Alright guys, it's time for another "what do you recommend" post!
Home > Home Recording Forum > Gear Gab > Alright guys, it's time for another "what do you recommend" post!
Posted on Jan 16, 2007 12:28 am
[ins]anarchist
Master of the Obvious?
Member Since: Jun 29, 2004
I've decided I love recording/mixing way to much to be doing it as seldom as I get the chance to. I have... THE ITCH! You know, the one that makes you mix for 8, 12, 18+ hours a day while you forget to eat/sleep? Well I've had it, I've got it, and I can't stand ignoring it any more. Now here's what I've got so far:
- a home-built computer w/ P4 3.0Ghz HyperThreaded, 1GB ram, and way too much hard drive space
- a pair of M-Audio Studiopro 4's (soon to be replaced by KRK Rockit 5's 'cause I'm getting 'em cheap!)
- a pair of Sony MDR-V6 cans
- an M-Audio Delta 1010
- a mediocre 24-channel Behringer mixer with channels that occasionally decide to go out until you blast the gain for a measure or so, then work fine for hours
- 8 x 20ft. XLR cables
I know what you're thinking, "but wait, there's no mics!". Well, that's the point I've been working up to: a bit backwards, I know, but I've always had buddies to borrow the odd SM57/58 from, and I've kind of been putting it off until I had some actual income. Welp, I'm ready to get a good group of decent mics that'll at least get me started recording a full band (not all at once, mind you). The key word will probably be versatility (e.g. tom mics that also work for guitars, like 57's or something similar), as I've got only around $1000 - $1,500 to play with for the entire set of mics. What I've thought of so far is:
A Kick mic, enough 57's for three toms & a snare, two condensors for overheads, & a decent vocal mic that could possibly double as a room mic? I've got a small understanding of the various mic types, but only a small one. I know condensors require power and are good for cymbals & non-close-mic guitars, and 57's are good for close-up guitar mics and possibly toms. I also know kick mics are a special breed that usually stink for everything else but bass guitar.
Anyway, get as general or specific as you want in terms of recommendations :) I want to start making decent-sounding demos for local bands, and work my way up until I can afford a decent space to work in/call home (e.g. not a carpeted practice space at 2:00AM so nobody else is practicing in the adjacent rooms!)
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Jan 16, 2007 05:29 pm www.zzounds.com/a--884907/item--FEN2160500400
$400. This is a great deal, and you can't ever have enough 57's!
www.zzounds.com/a--884907/item--RODNT5
$400. A great pair of matched condensers for overheads as well as acoustic recordings.
www.zzounds.com/a--884907/item--ELVRE20
$400. AWSOME vocal mic, especially in a *live* vocal recording, and very versatile on instruments. "Acoustic Strings, Brass, Guitar Amp, Kick Drum, Snare, Speech, Toms, Woodwinds". This was the main vocal mic Kurt Cobain used on "In Utero" It's next on my list. (hope to have one by the end of the month)
With a mic budget of $1,500m that'll leave another 300 for more 57's, something dedicated for bass cabs, or maybe a large condenser if you want to go that route immediately.
Of course, that's just my opinion, optimised for the way I record (generally live). You may be looking for a radically different approach.
Jan 16, 2007 05:48 pm Haha, I think that first link might not have been the one you intended :p You probably meant the "three 57's and a kick" package I've been looking at with a keen eye. One thing I forgot to mention that one might think I'd need would be a good single-mic pre-amp for vox/acoustics, as the preamps on my behringer can give me sh*t from time to time, and vocal performances are sometimes one-in-a-million, and I'd hate to lose one due to crappy preamps.
Thanks for the advice so far, keep it up! :D
Jan 16, 2007 10:19 pm Sorry about the bad link, I think I meant to post it in another thread......(insert ******* smiley here)
But yeah, you know the mic package I was talking about. Beta 52 and three 57's...that is a pretty good deal outside of finding some used.
As far as pre-amps go, I've heard absolutely nothing but great things about the RNP. It's a *budget* pre that really rivals some of the big boys. It's a two channel, too, if you want to record anything in stereo.
I'd already have one if I weren't stuck with my crappy Korg stand-alone with its internal pre's I can't route around...
Best of luck with whatever you buy!
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Jan 17, 2007 08:59 am I second the recommendations above, the 57's aren't well known for nothing, though there was a post here last week about tom mics that put them as better than the 57s, but I wouldn't know for sure.
I've gotten the nt5 myself, and like them. I've not put them through paces yet, but the little stuff I've done is very good.
I've heard good recommendations about the at4040, for the price, and don't think you could go wrong there. I'm not sure how it would compare to the RE20, but it's worth a look.
Keep in mind too, that room characteristics will make a huge difference in your recorded sound, specially with drums. Unless you're in a real good room, plan to tweak the room acoustics, to tame down your room waves, and such.
TadpuiI am not a crook's headMember
Since: Mar 14, 2003
Jan 17, 2007 10:34 am If I were to put together a list of mics to satisfy most of the basic needs of recording a rock band, it'd look something like this:
- At least 1 rugged cardioid dynamic like the SM57. These can be used on snare, guitar cabs, wind instruments, backup vocals, putting under the short leg of the table to balance it out, to hold the door open, etc.
- a pair of good SDC mics. These can serve as drum overheads, acoustic guitar mics, a second mic on a guitar cabinet, hand percussion.
- A kick mic that can be used on kick drum and bass cabinets.
- A good LDC that can be used for vocals, acoustic guitar, and as a room mic for various instruments.
Then you'll definitely need a couple of good preamps. No sense in having nice mics if you're just going to feed them into a Behri mixer that doesn't work half of the time.
Well, those are my general suggestions. I won't get into brand names just because I don't have much hands-on experience with different mic brands. But those different types of mics that I mentioned would definitely be a good start for tracking rock bands.
Jan 17, 2007 12:03 pm Thanks for the help guys, definitely some good advice so far!
Tadpui- I know you said you don't have much experience with different brands, but what have you used personally and what are your feelings on them? I'd like to have as many personal reccomendations/reviews of specific mics as possible to get a good idea of what people have used and what works/doesn't :D
*edit: also, someone mentioned room acoustics being a large part of the drum sound. If I don't have a large, awesome-sounding room for great natural acoustics, would a nearly dead room be my second best choice?
TadpuiI am not a crook's headMember
Since: Mar 14, 2003
Jan 17, 2007 02:53 pm I own a few MXL mics and a Shure SM57.
For the MXLs, I own a pair of 993 pencil-style SDC mics. They cost me $150 for the pair and they've really impressed me as far as budget mics go. They're not going to win any awards for sound quality, but they've exceeded my expectations as drum overheads and they sound pretty good on acoustic guitar as well.
I also have a 990, which is a medium diaphragm condensor. It is what it is, a budget entry-level mic. Its terrific when you consider it only cost $60, but I can't really recommend it to anybody that's planning on charging money to record bands. I'd suggest sinking at least a couple hundred dollars into your LDC since its one of the most important elements of a project studio.
But the Shure SM57 is one of those must-have mics. Sure there are mics that sound better on snare, sound better on vocals, sound better on guitar amps. But nothing combines the low cost, durability, and versatility of a SM57. It's a mic that you'll own until you die. I'd recommend one of these to anybody.
But also check out the Sennheiser 421. Its another versatile (but pricy) microphone that I see raved about more than any other mic. People swear by it on guitar amps, snare drums, basically anywhere a SM57 can be used.
CptTrippsCzar of Turd PolishMember
Since: Jun 20, 2006
Jan 17, 2007 02:57 pm My NT5's were $305 shipped off ebay. They are quite gorgeous.
Jan 17, 2007 04:35 pm Great price on the NT-5's!
I'll second the Sennheiser 421. It gets compared to the EV-RE20 ALOT for its versatility. From what I've read, though, the EV really shines on vocal tracks (at least in a live situation). Less proximity effect, or something along those lines. I'd love to have one of each, someday.
And yes, by all means, don't skimp on the pre-amps. A great pre-amp will make even a budget mic sound good, where a Neumann running through a bad pre is still going to sound "not great".
And one other thing, I've heard great things about Studio Projects' line of LCD's, and they're priced very reasonably. I've never used one, myself, but know a lot of people that swear by them, for the money. ZZsounds doesn't sell them anymore, or I'd put up a link.
CptTrippsCzar of Turd PolishMember
Since: Jun 20, 2006
Jan 17, 2007 05:04 pm Yup SP has tube LCD's for what? $200-300? That is awesomeness served up with a heaping spoon of awesome.
Although they are no K2, ooooohhhhh!!!
Best Regards,
Rode Fanboi
Jan 18, 2007 02:13 pm LCD's? Wait a minute, wtf is an LCD? (assuming you don't mean liquid crystal display...)
CptTrippsCzar of Turd PolishMember
Since: Jun 20, 2006
Jan 18, 2007 02:19 pm Oops, LDC, large diaphram condensor.. :)
Jan 18, 2007 02:45 pm Haha, that makes more sense! :p
So based on what I've learned and what you guys've said, a good basic setup would be:
3-5 SM57's for all-around work (toms, snare, guitars, etc.)
1 nice Bass Drum mic (also good for bass guitar)
2 nice condensors ("SDC's" right?)(matched pair) for overheads and 2nd mic on guitars
1 nice all-around vocal mic ("LDC" right?), also possibly good for a room mic
sound about right? In addition, I'll probably want a nice little mono or stereo (tube?) preamp for vox and other nice things
CptTrippsCzar of Turd PolishMember
Since: Jun 20, 2006
Jan 18, 2007 02:53 pm Nice indeed. That is almost exactly what I run.
3x Tom Mics (crap)
1x Kick Mic (crap) (Can't wait for new one, D4 probably)
1x Snare Mic
2x SDC Oh's
1x LDC Vox/Room
I have a 57 lying around but it is well abused. I also have the SDC cheapos from my audix set, the behringer SDC's and an OM2 for live Vox.
Damn, I need to sell some stuff.
I bought that ART Studio V3 and record my bass, guitars, and vox through it. I feel it was worth my money and they are only?... about 80$ I think? Good single channel tube pre.
I also have 4 tube channels of behringer (2x2 channel Ultragains for 100$!!) that I run for kick, snare and OH's while my toms go through my mixer.
Jan 18, 2007 04:47 pm Damn, I wrote "LCD", too.....GOOD ONE!
I mean well, but sometimes fall on my face. It's frustrating.
meltdown5Faze 2 StudiosMember
Since: Aug 15, 2005
Jan 19, 2007 09:03 pm I would definitely give the RODE nt5's a look. They are small condensers and work flawlessly on drum overheads. and acoustic guitars.
-melty
Jan 20, 2007 11:51 pm Melty - I'm sure they're very nice haha, but $400 for condensers is over my budget!
Update: I just bought a KSM27, and I can't wait to use it!
