Dynamic Effects
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Posted on May 18, 2002 07:01 pm
Walt
Chief Cook and Bottle Washer
Member Since: May 10, 2002
Hope this doesn't demote me from apprentice to rookie again!...but....gota ask. This could be a blond moment.
I have reviewed your article on dynamic effects a few times now dB and I still can not get it streight why I need to expand my rack. It's getting heavy! My head is saying I can gate, and compress post recording in Cubase. To be honest I have not had a lot of luck with gating, it seems harsh. Compression is a lovely thing! I can also see the compresser / gate combination pre-tape (disk) to avoid clipping. At present I seem to be ok on recording in reference to head room with good saturation and good signal to noise ratio i.e. noise floor. Am I missing something here? Is there any other sonic value to pre-tape dynamic processing other than holding the chain to dynamic limits? You know I'll end up buying a step van yet!
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georgeContributor
Since: Apr 14, 2002
May 19, 2002 05:58 am Hi Walt. Good job on focusing on signal/noise, and good level. These are your main concerns. Many of us compress on the way in only the most troublesome signals, like vocals and bass. If you're doing good with these, more power to you. Compressing also adds a flavor to the sound. Different compressors sound different, even though they are supposed to be transparent. I use a Joe Meek for vocals and bass, and it gives me a real "in your face" sound, without sounding squashed. I also like it on arppegiated acoustic guitar parts. I'm not a huge fan of gates either. I prefer to ride the fader during mixdown. An expander/compressor combo can work more effectivly than a gate many times, but don't give up on the gate. Keep experimenting until it obeys you. Also, from a sound standpoint, Waves' renaisance compressor(software) can emulate almost any classic compressor. Good luck, George.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
May 19, 2002 12:15 pm Thank you George!
Just to paraphrase, I'm obviously watching my steps carefully because I really like buying things ONCE as much as possible!
As long as my incoming signal is saturated well without clipping I can continue to use dynamic effects on post recording in software. I really appreciate the reference to waves. I am hearing a lot of good things about it. Cool Pro, Wavelab, and Waves are all about 4.5 bucks and thats a hit to me if they don't perform well! If and when I get into a recording situation where the signal is out of control per the performers I will look into Joe Meek. That's the plan at present.
May 19, 2002 03:44 pm WaveLab and Waves plugins are great! I use them both...OFTEN...I highly recommend them and I know I speak for noize2u in recommending them as well, as he is huge fans as well.
WaveLab: service.bfast.com/bfast/c...mp;bfmtype=gear
Waves Native Power Pack: service.bfast.com/bfast/c...mp;bfmtype=gear
Waves Reniassance Bundle: service.bfast.com/bfast/c...mp;bfmtype=gear
As for "Cool Pro" are you discussing Cool Edit? If so, think twice, not quite the same audio quality as Wavelab or the higher-end apps. There are better multitracking apps out there, they cost more, so considering price, Cool Edit may do you well. Another consideration is Cubasis, the little brother to Cubase, better audio quality, but less features...it's a toss-up
Cubasis: service.bfast.com/bfast/c...mp;bfmtype=gear
And yes, as long as you original incoming signal is not clipping you can continue to process it to your hearts content, and Waves plugins are just the way to do it.
As far as your rack is concerned, I have a minimal rack, I have just enough to get a quality signal to my PC, from there the rack is a moot point, as all further processing is done in the PC. And if you can do it with software and get a sound you like, it is more efficient on the wallet, as you can buy one effect plugin and use it on as many tracks as you want with as many different settings as you want, where if you buy a rack effect, well, one setting at a time...
Thats just my two cents, take it for what you consider it worth.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
May 19, 2002 05:41 pm Sounds like real good advice all around! And I think I even understand it at this point! At least till I hit the next wall! I'm using Cubase 5.1 and yes dB, I have been using Cool Edit Pro as a launch from Cubase for noise reduction, wave analysis, and a couple of wiereded out effects to patch things up that I had no Idea what to do with! (mostly performance issues). The waves thing is sounding real interesting. I'll start saving gig money!
As always, thanks all so much for the help. It does save enourmous (at least to me) amounts of money compared to me trying this that getting frustrated then something else!
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
May 19, 2002 10:57 pm Agreed as usual. The Waves bundle's perform flawlessly, as they should for the price. But as I have said in the past, I am a cheap sob and I will cut corner's when I can, but DSP is not a corner to cut for final production and Waves bundle's do not cut corner's at all. I have and will continue to use their product's, with great joy I might add.
May 20, 2002 05:13 am Well, I will tell you right now, if you have Cubase and are getting WaveLab, with or without Waves I am betting Cool Edit will quickly leave your rotation of software, WaveLab and Cubase out perform Cool Edit at every level.
Though, stupe, a regular here (on-and-off regular anyway:-) seems to be quite content with CoolEdit and has been for a long time, so there must be something there that the rest of us are missing...cua I trust stupe and he makes good recordings.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
May 21, 2002 12:14 am None of this is easy. I mean the decisions. I am one for limiting my software to a minimum just because of the shear mass and learning quirks to each one. I am agreeing with all present. Cool edit pro does a nice job of taking a wave form and doing liner or faded amplification + & -. It also has a multi band parametric that I have successfully used to take the color out of certain microphones. Waves and Steinberg Megneto are the pieces I am looking to next at present. I can see a real need for a multi frequency compressor, a damn good room emulator, a volume maximizer (non linear as apposed to normalizing, and the megneto sparkle machine. I am to the point in my apprenticship hehehe where I am getting real clear clean recordings of instruments. Getting the character of the instruments through the mix to include vocals. Now I am looking to get the pazzaz that good pre mastering gives. I am sure that will take a while. I still have better ear days than others. Not yet consistant. But my recordings are ready for that next step....I think! I have not totally decided between waves and wavelab, but waves native seems a little more on target for my needs. I am assembling a cross faded batch of signature phrases for the big band for a band sample CD for perspective gig inquiries. You know with a little "want a party... Just Listen! and "Dinner and dance? well listen to this" hype stuff. We are getting more and more of that kind of request from the corporate purchasers..ISO Music!...UL approved! OSHA compliant! Equal opertunity offenders!
May 21, 2002 05:08 am well, now that was quite a mantra Walt :-)
Magneto, eh? I'll tell ya one thing, I have no other single plugin that gets used more. Magneto is the best for the mastering stage of recording. An absolutely unbelieveable plugin.
If Cool Edit does it for ya, great,then don't bother spending the money on WaveLab, go for the plugins and other toys. If CE is good for your mastering app, why buy another? Youmay as well start getting stuff you don't already have...
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
May 21, 2002 10:59 am Yes dB, I think you have my neads pretty much nailed. I am going to shoot for Megneto and Waves Native. CE's linear algorithims seem to be fine best I can tell at present. Of course who knows. It's all about pealing off the layers of the onion. Each layer reveals something new. Previously too subtle to hear through the last layer. But I knows theres a sweet spot in there... I've heard it...Yup Yup
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
May 22, 2002 09:25 pm Walt, you will absolutely love Magneto. It is, as dB said probably the most used tool in my DSP arsenal. I use it for everything from simple saturation to all out sonic assualt's on audio clip's. It can be stubtle or in you face, but it is alway's the best at what it does. There are no substitute's, unless you got a few grand for a good tube saturater.
