Mar 11, 2006 11:07 am Very cool, great sound (even with the loss of bass). Lots of intensity. What synths/software/instruments are being used? Is that two guys vox or one doubled? Kind-of spacey tune... X-Files... enjoyed this immensely!
A little hip-hop from the studio
Posted on Mar 10, 2006 11:33 pm
Noize2u
Czar of Midi
Administrator Since: Apr 04, 2002
This is really my first delving into actually recording rap or hip-hop artists. I have created beats and loops for years, and even played on many recordings. But Tuna talked me into giving these guys a try. These 2 tracks are absolutely dry, no FX at all. Just some simple panning so far. The second track seems a little heavy on the right side to me in the mp3 but it plays out fine everywhere else on CD.
Oh ya, I'll state it one more time here just to be clear. I hate mp3's, as it absolutely sucked the kick butt bottom end right outa these tracks. The second track has the biggest thump I have heard and its gone outat the dang mp3.
There in my profile under the BorderFlo album.
www.homerecordingconnecti...=music&id=5
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Mar 11, 2006 11:07 am Very cool, great sound (even with the loss of bass). Lots of intensity. What synths/software/instruments are being used? Is that two guys vox or one doubled? Kind-of spacey tune... X-Files... enjoyed this immensely!
Mar 11, 2006 02:33 pm It actually started out as a loop he brought in. I added a few of the synth parts here with the z3ta+ (pronouced zeta) synth from RGC Audio. www.rgcaudio.com It is also available from Cakewalk since they partnered with Rene. They put it up for sale for registered Cakewalk users, even for older applications. I think it goes out at $99.00 when its on sale. Very interesting stuff in it.
But the backing tracks are pretty much as is. They wanted a killer bottom end on it and it turned out great. I am going to try and up it for the mp3 file and wee what happens.
As for the vocal parts. It is just 2 takes for each vocal part. I used 2 mics to record the vocal. 1 Oktava MK-319 close mic and then an AT3035 spaced about 3 feet directly behind the Oktava and about a foot higher pointed directly at the Oktava. That distance prevented any phase issues.
Then the vocal parts are recorded once, then a second time for the double tracked effect. The first track Border Freestyle is just Jose double tracked with 2 mics each. Panning is the only effect used to get that space in the vox. The second track is the same set up but with 2 differant vocalists. Wierd thing is the mp3 seems to lean a bit to the right every so slighly. Not sure why. I'm going to have to check the file and see if I messed something up when converting it.
I like doing the 2 mic thing instead of using a chorus effect, although sometimes you cant aviod using chorus. But this technique seems to work well when done right, so I use it alot. The 2 differant mic's each have their own character so it adds a lot of depth to the vocal parts.
I'm still going to experiment a little on the tracks with the vocals a bit. The backing is done as far as I'm concerned.
Mar 11, 2006 05:14 pm Noize, Really really good, uncluttered style. Synth sounds cool and i like the guys vocal.
Recording was superb, nothing much i can add if that whole thing is dry.
It's a while since i was into hip hop but that sounded just fine.
Interested in what you were saying about recording the vocal. I might try experimenting with two mics on the same take, never even had it suggested which is strange given the amount of time i used to spend trawling forums for tips on getting my shoddy vocals sounding good!
Also, is chorus the effect of choice for adding depth to vocals? I've always used a delay, someone must have told me to at some point.
Great stuff, what style of music do you record most?
Mac
Mar 11, 2006 06:26 pm Chorus or delay, as chorus is really just a form of delay. But that is the trick behind the 2 mic set up. I have actually done it with more than that. You can add more space for more delay between the mics, but carefull of phasing issues once you hit a certain distance. This was done with the second mic directly behind, but you can do it off to the side or what ever as well. I have done it with the second mic behind the vocalist as well.
Hallways work really well for this. If you can get a long narrow hallway, set up several mics and see what happens. Youd be surprised at the effect's you can come up with just mixxing several mics at differant distances.
Thanx for the compliment and the listen as well.
Noize
Mar 12, 2006 03:46 pm So how close to the primary mic are these guys when they're doin' their thing? We've been experimenting with a PA mic just to try the "lips on the mic" approach for some spoken vocals... I've had my vocalist's lips anywhere from 12 inches to as close as 1 inch from my large diaphragm mic (thin pop guard). Can't get any closer on that one... On a PA mic, you know... sometimes it gets a little moist...
Mar 13, 2006 01:15 pm Noize who was it?? Just outta curiosity being we live in the same state...
Was it local??
**EDIT...Nevermind....I see now...
Mar 13, 2006 07:01 pm DungBeatle, on the Primary, Oktava MK-319 the pop shield was about 3" from the mic iself. I had his face right on the pop filter. I would normally go 5-6" away for most other vocals but I wanted to catch some of the sibalance for expresion. And honestly that distance seems to make the Oktava really sound loud and warm. I'm with you on not letting peep's spit on my mic's. I have made some thin spit covers for my dynamics and tried for the condensors. But the shield works best as the condensors seem to work best from those distances.
I think alot of the sound I get is attributed to the 2 mic set up though.
I have a Clapton DVD, the Robert Johnson one. Were he is right on the mic. Not sure if it was a ribbon or condensor, but he had his face right on it at times.
Jason, yep he was local. A friend of my son.
Mar 13, 2006 07:25 pm That's the sound... Right on top of the mic, like we're listening at the singer's lips... it's really focused... personal... you know, that's what I like about TonyD's recordings... (hey Tony!) he has that sound too... very direct and personal...
Mar 13, 2006 09:10 pm That is my favorite thing about the Oktava. A very direct and intense sound. But still warm and full. But the thing is it must be an older real Russian model. I have tried some of the newer ones and think they are knock off's, as they just dont have it.
Somewhere I have a link to the only US distributer of imported Oktava stuff. The 319 is around $275.00 if I remember correctly.
Let me know and I will see if I can find the link for the place that had them. I know several peeps were buying the ones off E-bay which ended up being the knock offs. I almost bought a pair of them from the chick that was selling them.
Mar 14, 2006 06:32 am Noize, I'm not much of a hip hop fan (I wasn't!) But I really like these two mp3s. Great work all around man
Mar 14, 2006 01:06 pm I bought my 319 at GC for $99 on clearance and I feel mine is the older model as well...REALLY sesnitive and defined. Every lip smack or nasal sound gets caught...
I love the sound of it...
I knew there was something about the 319's where the early models were great mics but, the later models were crap...or something like that. I didn't know it was a knock off issue...Interesting...
Mar 14, 2006 02:17 pm Yeah, the MK-219s had the same issue . The ones that came along as the 'second batch' of mics that GC was selling turned out to be knock-offs, or b-stock models . Some had noise issues, weak signals, or both . I got lucky, catching the first wave of 'em, picked up one for $99 with the $599 list price sticker still on it .
$599 for an MK-219 ?! bah !
Mar 14, 2006 04:56 pm Noize, I'm going to give this a listen tomorrow at work!
Mar 14, 2006 05:02 pm Thats the one I have Hue...I got mine with the black vinyl carrying bag which has the $599 tag tied to it...
Mar 14, 2006 09:42 pm coolo, I await your reply. Honestly I dont care for the mp3 version myself as it is lacking the thud of the low end. The bass just sounds lifeless on the mp3. All I know is it doesnt sound like the CD does.
Mar 16, 2006 02:03 pm I don't know, bass is thumping pretty good to me. But, uh, I honestly think the vocals could use a little love to make it sound nicer. I would definitely roll off eq on the vocals under 80 Hz, and I think some compression wouldn't hurt it. I think the main point of the compression would be to squash the natural room reverb that I'm hearing.
The vox on the first track are jumbled/muddy. I think part of it is the mumbly delivery of the mc, and maybe part might be the dual mic config, but I'm not sure. But I have a hard time understanding what the mc is saying.
The rest of the mix sounds clean though. Not a bad effort for some youngsters.
Mar 16, 2006 10:09 pm coolo, check your emial.
Honestly I hate what the mp3 did to the raw tracks. there is no processing on it at all. And on the CD it sounds so much better, both vocal and backing track wise.
Mar 24, 2006 02:10 am I don't listen to hip hop/rap but I think the mixes sound really good Noize, and with nothing added except some panning I'm amazed at how nice it sounds. I know what you mean about mp3's but honestly this really sounds great to me. :)
Dan
Mar 26, 2006 08:03 pm Thanx OD. Indeed it is not my main direction for recording. Really the first time I have gotten involved other then the beat making side or arrangments for this type of music. I liked working with Jose, cant say much for the other kid that came in for the second tune. He had an attitude and a very big head. Just didnt match up with Jose, but he was pretty good at what he did.
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