Need opinions on new recorded song

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Death Metal Freak!!!
Member Since: Feb 05, 2006

I have done some recording for one song and I am trying to mix it and really have no idea where to begin. You can check out what I have recorded so far here: www.soundclick.com/bands/...m?bandID=481840

The only thing the song is missing is a Bass track. There is one Beatcraft drum track, 2 guitar tracks panned left and two guitar tracks panned right. The three vocals tracks are panned even (in the middle).

There is no FX on any individual track. On the Main FX I used EQ and the Master Limiter. That is the only "mixing" I did. Please let me know what you or anyone who would like to listen to the song thinks and what can be done to make it better.

This is my first attempt at home recording. The style of music is not for everyone but it is what I like.

Thank you...

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Member
Since: Mar 12, 2006


Mar 12, 2006 01:37 am

Okay, first impression: Every time that snare is in the mix as the "4 beats per measure" all I think about is how it's consistently slow; out of time with everything else. The kick sounds cool and realistic, but that one snare/high hat has got to be changed.

As for the mixing, try using some compression to bring it all together. I don't know how hard you have the guitar tracks panned with the exception of that one back and forth riff where they're clearly (and suitingly) completely panned. Usually if I pan a prominent part of a song, I do it about 70 to 80 percent to the respective channel. Vocals don't feel "embedded" in the song. They're very strong and are, in metal, I think better when they're just a little more prevalent than the main rythym guitar part. After all, you're not really trying so create a melody, but more of a texture, if you will. It needs some EQ. Just play with it until you it feels nice and dynamic. Right now it's a little narrow. A little muddy and not alot of range. I would try boosting the higher frequencies, just not to the point where it's harshly bright. Too much midrange fatigues the ear, and in this style, that's a big issue. Try to give it "Balls and Bells." Punchy lows and crisp highs.

Again, Compression if you have it AFTER you mix and EQ.

By the way, nice guitar work!

Death Metal Freak!!!
Member
Since: Feb 05, 2006


Mar 12, 2006 08:47 pm

Hey Jastang, first thanks for the comments on the guitar work.

What part do you feel is out of time. First riff, second riff, third and so on?

You also said " I don't know how hard you have the guitar tracks panned with the exception of that one back and forth riff where they're clearly (and suitingly) completely panned". Not sure what back and forth riff your talking about. The one where I am singing "Killing You"?

Htere are four guitar tracks. My two are panned 100% left amd my buddies are panned 100% right.

So you think the vocals need to be brought out a bit more in the mix? The over sound does seem a bit muddy but I really have no idea how to get rid of that. I am sure there is some noise I need to get rid of as well. Is ther any plugins that get rid of noise or is that done during the mastering of the song?

With the EQ how would I " boost the higher frequencies"?

When you say "Compression if you have it AFTER you mix and EQ", is a limiter a form of compression as well? SHould I be EQing the whole song right now or just each track?

I know I asked allot but if you can answer that would be great. Thank you for your time.

Member
Since: Mar 12, 2006


Mar 13, 2006 01:14 am

What's out of time, or at least FEELS out of time is in the first eight phrases. If you notated the song based on the click-in, they would be eighth notes. It's going back and forth with a little high-hat. It almost sounds backwards; like maybe the high-hat is hitting the beat and the snare is on the up-beat. Maybe if you but the snare on the upbeat it will blend better. It's really hard to express this in words, but imagine if that snare beat where a metronome set at whatever tempo. It would be like the rest of the song is a little faster than the metronome click. In other words, it's just slightly late. When it goes to any other different beat it sounds fine. There's just something wrong with that one loop.

As far as EQ and all that, it depends on what program you're using. Generally there is a graphic eq and a parametric eq. The difference is a graphic eq has several PRESET points in the frequency range that can be raised or lowered. The adjustment to any given frequency effects the frequency above and below to a limited, PRESET extent. This is the kind of eq most are used to. A parametric eq works with three different variables: frequency, level and what's called 'Q'. It's complicated, but a parametric eq is like a graphic eq that you can make your own frequency choice instead of a preset, choose how much of the frequency around it (bandwidth/Q) is effected, and how much all of these frequencies are effected.

So, on your song, it sounds muddy, so you're missing some high frequencies. If you have a graphic eq you'll just have to feel it out by adjusting whatever preset frequencies they have given you. If you have a parametric eq, I would recommend making what is called a "high-shelf" eq for frequencies over, say 10khz for 3db. This would louden all frequencies from 10khz to 20khz (which is as high as we can hear). That is a very broad swipe and should change the character of the song quite a bit. If it's too bright or still too muddy adjust for that. I would then use a graphic eq to fine tune everything in the frequency range. Cakewalk though has a "destructive" graphic eq, meaning that it makes the changes to the actual track for good unless you 'undo' it. A parametric eq will allow you to play with alot of things and is applied in realtime, so it doesn't change the actual track. The key is just to play with whatever you have until you think it sounds good. That's what matters.

A limiter is much like compression with one major exception. You choose a certain frequency that you don't want any one part of the song to go over and it cuts everything out from that level up. With compression, you're doing a similar thing in choosing a frequency range to compress. Wherever you set it, it takes everything above it and pulls down those frequencies at a rate determined my you or the software. It also raises levels that are below at a certain "rate", effectively "squishing" the signal.

You can compress each instrument or you can compress all of the tracks together. This is what gives it that cohesive feeling. It will make a big difference in your recording process.

As far as when to do what with mixing. I would do big changes on individual tracks, and then smaller adjustments to a final mix.

I know this is long-winded but I hope it helps.

Death Metal Freak!!!
Member
Since: Feb 05, 2006


Mar 13, 2006 08:55 am

Thank you for all the great insight. I do have a parametric eq but it really has no levels, it all kind of goes by ear. Do you know of any good parametric eq plug ins that are free?

Again, thank you for all the info and if/when I make any changes to the song I will post here again.


Peter

Death Metal Freak!!!
Member
Since: Feb 05, 2006


Mar 13, 2006 09:07 am

Oh yeah Jastang, this first riff...

It is a basic blast beat, kick, snare, kick, snare, kick, snare, kick, snare. The high hat is on only the kick. Is that what your talking about?

Member
Since: Nov 15, 2005


Mar 13, 2006 01:59 pm

No your blast beat is good, I wouldn't change it. That's how it's supposed to sound, I think it's just a style specific thing that sounds off to people who don't listen to death metal :)
But yeah sounds good, vocals need a pop filter though, as the "B" sounds pop. YOu could cut some lows with a shelf. Also i'd stick with the 100% pan on the guitars... it just gives the biggest and tightest sound when it comes to this genre, that's how my band always has it in the studio.

Death Metal Freak!!!
Member
Since: Feb 05, 2006


Mar 13, 2006 06:37 pm

Hey Sid, "You could cut some lows with a shelf"...Huh? I am totally new to home recording and still learning.

Yeah, I do need a pop-filter. I am trying to fade in some of the poping B's and P's so it dose not sound like it is poping on this recording. If that will not fix it I will need to re-sing the whole song...

What did you think of the song in general since you seem like a death metal fan?

Member
Since: Sep 08, 2005


Mar 13, 2006 06:57 pm

sorry so hi-jack your thread but do people here think that to get a heavy guitar sound are you better off with guitar tracks panned hard left+right with nothin in the middle or should there be a middle track also?

Member
Since: Nov 15, 2005


Mar 13, 2006 09:38 pm

Hey man. What you could try is to basically pull up an eq, and lower the volume of the bass at around 130 and below. Basically, if the eq is a straight horizontal line with the left point being lowest audible bass(20hz) and the right point being the highest audible treble(20,000hz), then the line will start falling at about 130hz until the 20hz low point. SO basically that cuts the low bass out of the eq, and then after that I would add a little bit of treble around 5,000hz (no more than about 2db) to add some clarity to the lows. Maybe even scoop out 2 or 3db in the 240hz-600hz range, which will made the vocals a little less muddy.
In terms of the guitars I think having the vocals eq'd this way, they'll have a little more body. I like hard left and right pan with nothing in the middle because that's what I think sounds the biggest and tightest.
In terms of the track, I think it's solid. The programming is good, as is the playing, and it's written well. Once you put some bass guitar on that and clean up the vocals a little bit the drums will sound a little less synthetic, and I think it'll sound really good. If you feel like getting into it, compression would help on those vocals as well to bring out a little intensity. Anyway hope that helps, and keep us posted.

Just out of curiosity what setup did you use? (i.e. guitars, amps, microphones, etc.)

Death Metal Freak!!!
Member
Since: Feb 05, 2006


Mar 13, 2006 11:29 pm

Hey Sid, thanks again for all the info. I will be trying allot of what you have said over the next week or so.

Would you use compression on the vocal tracks even though I have a limiter on the entire mix? Would the compression tighten up the vocals?

I have uploaded another mix (see the link in the begining of this thread). check it out and let me know if you think it sounds any better. I increased the vocals and drum track just a bit and re-played some guitar tracks. Let me know if all sound good with no distortion or clipping.

Here is what I have so far for my equipment:

Jackson DKGMT Kinky w/EMG
Marshall MG Series 250DFX
Boss MT-2 Metal Zone Pedal
Boss NS-2 Noise Suppressor Pedal
Boss CS-3 Compression Sustainer Pedal
Boss GE-7 Equalizer Pedal
Boss TU-2 Chromatic Tuner

2 Behringer XM8500 Microphones
1 Behringer Eurorack UB802 Mixer
Acoustica Mixcraft Recording Software
Acoustica Beatcraft Drum Machine Software

I live in a one bedroom apartment and do all my recording here. I have my computer in my living room, with the mixer stretched accros the room and two mics from the mixer/living room with 20 foot coards going into my bedroom to mic the amp. I also do all the singing in my bedroom as well. I have a huge 30 foot cable to connect to the head phones so I cna be in my bedroom while singing (or screaming as some might call it).

I am having allot of fun and trying to lear as much as I can. I still ahve SOOOOOO much to learn.

Peter

Member
Since: Nov 15, 2005


Mar 14, 2006 03:18 am

Of course of course. Try all that stuff out, experimentation is key. I like heavy compression on my vocals. Evens out volume across the track but also adds a certain intensity that almost acts as an eq. I compress nearly everything seperately. Kick, Snare, Guitar, Bass, Vocals. For Kick i'll compress just enough to add a little punch, same with the snare. For guitar i'll put a multiband compressor on to get that attack and body. Vocals i'll try to minimize external noise so I can compress heavily without creating loud background noises in the track as well. Limiting is safe, but i'd work with each track, getting them all to sound good and work together. You do this by pulling up an eq for a track, setting a narrow range, and boosting the crap out of the lowest bass frequency; slowly sweep this eq boost up through to the highest treble. By listening to this sweep you will hear which frequencies/ranges are the best sounding and worst sounding for that particular track. Then cut about 2-4db out of the bad frequency areas and leave the good frequency areas the way they are. Remember it's better to cut eq than boost, and if boosting, only do so by a small amount. This will allow the track to have primarily it's good natural characteristics without coloring its best areas by adding an artificial eq, but the cuts in bad areas won't add any color, just pull out what isn't good anyway. Basically do this for all the tracks and get them to compliment one another. For example, say the kick drum sounds really good at 120hz and below, 2khz-3khz, and 8khz-8.5khz; also say the guitars sound good at 200hz-300hz, 800hz-1.5khz, 5khz-6khz, and 10khz-15khz. Leaving these frequencies and cutting the rest by about 3 db will make it so the two tracks when played together have good sounds coming out at almost the entirety of the frequency range(20hz-20khz). Where one is cut a little, the other is normal, so that it seems "boosted", and vice versa. THis may be way too much info, but it's basically like you try to eq everything so that each track has a couple good sounding solid frequencies, and all of the tracks frequencies put together make one big song that doesn't overlap in too many frequency areas, and the whole frequency range is covered. It'd be like looking at a mountain range in which 15 different mountains all line up side by side with their peaks about the same height and their slopes merging together, so if you squint your eyes it looks almost like a flat line. Each instrument and vocal will sound present and full without being loud. To illustrate, this figure:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ looks a lot like -------------------------
THat probably makes no sense, but hey, it's late.

Death Metal Freak!!!
Member
Since: Feb 05, 2006


Mar 14, 2006 07:50 pm

The EQ settings for the entire mix are as follows:

0, +2, -1, -2, -1, 0, +3

That is if you were looking at the EQ (I home it makes sence).

I used this pre-set setting as it is called Punchy Mix and seemed to sound good when I put it on the whole song. Maybe that is a bad way to EQ, I have no idea.

You say to "cut about 2-4db out of the bad frequency areas and leave the good frequency areas the way they are". How do I know how much I am taking out with a 7 band EQ?

You also say "For example, say the kick drum sounds really good at 120hz and below, 2khz-3khz, and 8khz-8.5khz; also say the guitars sound good at 200hz-300hz, 800hz-1.5khz, 5khz-6khz, and 10khz-15khz. Leaving these frequencies and cutting the rest by about 3 db will make it so the two tracks when played together have good sounds coming out at almost the entirety of the frequency range(20hz-20khz). Where one is cut a little, the other is normal, so that it seems "boosted", and vice versa." How would I know what is what with the 7 band EQ I have.

I know I am more than likely asking to many questions and should read some books or something first. This **** is complicated.

Thank you...

Death Metal Freak!!!
Member
Since: Feb 05, 2006


Mar 14, 2006 08:02 pm

So Sid, you use compression on each and every track?

Member
Since: Nov 15, 2005


Mar 15, 2006 03:30 pm

I typically leave my master eq flat and eq the individual tracks instead. I compress nearly everything if it has a bit of dynamic range, which makes a sound go from loud to soft and in between, making it change it's relative volume in the mix as the track plays. The numbers you listed for your EQ settings are more than likely db measurements, so +2 is the same thing as saying 2 db louder.If you have just a simple 7 band eq then your options are much more limited (the frequencies will be fixed, and you can only change the volumes of 7 set frequencies). Solo a track and toggle each of those frequencies up and down to see what sounds best to you. DO the same for all of the tracks, one by one, and that should help out some. If you can find a parametric eq, which is an eq that allows you to select not only volume to increase or decrease frequencies, but allows you to actually select the frequency, as well as the frequency range (width) in which the boost will cover, also called "Q", then you will have much more luck. I know it's complicated, but it's fun, and it's an art. There is no such thing as the perfect mix because any engineer is constantly trying to improve his or her ability. Remember to have fun with it, most importantly and use your ears. Sometimes when I make changes to tracks, i'll close my eyes while I modify the parameters to ensure that what i'm changing sounds good instead of looks good.

Death Metal Freak!!!
Member
Since: Feb 05, 2006


Mar 15, 2006 09:15 pm

Thanks agian for all the help. I am going to keep working at it...

Death Metal Freak!!!
Member
Since: Feb 05, 2006


Mar 18, 2006 12:37 pm

I have added a bass track now as well. It was only my second take playing the bass track. I am going to do a much tighter played track this weekend. I jsut wanted advice it you think it helped the song/mix.

www.soundclick.com/bands/...m?bandID=481840

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