Switching Away from Pro-tools
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Posted on Aug 01, 2006 06:15 pm
meltdown5
Faze 2 Studios
Member Since: Aug 15, 2005
Heres my story:
I've been using Pro-tools with a digi 002 rack for about a year now, with a lot of success. I really love the sound of the pre-amps on the digi rack, and ive gotten very fond of working with pro-tools. About a month ago I got a new computer for recording (specs will be below) and after a very exhausting road for some reason pro-tools is just imcompatable with my new computer. I can no longer get my money back for the computer which cost $1800, so instead of trying to resell my computer (and losing a lot of money) i though i would just go ahead and sell my digi rack becuase i had already gotten that on ebay for a good price, and i cant afford much right now.
My question is what woudl you guys suggest for multi-track recording that would resemble a pro-tools set up as much as possible. My computer IS a laptop so i cant be adding soundcards which to my knowledge restricts me to USB or Firewire interfaces. I would prefer a Firewire interface jsut becuase they seem like they would be able to handle more becuase of the faster transfer rate. I do not use midi, so its not a must have. My computer has onlt 1 firewire port which my external hardrive now takes up. I used to daisychain my 002r through that, so it would be nice if other things have that option, so i can still have a dedicated audio drive.
I was looking at a firepod, but it seems pretty cheap for what it has. I was wondering how those pre-amps sound..
is there anythign else like a 002rack or firepod/box that comes with software? I want the ability to at least record 8 tracks at one time...
I have around $800 to spend on just the software an interface.
My computer specs:
System
Host Name : IANS
User : Faze 2 Studio's
Workgroup : WORKGROUP
Processor
Model : Genuine Intel(R) CPU T2500 @ 2.00GHz
Speed : 2.00GHz
Cores per Processor : 2 Unit(s)
Threads per Core : 1 Unit(s)
Type : Mobile, Dual-Core
Internal Data Cache : 2x 32kB Synchronous, Write-Thru, 8-way set, 64 byte line size
L2 On-board Cache : 2MB ECC Synchronous, ATC, 8-way set, 64 byte line size, 2 threads sharing
Mainboard
Bus(es) : PCI PCIe PCMCIA CardBus USB FireWire/1394 i2c/SMBus
MP Support : 1 Processor(s)
MP APIC : No
System BIOS : Hewlett-Packard 1.06
System : Hewlett-Packard HP Pavilion dv8000 (EX177AV)
Mainboard : Hewlett-Packard 30A6
Total Memory : 2GB DDR2-SDRAM
Chipset 1
Model : Hewlett-Packard Company Mobile Memory Controller Hub
Front Side Bus Speed : 4x 166MHz (664MHz data rate)
Total Memory : 2GB DDR2-SDRAM
Memory Bus Speed : 4x 166MHz (664MHz data rate)
Video System
Monitor/Panel : Default Monitor
Monitor/Panel : Default Monitor
Monitor/Panel : Plug and Play Monitor
Adapter : NVIDIA GeForce Go 7600
Physical Storage Devices
Hard Disk : ST910021AS (93GB)
Hard Disk : Maxtor OneTouch II Disk
CD-ROM/DVD : HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-4084N (CD 24X Rd, 24X Wr) (DVD 3X Rd, 3X Wr)
Logical Storage Devices
Hard Disk (C:) : 83GB (41GB, 50% Free Space) (NTFS)
HP_RECOVERY (D:) : 9.5GB (1.3GB, 14% Free Space) (FAT32)
Install CD (E:) : 461MB (CDFS)
Communication Device(s)
Device : HDAUDIO Soft Data Fax Modem with SmartCP
Operating System(s)
Windows System : Microsoft Windows XP/2002 Home 5.01.2600 (Service Pack 2)
Network Drivers Enabled : No
My external Hardrive:
-Maxtor OneTouch II
-300gb
-average seek time of 9.0
-firewire 800
-7200 rpm
-Oxford 912 chipset
anyhelp would be really nice...
thanks guys in advance.
-melty
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Aug 02, 2006 06:47 am My first thought would be to find out why the Digi doesn't work...any clues as to what the problem is? Have you asked DigiDesign about it?
The MOTU device reads pretty well www.zzounds.com/a--884907/item--MTU828MKII+ While I don't see what type of software comes with it, if you don't use MIDI Kristal would work www.kreatives.org/kristal/ it's a great freeware multitracking app, the biggest limitation is not having a MIDI implementation yet.
Have you ever thought about, or had a need for a control surface www.zzounds.com/a--884907/item--TASFW1082 for example?
Either Firewire or USB would work...for something like recording 8 tracks at a time I don't think I'd daisychain...
Aug 02, 2006 07:11 am Service pack 2 will not work with ProTools if it is an Older Version
(Windows System : Microsoft Windows XP/2002 Home 5.01.2600 (Service Pack 2) )
I know you bought 002 on ebay and don't have a service support on it.
But I think if you call Sweetwater support and tell them your problem I am sure they will help you out.
www.sweetwater.com
Has a 24/7 online support email try them before sell or spend any money.
Ken Sutton
WaterFall Records,
www.waterfallrecordings.com
Aug 02, 2006 07:15 am interesting...which version of ProTools do you run, meltdown5?
it does say here archive.digidesign.com/compato/xp/os.cfm that TDM and LE 6.7+ is qualified to work with SP2...specifically for the 002, only Pro Tools LE 6.4cs9 or later works with SP2
Aug 02, 2006 10:36 am Db is Right meltdown5.....Iam sorry if I gave you any wrong Info.
But the samething happened to me and SP2 was the problem.
Ken....
meltdown5Faze 2 StudiosMember
Since: Aug 15, 2005
Aug 03, 2006 01:25 am haha, no ive already had a very lengthy thread on the duc (digidsign support forums) and nobody can figure out why it wont work. i have done a list of things to my windows settings that would put up a challenge to speed readers. Im running Pt 7.1 (newest version) on my 002r.
Im still goign to wait a while before i start going and selling everything, but id really like to see whats out there if that is a step i end up taking...
so any other programs you guys have in mind like i asked about in my first post?
thanks for the support guys db and ken. I have a friends whose last name is sutton.
Aug 03, 2006 02:54 am i'm 99% sure you can keep your 002 and use the ASIO drivers as your audio interface with a different program, i know Sonar will recognize it, down side is not extra cash commin' in, but if ya dig the interface, no sense in buyin' a new one.....i'd get into Cakewalk Home Studio (i think) and follow the upgrade chain as you need it....Sonar isn't really 'similar' to protools in a way that'll make it instantly fimillar (i think logic is, but that's mac) but you can do most of the stuff *except for outboard hardware delay compensation* but it's VERY intuitive, espically if you're already fimilar with audio apps.
so yeah, i say drop a few hundred on an entery level cakewalk app, and upgrade when you get the cash later.
and why the heck does the name Ken Sutton sond so damn fimillar to me, i know i've read it somewhere....
cheers
wyd
meltdown5Faze 2 StudiosMember
Since: Aug 15, 2005
Aug 03, 2006 02:44 pm well the thing is i dont really have an extra couple hundred to put into my studio. Im pretty tight on cash and i honestly just cant afford anything at this point. So selling my digi rack an PT is the only chioce i really have.
Are cakewalk home studio and Sonar made by the same guys? or are they as different as say logic and ableton?
What other chioces would i have if i decided to sell my rack?
I predict that this thread will slowly tun into a discussion about Ken Sutton's name. and slowly we are going to give him a really stupid nick name to show our afection for him... something like "SuttonDeath" or something, (sudden death as in overtime)
thanks a lot for the quick replies guys, keep them coming :)
-melty
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Aug 03, 2006 03:20 pm first thing I though of, was the maudio control surface, it resembles the digi-control surface. (i know you had a rack 002, but i still thought of it).
Unfortunately, it's 1250$, so that may be out of the question.
I'd also think the firepod is a good avenue, but the Motu stuff may be better. I'm gonna think that the pre's and converters on the motu stuff may be better than the presonus, though I'm just speaking my guesses on that one.
Sonar and Cakewalk are made by the same company. Cakewalk. Sonar is it's flagship product.
Speaking of, Cakewalk is offering free upgrade to ver 6, plus 100$ rebate on S5PE, and 50$ rebate on S5SE.
Wish I was in the market =)
*edit* Oop, forgot : Ken Sutton ! Ken Sutton ! Ken Sutton !
TadpuiI am not a crook's headMember
Since: Mar 14, 2003
Aug 03, 2006 03:49 pm Also don't forget about EMU's 1616M, which is a PCMCIA interface for laptops. I"ve heard great things about their a/d converters (I think theyre the same ones they use on the Digi). But I think you'd have to come up with some preamps...not sure if it has more than the 2 pres on the breakout box.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Aug 03, 2006 06:54 pm And yes, Home Studio is made by Cakewalk who also makes Sonar. You can always upgrade to Sonar later and they offer very good upgrade prices.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Aug 03, 2006 09:17 pm Well if you want to step into it and be well prepared you can find Sonar 5 PE for arond the $400.00 mark and an 8 channel audio interface such as the ESP 1010 from ESI will run you slightly over $300.00 if you shop right. So that combination will give you much more then the PT and 002 system did for less then your $800.00 limit.
And Sonar 5 PE will come complete with a huge load of some very hgigh end pluggins and a few synths as well.
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Aug 03, 2006 11:19 pm you'd still need preamps.
if you're hard pressed to stay under 800, then you could scale down on the S5PE, and add a mixer. I'm thinking you could get into a behringer for 200 or so, but the preamps won't be like the digi preamps.
Yamaha is making some pretty clean preamps, and isn't as spendy as mackie, soundcraft, or some others. I think peavey is making some good stuff too, though I haven't worked with their new stuff.
ain't it fun ?
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Aug 03, 2006 11:21 pm Oop, just re-read. you've got a laptop, so the ESP1010 would be out.
I'd lean back towards the firepod. I've heard some pretty good stuff about them, but haven't used one.
meltdown5Faze 2 StudiosMember
Since: Aug 15, 2005
Aug 04, 2006 01:28 am Hmmmm, i actually have a yamaha mixer.. a 16/6 (the one with fx) I like it a lot, and i enjoy the mic pre's. something with mic pre's that sould like the ones on yamaha mixers or better would be definaly suitable. does it help to know that i have a mixer? how could i use this to my advantage and shave some off that $800 mark.
it sounds like Sonar 5 PE would be a good app for me. i read up on it jsut slightly and i already liek waht i hear... my question is, what is it compatable with? is it compatable with a firepod?
Its funny, i sort of got sucked into the whole pro-tools thing, i dont really know how everyone else does it, and how everything else works.
just to clairify, does the firepod conect to my laptop through fireiwre correct? and Sonar 5 PE woudl then be able to connect to the firepod, and i jsut plug my mic's/monitors into the firepod and im good to go?
Im pretty sure Kenny S. would sound familiar to everyone, he's only the coolest guy ever.
-melty
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Aug 04, 2006 09:07 am well, you're kinda looking at different angles of the same issue.
to get sound into yer PC, you're looking at certain functions that need to be performed:
sound source -> mic -> preamp -> converter -> computer software.
Now the preamp can be in the mixer, or in a standalone, or in the sound interface.
The converter can be in the mixer (yam mw10, alesis firewire mixers), standalone (apogee comes to mind) or in the sound interface (firepod, ESP1010, etc).
So you see, there's a bunch of different possibilities that can come up.
In your case, your preamp needs are met with the mixer, but you need the sound interface and software. With the firepod, you're spending more, but getting the preamps and converters all in one Firewire device.
If you utilized the yam mixer, you could go with a 1616m from EMU, which I've heard have great converters. That would be 500 for the 1616m, plus $400 for S5PE. So your total could be down to 800.
I don't think the EMU has as many analog inputs, so you'd be short on that.
This would certainly solve your dilemma, but, you wouldn't be very portable.
If you went the firepod route, you'd have all the circuitry in one device, for 600$, plus 400 for S5PE. That's a little more, but you're probably at least as good of quality in preamps, maybe better than the Yam, but the converters may be a little less, or at least equal to the 1616m. But you'd also be more portable.
I suppose you could ebay the mixer, for the extra couple hunnert $$$. To offset the cost of the firepod/S5PE.
meltdown5Faze 2 StudiosMember
Since: Aug 15, 2005
Aug 04, 2006 02:20 pm how do you feel about maybe buying the firepod off ebay? not a good idea? or maybe a good one?
i use my mixer as my live sound mixer, so it i could keep it to that, it would be cool, and it would be nice to have all the circutry in one box.
Aug 04, 2006 02:33 pm ebay sucks ***.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Aug 04, 2006 08:42 pm OH ya, thats right, LAPTOP.
Well and you didi say USB correct.
I'm afraind 8 inputs is a tuff one, and not cheap either in USB or firewire. Your most likely and dependable source would be MOTU. They are so far the most stable of the multi channel USB interfaces.
meltdown5Faze 2 StudiosMember
Since: Aug 15, 2005
Aug 04, 2006 09:44 pm im think im going to go the firepod with sonar 5 pe.
like both the software and hardware...
thanks for all you guys help, hell of a lot nicer then the guys at the Pt forums...
thanks
-melty
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Aug 04, 2006 09:50 pm Thanx for the compliment melty. We do try hard to help everyone here, no matter what the situation. Some of us might be a little biased to the software we use, but it doesn't make a bit of differance in the software you use. Its how you use it.
