MTV awards/anniversary

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Administrator Since: Apr 03, 2002

OK, so the awards just happened and it's the 25th anniversary...everybody praised it as a good thing...

Now, I suspect it's just me, but I find MTV to be one of the worst things to happen to TV, and there is hopefully a special place in hell for those that created it and continue to market it.

The damage it has caused to now 3 generations of children, glorifying drugs and violence, objectifying women in a horrible way...and last but not least bringing music to a horrible low in terms of quality by marketing practices against everything music should be.

To you, MTV, I say go away, and don't come back.

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Prince CZAR-ming
Member
Since: Apr 08, 2004


Sep 01, 2006 12:17 pm

Ha, good point.


Cone Poker
Member
Since: Apr 07, 2002


Sep 01, 2006 12:28 pm

MTV was cool when it was actually about the music videos, but now it's crap, and should be stabbed in the kidneys.

Answer:On a good day, lipstick.
Member
Since: Jun 24, 2004


Sep 01, 2006 01:49 pm

I'll agree to a point...
On one hand, you have the MTV that plays music videos, and gives us the latest music. If you object to the content of the videos, then I must argue a case that these videos are an art form - love it or hate it. You cannot censure the videos without doing the same for the music. Because you don't like a genre, or style, or video, does not make it any less valid as an art form.
On the other hand, the useless "Reality" show angle adopted by MTV is abhorrent to me. That's where they lose me. So long as it's about music, and videos, then I'm okay. If it's wet t-shirt contests and spring break stuff it's useless for anything.

Prince CZAR-ming
Member
Since: Apr 08, 2004


Sep 01, 2006 02:13 pm

That's kind of a hard point. (regarding some mainstream videos)

If art is glorifing 'capping' some dude, or selling drugs, or whoring around, then I can have issues with it. Not that I'm saying I can (or should) censure it, but I can have issues with it. And if beauty is in the eye of the beholder, then art is also in the eye of the beholder: it's art for me if I say so.

Now what to do with this point is a pickle. Should there be stricter time slots for stuff like this? maybe. But I think parents should be responsible for their children's viewing. I know my kids weren't watching stuff like that.

We used to watch VH1 Classic once in a while. They were totally baffled by the 80s =).


Re-reading this, I came up with a conundrum.

If a parent doesn't block kids from watching immoral stuff on TV, then does society as a whole have a responsibility to watch out for it's own greater good?

Or is that leaning on socialism?

Seems that kids that grow up without good parental direction, often develop into troubled people. Kinda like being able to hurt themselves or others. Is there a greater issue here?

(just spouting out thoughts, on a pre-holiday friday)

Cone Poker
Member
Since: Apr 07, 2002


Sep 01, 2006 03:01 pm

I think it's up to the parents. TV isn't a babysitter. If you don't like what your kids are watching don't let them watch it. That's my stand.

Prince CZAR-ming
Member
Since: Apr 08, 2004


Sep 01, 2006 03:02 pm

But you can't force parents to be moral. That's my question. What if the parents aren't controlling their kids viewing.

Answer:On a good day, lipstick.
Member
Since: Jun 24, 2004


Sep 01, 2006 03:06 pm

I get your point, pjk, and well put (for a friday...geesh what a week...).
I do believe in the power of the 'off switch.'
You don't like it? Turn it off.
You don't want your kids watching it? Turn it off.
You don't like the content of the video? Have a problem with the artist/director - not the medium by which is was presented.
Should there be time slots for certain content? Yes. Absolutely. Difficult in these days of satellite feeds and differing timezones, but doable.
Showing something for the sake of art is completely acceptable. Repeatedly showing something because its contents are controversial is trashy, and all for ratings.
I'm rambling now....do you get what I mean?
If you don't like something, then you should avoid it. Society is not responsible for your dislikes.
If you hate fish, complain to someone, and then suddenly no one in the nation is allowed to eat fish anymore it's unfair.
Censoring certain media for the sake of a few is wrong. We have a responsibility to protect ourselves, and our kids, but we do not have the authority, or the responsibility to protect other people from what we, ourselves have a problem with.

By the way, that's not socialism. Socialism is about the people and what the people want (not necessarily "what is good for them"!).

I really get very angry when I see small groups make decisions for the masses. But that's a whole new thread....and a big can of worms.

Prince CZAR-ming
Member
Since: Apr 08, 2004


Sep 01, 2006 03:17 pm

I think it's still not the same as what you're meaning.

I get your point, if I don't like maplethorpe, then by all means I won't go look at it.

What I mean, is when there's socially degrading content, available to kids, and the parents don't get involved.

Parents that

1. don't care what their kids watch,
and
2. don't explain what the difference between real life, and tv box reality.

I guess I don't have much problem with kids watching socially degrading material, if the parents explain the differences, and show both sides of an issue.

But I'm questioning the families that don't. The parents ignore the kids viewing habits, and don't talk to the kids regarding what they're watching.

If statistics show that this type of in-activity by the parents leads to less stable adults, then can society get more involved.

I guess this is a big can of worms by itself. I certainly don't want to tell mr and mrs smith what to do with their kids, as I wouldn't want someone telling me what to do with my kids, but on the other hand, if society starts slipping, and this issue is a big factor, then can society get more involved.

Sheesh, what a sentence =). sorry about that one.


Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Sep 01, 2006 03:27 pm

You forgot option #3, parents don't keep up and don't know what's out there in the firstplace..."oh, they are just watching music videos"...not realizing how raunchy some of them are.

Yes, it is "art", but I see no room for supporting an "artist" that encourages and/or glorifies criminal behavior, chemical abuse, ***** slappin your ho's and cappin your rival...

Society should watch out for it's own greater good, when that line goes from basic morality to socialism is a fine line tho, admittedly.

Answer:On a good day, lipstick.
Member
Since: Jun 24, 2004


Sep 01, 2006 04:30 pm

right....but...er....

MTV is not to blame in any of those situations. It's a television channel. Sure the networks have a moral responsibility to provide some level of protection, but they also have the right to show what they like!
The artists, and the video companies, and directors, and the record labels (hooo no....I'm not letting them off the hook) are the one's who produced the video. Do they not have any responsibility? Sure, they're "artists" (hoisted by my own petard?), and should have freedom to express themselves. The "policing" of the actions of these people goes back to the parents....etc. etc. etc.

Don't hate the newspaper because you don't like the news.

For those parents that really don't care, MTV is not the problem. It's just one very small part of a much bigger problem. .

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Sep 01, 2006 04:34 pm

Oh, the artists absolutely have responsiblity, but they are not alone...and I personally have worn very tired of "expressing themelves" as a reason...

Why are only bad things "self expression", why are only kids with nose rings and tattoos on their faces "expressing themselves, why can't someone "express themselves" in a suit?

Yeah, yeah, hate the game, not the player...

www.TheLondonProject.ca
Member
Since: Feb 07, 2005


Sep 01, 2006 05:02 pm

Another question is at what age should your children be allowed to make their own decisions what to watch? I have 3 daughters 13, 14, and 16. Fortunately none of them really watch MTV. Sometimes they will watch the "Top Ten" something list but otherwise they don't watch it. My 14 y/o is into country so she doens't watch it at all.

Anyways, I hate the crap they show on MTV. I can't watch it with my daughters without feeling uncomfortable so I'm glad that they don't watch it anyways or I would ban it from our household.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Sep 01, 2006 05:22 pm

I would say it depends on the kid, I know a 15 year old that is smart and well behaved who I would trust to make decisions, then again, I know a couple 35 year old that still shouldn't be allowed to.

Country it seems, really isn't that much better than rap/hiphop/pop music, just more subtle...sometimes.

www.TheLondonProject.ca
Member
Since: Feb 07, 2005


Sep 01, 2006 05:32 pm

Ya, I agree with both points. Country is a bit tamer but it could be that it just hasn't gotten to the same point yet.

Unfortunately this is not limited to MTV. There are a lot of shows out there that are just plain bad news. I find that some cartoons are worse than MTV.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Sep 01, 2006 05:34 pm

true enough.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Sep 01, 2006 11:09 pm

Well, first I'll say happy birthday to MTV. Although I did that in another thread on the day after its actual 25th birthday after watching VH1 replay the entire original first days broadcast.

Now onto the reality of it all. And I'll use a couple of harsh words.

Todays MTV literally SUCKS period. There is rarely anything being played on there worth even watching. Now remember this is coming from the old guy who listens to Slipknot as well as Mozart and everything in between. Except new country, I wont give it the time of day. Except maybe the Dixie Chicks. But there it is right there. The Dixie Chicks, why because they look good. And OK their music isnt real bad and whinny. Its just pop music with a little country twist to it.

But MTV has become just another blatant commercialised network teleivsion station. And I completely agree with the fact that they do play 80 percent of nothing but I wanna be a gangster rubish. Glamorising a bunch of drunken stoned thugs with gold chains around their necks and clamped to their teeth. If I'm gonna watch music videos, I now turn to VH1 classics. Its the only station just playing music videos and documenteries of the bands that once were. And most of the videos are from the heyday of MTV. Granted, MTV owns pretty much all the video music channels, except maybe Fuse out of Canada.

I hate MTV for the same reason I hate commercial radio. A tiny little playlist of whatever the giant record companies want to shove down the publics throat. And I do mean tiny playlist.

As for the influance on the kids, ya I agree a parent can turn it off. But what about the kids who had parents that never bothered to really be a parent. And yes I include the parents that were always there for the kids and gave them everything, blah blah blah and on and on.

The one thing they didnt do for their kids was show them the differance between reality and glamorised crap that is the fad of the day.

I have been the dreaded parent for so long. Why, because I let my kids see and hear everything. Nothing was off limits, and the people they have met have left their mark on both boys. Tuna, the kid who dresses differantly every other day and has a differant hair style every few months. Why, becuase he doesnt want to be like MTV or anything else. Ray, the kid who as well dresses differantly and loves to wear the most missmatched clothes he can find. And has also worn a mohawk since he was 4 years old. Not by my choosing but his own. Yes, his mohawk was definately influanced by several hardcore punk friend's of mine, but he has choosen to keep it as it is his little signature.

To me a haircut is the least of the worlds problems so that is one freedom their mother and I will never take away. And dressing their own way. My kids have never really gone for the trendy new stuff. They prefer to shop at a place like Ragstock or other used clothing place were they can get worn out or odd or just wierd clothes. To them, not being like everyone else is being cool.

So back to MTV. I as well watched the awards last night. About the only thing good on there I saw was Jack Whites band, The Raconteurs playing into and out of the commercials from a small spot on the side of the stage. Even Lou Reed found it more entertaining to sit in with them then. Pitty that MTV didn't open their eyes and realise that that was more real then the hyped crap they gave awards to and let play in the spot light. Even the one harder rock band that won an award, Avenged Seven Fold is more of a corperate hype then anything else. And Panic at the Disco, more like Panic of the lead singer who couldn't hit a good note to save his butt. Sorry to say but I didn't see anything on that show that would convince me to go buy any of the performers recordings.

But there is tons of good music here and all over the web. So who needs MTV anyway, other then the corperate world that stripped it of its originality and made it just another commercial crock of ****!

I KNOW NOTHING
Member
Since: Jun 08, 2006


Sep 09, 2006 05:15 pm

Bravo.

Member
Since: Jan 18, 2003


Sep 10, 2006 03:04 am

i liked videos, back in the day. but now you cant find them, and you can't find them in one place, and oh yeah: they all suck.


Member
Since: Jan 18, 2003


Sep 10, 2006 03:06 am

did lou reed say something about rock music on the show? i heard he said something...

www.TheLondonProject.ca
Member
Since: Feb 07, 2005


Sep 10, 2006 12:04 pm

Thankfully there is YouTube now and that is all I watch now for music vids. I have no time for MTV and it's T&A.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Sep 10, 2006 12:32 pm

I heard YouTube is nothing but a huge money pit...I dunno how long it will be around based on whyat I read, but I also read Bill Gates is looking into providing a similar service.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Sep 10, 2006 05:56 pm

I have noticed that myspace as well is gathering a huge collection of videos both old and new. It must be generating some kind of income for them or they couldn't provide it. They have a huge library of videos and just music for users to put on a player in their page. I'm not exactly sure if it is provided directly by the myspace team or an outside source, but Tuna and Ray both use it on their pages.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Sep 10, 2006 07:12 pm

Oh ya, forty. Yes indeed Lou was very stern about the use of the word rock when refering to some of the acts that won. In fact in a couple of the spots in the after show interviews he made some sassy comments about that as well. And the look on his face in response to a couple of the questions was as if to say to the interviewer "are you an idiot or what?"

Answer:On a good day, lipstick.
Member
Since: Jun 24, 2004


Sep 11, 2006 09:33 am

Without taking away from the validity of the posts above (all very good!), I must just note that I'm struck by the thought of time... Were this thread available in the days of Elvis (don't film below the waist!), The Beatles, Marc Bolan, The Sex Pistols, etc. it would read exactly the same. The views of the day on these artists were pretty much along the same lines. I'm not saying that the thug/gangsta type stuff will be immortalized as classic stuff, just that perception is the key factor. I personally hate the whole rap/gold teeth thing.

I am amazed at how infrequently I become excited about a new artist. There seems to be very few new sounds. I wasn't happy with the eighties due to all the dross that was being pumped out, but there were many more bands that seemed to have a fresh sound. These days, I keep asking my 15 year old daughter, "Who's this?" and I'm surprised that every time it's a new band. Same song/sound, though. Give me something new.

Argh, I've turned into my parents......

This is why I love HRC, you guys rock. Loving your music.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Sep 11, 2006 09:47 am

Oh, true, there is always someboyd pushing the envelope of commonly accepted rules of decency or morality...

Hell, to my parents KISS was the worst thing in the world...then came Ozzy! Almost made them melt...

Hold 'Em Czar
Member
Since: Dec 30, 2004


Sep 11, 2006 12:02 pm

ok i'll chime in, good thread indeed...

first off, i heard there was an award for "best ringtone" WHAT THE ****!...that about sums up the validity of these awards and the obsurdity of it all.

second, alot of these 'hard core' type of artists may glorify the lifestyle but most don't even come close to livin' it...it's all hype.

i have a friend who is mentaly 'disturbed' and she's a "cutter" she likes to cut herself...but when we get to recording, she literally vents on paper instead of herself, sure the lyrics are about shootin' her boss, and cuttin' her ex's throat out, but she'd NEVER do any of that stuff.

so for some artists, it's almost like tharapy...Manson wanted to push the publics buttons, that IS rock-and-roll, it's not meant to make you feel warm and fuzzy, it's supposed to be harsh and brash, and test the publics tollarance for such things.

i am of the school of thought of "no things taboo" the days of swear words accually being distasteful are numbered, there's too much free speach out there....sad thing is because of that, we're loosing a very powerful way of expressing ourselves verbaly...the sheer shock of a lady saying G.D really meant something and was a true expression of anger...now middleschoolers use it everyday (and some parents let them)...i say F it, it's just a word like female breasts, it's a damn shame we (men) can go topless without anyone really givin' a crap, but for a female, noooooo boobies are dirty. what the hell??!!! i say let 'em out!

as for the gangsta/booty/more money in my mouth than in my savings type of crap...well, we sold it to ourselves and we bought alot of it. it's our own damn fault it's become acceptable, and it's a self perpetuating (sp?) cycle that's tried and true, and as long as there is money to be made, people will do it.

that type of hiphop IS the new rock-and-roll....it's no different than the 60's hit "my baby does the hankey-pankey"....same message, different times.....i say let the idiots show their intelligets on tv for all the world to see, and let the people who buy it show theirs...it's all the parents fault, not society's.

and it'll fade in a generation or two anyway, and they will all laugh at us (as a time) much like we look back on disco or 80's pop...

but the art IS indeed in the eye of the beholder and the creator, and to that i say, don't hold anyone back from anykind of expression, no matter how volgar.

Prince CZAR-ming
Member
Since: Apr 08, 2004


Sep 11, 2006 12:15 pm

hee, i just remembered back to a thread dB started, saying his friend stated that the Bobby Brown show was not indicative of the African-American culture.

heh, heh, made me chuckle, that one did.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Sep 11, 2006 12:19 pm

Yeah, that same buddy said they took away Bryant Gumble's membership card.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Sep 11, 2006 12:26 pm

whosyourdaddy00, you speak like somebody who truly isn't raising kids. I use to be pretty open about such things too, but since I have had kids and am trying to raise them to be intelligent, moral, honest people that can express themselves without resorting to vulgarity and treat everybody with respect until they have shown they don't deserve it.

Having mainstream society fighting against my goals at every turn is very frustrating when popular music refers to girls as bitches and ho's while trying to raise my girls to respect themselves and know they deserve that respect is very difficult.

See what I am saying here?

I do totally understand the therapeutic part of song writing, that I totally get, but it still doesn't help my particular cause.

Pinnipedal Czar (: 3=
Member
Since: Apr 11, 2004


Sep 11, 2006 01:24 pm

I've found that the sociological problems that this MTV(crap) supports, doesn't really hold water until a "good kid's" "bad peers" get ahold of it and turn the fantasy into reality that is somewhat appealing for them... i.e. edgy/rebellious/sexy . The bigger challenge is keeping the respect of your kids enough for them to believe and trust you, that when you tell them something is crap, they wont waste their time believing otherwise(or even entertain the idea that it's a valid way of expression) . This starts way before they even are interested in MTV(crap), and becomes more difficult as they begin to explore the 'boundries' of what they are as their own person .

Turn your back for one moment, and that is all it takes... no reason to blame MTV, kaids will find something else to test the boundries with .

Frustrating is a light term for sure when it comes to watching the delicate balance tip in favor of the grease-ball on the screen . More dangerous than hang gliding without lessons, in the eyes of a caring parrent .

BUT this is old news, and I think that this is more of a thread that dB started(and rightly so) to say that in the 25 years MTV has been out, it sure has gone down the tubes as far as it's entertainment value is concerned . Remember "I want my MTV !" A ludicrous statement today .

WYD... kids ?... Gods help us all ! ; p

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Sep 11, 2006 01:40 pm

Yeah, I hear ya Hue, but where did the "bad peers" come from, and where did they get their influence? The bad ideals set forth by MTVer's could propogate beyond the watchers themselves...

Now, nobody get me wrong, I have no intention of being that parent that sues Judas Priest cuz my kids does something stupid while listening to their music, that's on the kid and on me. I don't expect society, and the school system to raise my child, that's my job, however, I don't mind not getting help, but when it not only doesn't help, but hurts or makes my job harder, that's when I get pissed, ya know?

Pinnipedal Czar (: 3=
Member
Since: Apr 11, 2004


Sep 11, 2006 01:50 pm

Tru dat, G !

(crosses arms, and pouts with fingers splayed in unknowable sign-language) lol

The bad peers come from fams that deal with this exact problem the wrong way, and around here they out-number the good ones .


WYD, you know I'm just kiddin'... you'd make a great dad !

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Sep 11, 2006 01:53 pm

Like a friend of mine once said (speaking of handling it the wrong way)

"MTV - it's easier than parenting."

Hold 'Em Czar
Member
Since: Dec 30, 2004


Sep 11, 2006 02:05 pm

no, no...i am quite content with my kid brother supplyin' the grandkids for my parents...i tried gettin' my boys clipped when i was 21 and the doc said i couldn't just do it cuz i wanted to...i've got to have atleast one kid or have something medicaly wrong with me...i was quite shocked..cuz yeah, i do NOT want kids..ever. not my cup of tea, i'm the cool uncle and that's my thing. great with kids for a few hours, but i HAVE GOT to hand them back....i excersize a personal responsibility that quite frankly pisses me off that others don't....alot of people my age (27) have kids and really don't need to be...the parenting skills of kids my age are absolutely retarded...i have to read to my friends kids, cuz he dosn't....f all that crap, i'm dooin' society a favor by not reproducing.

all claims subject to change if i ever change my mind, maybe in 10 year's i'll think differently, until then i'm not havin' kids until i'm ready.

btw no offence was taken

Prince CZAR-ming
Member
Since: Apr 08, 2004


Sep 11, 2006 02:49 pm

I think I was 26 / 27 when we had our first ones.

Yep, keep yer options open, you just may feel inclined to start a family some day (soon) =).

Member
Since: Jan 18, 2003


Sep 12, 2006 02:09 am

it would just be easier if people didn't like crap.

that's all.

there's no reason for some of today's popular stuff to be so popular. i dont know about you all, but i could always tell when something was genuine and when it was faked and all hype. i tended not to IDENTIFY with bands who were fake. i might like a song or two, but if someone is lying through their teeth at me, (and believing that lie, believing their own myth) then i simply see it and i get disgusted, in varying degrees. that's entertainment. it's not something to emulate, because it's total BS.

a lot of times, it seems to me that people do not see that.

on the other hand, you have bands which you know are living a lifestyle or believing in/examining something interesting because they're driven to do so. you can tell that the music and the lyrics are coming from a different place with a band like that. that's the good stuff.

morrison for example. he created his own myth, i believe, and then he lived it. but he did live it. guy lived in hotels and drank himself to oblivion. good lesson? doesn't matter: he was channeling some impulses that--one way or another--had taken root in him, whether consciously constructed initially or not. cobain is another obvious example. his band appeared to be a channel for certain quirky and original sentiments. if he was acting at all, the act became him even before he was famous. totally and completely. and that's a sort of honesty.

contrast these with any fake brooding emo band with a singer who whines about pain and whatnot and then goes home with ten girls. that is a lie, and it's crap.

contrast that also with a band like NIN or manson, or danzig or cooper--bands which consciously create an illusion, and tell you--in interviews--that they're doing it on purpose. also good. that's art, at that point.

what i can't stand is the propensity for kids and teens to mistake playacting for reality. i don't think i ever fell into that trap, and i'm not sure why, but whenever i see someone doing it (especially, for the moment, emo kids, a lot of whom really seem to be living blind within an illusion, or gangstas, who are falling prey to something dangerous) i just don't get it and i feel a little mad that they're the people driving these crapsales.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Sep 12, 2006 02:25 pm

I have to state that this is one of the better threads on this subject we have had in awhile.

Whether I agree or dissagree with any viewpoint it is all relavent at some time or another in our lives. As stated above I have been more then open with my kids, allowing many things most parents wouldn't. With the absolute understanding that I will need to back up any points I make regarding the reality or wrongness of whatever material I allow them to view, or listen to.

As I've stated many time before, the two youngest will listen to anything, and that includes the tug type music I personally dont care for. But they understand it isnt about being part of that lifestyle. They can listen to it for the music, and not the preaching part.

They finally watched a repeat of the awards show and were litterally in tears laughing at the bad performances, the bad jokes and all the uneeded hype. They love real R and B music, and tore the nominees and winner of that catagory up laughing about it not even being close to what R and B is. I agree.

My point is I would not be affriad of the future if all parents raised their kids as most of us here have. Making them understand the good from the bad, the real from fantasy. Even just a majority of parents would suit me fine. But the problem is we live in a time when kids are forced to find out for themselves without any guidance. And that is not a good thing. That is how the bad kids and bad influances suck in what were once good kids and now are betrayed by parents that lack or dont want to use good parenting skills and pay fricken attention to what their kids are all about!

Banned


Sep 14, 2006 10:07 am

MTV started off so great.. what happened? still scratching my head

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