Small portable recording device

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Member Since: Aug 08, 2006

I am new to sound recording and wanted a portable device to record family gatherings (storytelling), friends playing musical instruments and singing, children talking and various environments while travelling. I just recieved an Olympus WS310M digital recorder and ME51S microphone that I ordered from an online shop. Maybe it is just me or I am expecting too much, but the recording results were terrible! The background hiss that is apparent when recording in a silent room is horrendous, and there are faint little electronic noises (artifacts?) apparent in the background. This is at the highest quality recording settings. I can't believe the engineers at Olympus allowed this device to be sold in its present form. I swear my Dad's 20 year old portable tape recorder had less static hiss than this thing. Needles to say I am attempting to return these devices.
Can anyone recommend a device for me that won't create recordings that make a silent forest sound like a beach onto which waves are constantly crashing? I realize you get what you pay for and will sacrifice digital interoperability for quality if need be. I would spend around $US200 (I am in Australia). I wanted to go digital for archiving and editing purposes. Perhaps a little handheld tape recorder with a decent mic might be apt?

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Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Aug 08, 2006 07:02 am

That's too bad you get that bad of recordings, I can't say I am familiar with those devices at all, but there are small devices that can record decently.

I have always heard good things about Zoom's small devices, www.zzounds.com/a--884907/item--ZOMMRS4B which, at face value has much more than you are looking for, but the price is right in your range, plus, you may even find uses for the built in effects and extra tracking options available.

String bender
Member
Since: Unknown


Aug 08, 2006 04:51 pm

I use a Minidisc recorder for all kinds of things. Its last use was to capture outdoor sounds for a video clip I was working on. You also have to watch the input gain when you are recording. My minidisc records with very little noise but with too much gain it will start to hiss. I wish I had something to offer on the Olympus but I have never used that item either.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Aug 08, 2006 09:06 pm

The units dB refered to are very good for what you are looking to do. In fact more then enough.

I as well do a lot of field sampling and like Diemusik I use a SOny MiniDisc to record with a portable self powered stereo condensor mic. I get minimal background noise as well.

Ultra Magnus
Member
Since: Nov 13, 2004


Aug 09, 2006 12:57 am

Aye, i'm another MD user, same reasons, very happy with it.

Prince CZAR-ming
Member
Since: Apr 08, 2004


Aug 09, 2006 08:57 am

I'll add, i used one for awhile, and had very good luck (the sony minidisk). I too used a self powered stereo mic (electret) and it worked great.

I bought a olympus digi voice recorder, and it sucks. Works OK for voice, in a room, but I can't get the files out of it (supposed to work, has usb conn).

Olympus ignored my emails for support.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Aug 09, 2006 09:40 am

Yeah, a MiniDisc would be perfect, I am almost emabarrassed I didn't think of that simple solution...no, I take that back, I am embarrassed.

Member
Since: Aug 08, 2006


Aug 10, 2006 01:13 am

What format would recorded files be created in by a Hi-MD?
I believe they record on the fly to a CD. Is this correct?
These devices are a heap cheaper than say an Edirol R9. Would they create a similar quality sound file to an Edirol or Micro Trak? Would the quality make a Hi-MD suitable for collecting samples for inclusion in music production?
Would a mic different to the one that comes with the Hi-MD be required to record all voices in a large room (eg play, lecture, family gathering)?
Thanks for help provided so far.

Prince CZAR-ming
Member
Since: Apr 08, 2004


Aug 10, 2006 09:18 am

I believe the format is some sort of proprietary format, ATRAC, or something like that. The new ones will let you transfer the file to a PC, thereby converting the file over to a wave, or whatever. Something usable, anyway.

The old ones didn't, and you had to line-out, and record in a different device, to get a wave file on your PC.

They don't use a cd, it's a minidisk. Kind of like a floppy disk (3.5") with a retractable door, and the spinning black media disk, on the inside.

I had very good results with quality of my sony MD (not a HDMD). I wouldn't feel bad about using it to capture usable samples for production work. I'm sure you could get better, but I believe it's at the level that is very workable in most all sound production work.

I used a stereo electret mic - Linky:
www.minidiscaccess.com/item.html?PRID=1155261

and got very good stereo results. I used my md / mic to record a bon-fire a few years back, and used it's 120 degree (instead of 90 deg) stereo mode, and got a fantastic stereo spread recording. Listening to it on headphones, I could place each person talking in their respective place, and the levels were very accurate. Getting distant voices/sounds accurately, as well as close ones.

It also has it's own battery compartment, so you don't have to worry about plugging the mic in to external power. It's self powered (AA).

I'd post a sample, but they all went poof in a house fire, so, oh well.


Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Aug 10, 2006 06:20 pm

Yep, pjk has it right on the ATRAC format. And yes the newer units will export to the PC in wav format for editing.

I do recomend a higher quality condensor mic, preferably stereo for the needs you seem to have. There are many self powered units out there that are great.

I use an older MD as pjk does for sampling and have for years with great results.

Member
Since: Aug 08, 2006


Aug 10, 2006 06:27 pm

According to Sony the MZRH1 uses the following recording formats;
Linear PCM
ATRAC (Record SP)
ATRAC3 (Record 66/132 kB/sec)
ATRAC3 Plus (Record 64/256 kB/sec)
www.sony.com.au/walkman/w...;term=mini+disc

I am not familiar with any of these formats.
Would most software based players recognize these formats? Would a regular CD player in a home stereo system recognize these files? Which is the most lossles format? Can you edit in these formats? Can I convert these to WAVE, MP3, Ogg Vorbis or WMA easily?

Would you select an Edirol R9 over this Mini Disc? I can get the Edirol R9 for about $150 (Australian $) more.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Aug 10, 2006 08:11 pm

Well, I will state that you get what you pay for, especially with samll audio recording gear like this stuff. The R9 got some rave reviews, but I couldn't find much about it other then they liked it. Nothing to describe its sound quality or anything like that.

I guess if you have a local music store to comapre them at I would suggest that if at all possible.

On the inbetween side here the MicroTrac has been getting good reviews as well, and some of those do state the auiod quality is very good. The one thing was battery life on a couple of the users units was not good. But others stated they had no problems.

we prefer "percussionist"
Member
Since: Jul 21, 2004


Aug 18, 2006 03:21 am

I've got a sony portable recorder that's sold in office stores for voice dictation - works pretty good for recording rehearsals (maybe pirating a live show here and there). I use a little plug-in stereo mic with it witch is WAY better than the built-in. There may be some pitch distortion in the high end, but I haven't really run it through any real frequency tests - just when I listen back I keep thinking, "wow I didn't think those violins were THAT out of tune!" Of course, I don't tend to pay attention either. Anyway, it's cheaper than the MD, it's great on batteries, and it's easy to use.

Prince CZAR-ming
Member
Since: Apr 08, 2004


Aug 18, 2006 10:54 am

[quote]I am not familiar with any of these formats.
Would most software based players recognize these formats? Would a regular CD player in a home stereo system recognize these files? Which is the most lossles format? Can you edit in these formats? Can I convert these to WAVE, MP3, Ogg Vorbis or WMA easily?[/quote]

The atrac is only used on the minidisc itself. you wouldn't use it on any other device, except another minidisc.

You would do a transfer from the MD to a computer, which would also convert the file over to something the PC can use, most probably a wav file. From there you can convert it to whatever you want.

< from wikipedia >
There is one major uncompressed audio format: PCM. It is usually stored as a .wav on Windows or as .aiff on Mac OS.
< end from >

I don't know much about OGG Vorbis, but it's open source, so, well, I don't know. Google may help.

MP3 is usually the lowest audio format. It takes parts of the signal out, that the converter doesn't think you'll miss. You can make high resolution MP3, that sounds pretty good, but there's still pundants.

dBPowerAmp, (not affiliated with dB Masters, I think), is fairly well known for being a good format converter.

Editing is almost always done on a wav file. there may be editors for other formats, but I wouldn't use them unless I had no choice.


Member
Since: Jan 09, 2009


Jan 09, 2009 07:17 am

I HAVE JUST RECIEVED A PORTABLE ZOOM H4 WHICH I FIND VERY GOOD FOR RECORDING KEYBOARD LESSONS. IM ALSO THINKING OF STARTING UP A BUSINESS WHICH IS AUDIO RECORDING AT A CREMATORIUM.IM JUST WONDERING IF THE ZOOM H4 WOULD BE GOOD ENOUGH TOO CAPTURE THE WHOLE SERVICE IE-THE PRIEST TALKING,THE CONGREGATION SINGING, THE MUSIC PLAYING ETC.AS THIS WOULD BE A FAIRLY BIG CHAPEL, WOULD IT BE BETTER TO PUT MICROPHONES AROUND THE ROOM AND WHICH WOULD BE THE BEST.MAYBE SOME DIFFERENT TYPE OF RECORDER.ANY COMMENTS PLEASE

Czar of Turd Polish
Member
Since: Jun 20, 2006


Jan 09, 2009 12:39 pm

Minidisc would be cool, the Zoom products would probably kick ***.

Probably overkill but I want either one of these...

www.zzounds.com/item--ZOMH4

www.zzounds.com/item--ZOMH2

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