out and just wanted everything out of my life that was related to a musical past at that point.
Now I wish I had not parted with it, even though it might not get played that often as the PODxt and UX-2 are tweaked out and give me a killer Soldano sound. It would still be nice to have one good live amp.
Feb 17, 2008 05:29 am yes i use the 2.0, i think. wanna send me the patches? that would be awesome.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Feb 17, 2008 09:31 pm Cool, I'll take a look and see if I still have them. If so I'll put em up for you to grab. I won't get a chance to look till tomorrow, but I'll post back here if whether I find em or not.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Feb 25, 2008 08:29 pm forty, I still have one drive to look through. I have not come across them yet.
Feb 26, 2008 04:06 am thats ok, if you find them cool, but no rush. if you can't find 'em that's cool too.
JDODBrother Number OneMember
Since: Jan 22, 2008
Feb 26, 2008 03:31 pm My Peavy Bandit is past its 10th birthday and still fine and that has included gigging in pubs and clubs in the past. Great amps.
Mar 04, 2008 11:44 am go play through one of these at your local GC.
www.musiciansfriend.com/p...tack?sku=481188
i think its right up your alley. i was very impressed with it and the price is reasonable. you could buy just the head and get 2x12 cab.
Mar 04, 2008 05:50 pm sounds great. bookmarked.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Mar 19, 2008 12:55 am No stack needed for bars. A body guard is a good idea however.
Dematrixhttp://www.reverbnation.com/2ndgMember
Since: Nov 27, 2007
Mar 19, 2008 10:31 am just today i was muckin around with my 6o watter and managed to get a great sound for recording, so much better than i thought it could possibly do.
so im not so eager now to go get something else.
actually turning a fair bit of distortion off the pedal has made it so much clearer without losing any gain at all.
TadpuiI am not a crook's headMember
Since: Mar 14, 2003
Mar 19, 2008 11:27 am Quote:
actually turning a fair bit of distortion off the pedal has made it so much clearer without losing any gain at all.
I warms my cockles every time I hear a guitarist say that :)
Dematrixhttp://www.reverbnation.com/2ndgMember
Since: Nov 27, 2007
Mar 20, 2008 10:04 am not sure i've heard the above term before.
Its a good thing?? i hope.
must be, coz it definately made a difference, ohh the tightness, its so, well...tight.
can hear a nice amount of clarity of string sound if that make ant sense???
zekthedeadcowEat Spam before it eats YOU!!!Member
Since: May 11, 2002
Mar 20, 2008 10:52 am a..uh.. ancient saying for 'heart warming'
TallChapAnswer:On a good day, lipstick.Member
Since: Jun 24, 2004
Mar 20, 2008 11:29 am Quote:
Silence; I kill you.
Bwahahaha!
I love Achmed.
TadpuiI am not a crook's headMember
Since: Mar 14, 2003
Mar 20, 2008 12:20 pm Yeah I think the entire saying is "it warms the cockles of my heart", but it sounds kind of dirty in the truncated form so I prefer it :D
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Mar 20, 2008 09:12 pm
Mar 29, 2008 01:18 pm Holy crap this thread has gone on for a REALLY long time!
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Mar 30, 2008 08:47 pm Yes it has.
Dematrixhttp://www.reverbnation.com/2ndgMember
Since: Nov 27, 2007
Mar 31, 2008 12:39 am may it roll on!!
Oct 18, 2017 05:47 am Deleted By dbmasters
Feb 11, 2008 01:10 pm 
