for newbies: best multitrack recording software...

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The Eternal Student
Member Since: Oct 08, 2005

Alright, I've heard a lot of different opinions about multitrack recording software...

For the person who's NEVER used a multitrack recording program... has NO previous experience using them, and has never actually turned knobs in a real studio... what would you suggest in the sub $500 range?

Lets weed out the weaker varieties by saying that you'd at least need to record 10 tracks simultaneously, and a minimum 20 bit 96khz sample rates. Also, MIDI recording capabilities is a must.

So we have the following sequencer options (not all inclusive by any means) for the PC:
M-powered Protools: $299
Mackie Tracktion 2: $149
Cakewalk Sonar 5 producer: $499
Cakewalk Sonar 5 studio: $299
Cakewalk Sonar Home studio 4/4xl: $99/$159
Magix Samplitude V8 Classic Recording Software: $499
Cubase SL3 Hybrid Version: $299
Multitrack Studio Pro Plus: $119
n-track Studio 24: $75



and the following Pattern Based Sequencers:
Ableton Live 5: $399
Sony Acid Pro 5: $249
Image Line FL Studio 5: $299
Cakewalk Project 5, Version 2: $299

-Adobe Audition 1.5- cannot record midi, off the list.
-Kristal Audio Engine: Free- but no MIDI support as of yet, off the list for the time being


Please feel free to add to the list appropriate mulittrack software that I missed, and tell me why you'd prefer it over the items listed here.

I'm looking for multitrack software and am in a quandary as to what to purchase at this point. I don't want to get something that after I learn the whole program and am using everything, will have to get something different or more powerful later on (like in the next year or two).

Please post your opinions/what you use, and why you use it when you get a chance. Thanks a bunch!

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JR Productions
Member
Since: Mar 03, 2005


Nov 13, 2005 03:17 pm

Good idea. seems theres always a bunch of threads asking for the best multitrack software. just thought id let you know though that although you can play midi in audition, you cannot record it.

The Eternal Student
Member
Since: Oct 08, 2005


Nov 13, 2005 03:33 pm

Thanks for the tip, Josh. It's off the list [editing].

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Nov 13, 2005 06:07 pm

Good research and excellent thread dude.

I am a Cakewalk guy all the way, if they made a masetring app I'd probably switch to it. I like the apps usability and their bundled effects and synths. But then, in the higher end software they all have good bundles and great sound so it usually boils down to what interface you like.

Don't forget MultitrackStudio for $129 I believe. No bundle, but a great sound and easy to use for a low price. Of course there is also Kristal Audio Engine for free...

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Nov 13, 2005 07:41 pm

Well here is my 2 cents on the choices.

Ableton, Acid and Fruity are really for working with loop's. However Ableton Live will allow live recording of unlimited size clips. If Ableton is something you might be interested in you might also take a look at Cakewalks Project 5 ver. 2. It is a much bigger app then Ableton with several much more powerfull synths and editing tool's. It is now capable of recording live tracks of unlimited size as well. And comes with a very large library of loops and midi patterns.

And I am sure you know which of the bigger apps my vote goes for, Sonar 5 PE. Well worth the money, very capable of what you need. As well it is loaded with a ton of synths, FX, loops and samples. And it is probably the most user freindly, intuative of teh higher priced apps.

The Eternal Student
Member
Since: Oct 08, 2005


Nov 13, 2005 08:31 pm

[Editing] FL studio isn't fruity loops, though it's made by the same company. It looks like it's a multitracker but designed with strong points in looping, similar to Sony's Acid, which wouldn't necessarily be a detriment to what I'd like to do with it. Adding Multitrack Studio and Kristal (might have to try Kristal out). So far I have two votes for SONAR 5...

More input?

SM7b the Chuck Noris of Mic's
Contributor
Since: Jun 20, 2002


Nov 14, 2005 01:27 am

My vote is for Sonar and if cash is a factor and you don't need to record in seround check out studio edition . You can upgrade to PE later.

Member
Since: Aug 12, 2005


Nov 14, 2005 07:55 am

I'll have to say Cubase. I had never used any multitracker before, and no studio experience either and I found it very easy to use first time. Haven't tried any of the others so can't really compare.

Pinnipedal Czar (: 3=
Member
Since: Apr 11, 2004


Nov 14, 2005 08:05 am

Ditto, Geoff .

Hello!
Member
Since: Jan 12, 2004


Nov 14, 2005 08:14 am

Ah, the only multitracker for me is indeed Cubase.

Love it to bits..power and (when you get the curve) ease of use.

Alas though, there are OTHER options as described.

IIRC, Cakewalk Pro Audio 9 is the easiest app I ever used and good for what it done...excellent for designing MIDI patterns so, canny knock it.

Worst interface I ever seen....ah, I wont go there!!!!

Cheers

Coco.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Nov 14, 2005 08:25 am

Cakewalk sucked *** back in the Pro Audio days, I tried it a couple of time, Noize2u tried and tried to get me to go to Cakewalk Pro Audio since about version 6, I always hated the sound quality, though it has always been easy to use. Once Cakewalk released Sonar 1, they obviously came in with it to play against the heavyweights. The sound quality and performance improved 100% with the Sonar 1 release and has done nothing but get better and better since.

Cubase I still hate because of my old opinions formed in the Cubase VST era when it was such a stupidly complex interface it just pissed me off. I have heard it's gotten loads better since, but I am so long with Sonar now I am not even going to consider switching...the only other Multitracker besides Sonar I ever use is MultitrackStudio, and that's rare. Otherwise, I use other multitrackers when I am reviewing them, then uninstall them when I am done.

Project 5 could be considered in this discussion as well...it's 10x what FruityLoops and it's knock-offs are...

The Eternal Student
Member
Since: Oct 08, 2005


Nov 14, 2005 10:02 am

Thanks for the feedback folks. [Editing original post] Adding Cakewalk Project 5 to the lineup. Looks like 4 votes for Cakewalk Products, namely Sonar, and 2 for Cubase. I was a little foggy on the different Cubase options, I'm assuming SL3 or SX3 are the options. SX3 is a little out of my budget at $599.

What about n-track Studio? Anybody use it? Like it/hate it? It looks like it has similar capabilities to Kristal Audio, so I'll add it.

More opinions/options?

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Nov 14, 2005 10:04 am

I few people here use nTrack, I tried it and reviewed it...I'd never recommend it to anyone.

Cakewalk does make cheaper apps as well, Sonar Home Studio is a GREAT app for the price, and when ready to upgrade, all the habits you got into WILL get you working in Sonar quickly.

The Eternal Student
Member
Since: Oct 08, 2005


Nov 14, 2005 10:08 am

Vote against n-track..lol. Added Sonar Home studio series.

The Eternal Student
Member
Since: Oct 08, 2005


Nov 14, 2005 10:40 am

Sorry Noize, I missed your first suggestion of Project 5... it's in the list now.

More suggestions/Opinions?

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Nov 14, 2005 06:16 pm

No sweat kenneth, I figured you get it eventually.

jimmie neutron
Member
Since: Feb 14, 2005


Nov 14, 2005 08:01 pm

I've not used any of the new stuff, so I can't really say which is better, but I do know the one thing that has swayed me more than any other, and that is the "dongle" that Cubase has for anti-user... er, anti-piracy, that's it... Cakewalk hasn't gone that route (yet), tho it probably isn't far off...

The Eternal Student
Member
Since: Oct 08, 2005


Nov 14, 2005 08:21 pm

Yeah, I heard about that too, and didn't really like the idea of having a second piece of hardware I'd have to lug around, esp. when people say it's a bit problematic at times.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Nov 14, 2005 09:52 pm

Nope, Cakewalk will never go to the dongle type reg key. At least under the leadership they have now. They dont believe in that crap and arent willing to have to fight the tech battle they can cause.

Prince CZAR-ming
Member
Since: Apr 08, 2004


Nov 15, 2005 10:21 am

I'm using n-track. I'm pretty happy with it. There's a whole community that's used other stuff, and come back to n-track.

I've loaded traction, and cubase vst. I'm used to the live screen, and the mixer view, so traction was a learning curve, though it may be good for first time users. Cubase VST looked like fisher-price, compared to n-track.

I've tried cakewalk years ago (like 4 or 5) and couldn't get it to fly right off like I did with n-track. I didn't try for more than an hour or so, but it was not sensible to me. N-track was sensible, and worked right away.

I'm using FL studio as well. Not the high end product, that records, but the 100$ one. It's capable of more that I'm using it for, and it takes a little to get used to it, but it can do a lot. It's very flexible, and comes with a bunch of great plug-ins. N-track comes with great plug-ins as well.

Answer:On a good day, lipstick.
Member
Since: Jun 24, 2004


Nov 15, 2005 02:29 pm

Cubase/Cubasis VST I wasn't happy with. There's a lot of limitations, and I soon outgrew it. Plus, the preparations for recording seemed a bit longwinded. Too many steps - too many rules. I think Kristal is better than the VST's.

Did play about a bit with N-Track, and MultiTrack, and I think N-Track is cool.

Dear Santa: Can I please get Nuendo? I'll double up on cookies for ya, and a glass of sherry will replace the milk.

The Eternal Student
Member
Since: Oct 08, 2005


Nov 15, 2005 02:29 pm

Awesome, pjk, thanks for your input. I'm also glad to hear that Cakewalk isnt' going to go to the hardware dongle thing as well.

Has anyone used Magix Samplitude? How about some ProTools users?

The Eternal Student
Member
Since: Oct 08, 2005


Nov 15, 2005 02:32 pm

And thanks to Tall Chap as well. Nueno?! Two GRAND?! Goodness...

2 votes for N-track, one against (dB, the rebel). =)

How about PT or Samplitude?

Answer:On a good day, lipstick.
Member
Since: Jun 24, 2004


Nov 15, 2005 02:55 pm

Yeah, does Santa really see if you're naughty, or nice?

Nuendo is silly money.

However, I did get an opportunity to play with it, and it's soooooo cool. Very powerful.

Nuendo VST?
I'm kidding.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Nov 15, 2005 04:00 pm

Quote:
Plus, the preparations for recording seemed a bit longwinded.


That was exactly my main problem with it, seemed too much of a hassle for such a simple task, I figured if something that simple is so difficult, what can the rest be like? I soon found the rest just as convoluted. That experience soured me on Cubase for life me thinks.

Nuendo is the thing that will eventually replace PT in the major marketplace if anything does...it's awesome...it's like PT, hardware and software at it's highest levels.

The Eternal Student
Member
Since: Oct 08, 2005


Nov 15, 2005 04:29 pm

So is the M-powered protools the "big cheese" in the group, minus the plugins that come with Protools LE? I mean.. it's only $300 (and I have an M-powered compatible interface)... or is Sonar still a better application?

Pinnipedal Czar (: 3=
Member
Since: Apr 11, 2004


Nov 15, 2005 05:05 pm

If you're planning on doing midi-stuff and trackin'... I'm tellin' y'a... SONAR !

www.cakewalk.com/Products/SONAR/Upgrade/videos.asp

Check the videos...


heh It's where I'm vacationing this winter ! ; )

SM7b the Chuck Noris of Mic's
Contributor
Since: Jun 20, 2002


Nov 15, 2005 05:08 pm

I played with PT M-power and it works and is a decent program. I still think you can do a bit more with sonar 5, and there's a bit of learning curve for PT's.

SM7b the Chuck Noris of Mic's
Contributor
Since: Jun 20, 2002


Nov 15, 2005 05:10 pm

kennethwsmithjr, most programs have free demo's on there web sites so you can check them out and see how you like them . I know Cakewalk, Tracktion, and Pro tools M-power have demo's to check out .

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Nov 15, 2005 07:39 pm

I used Samplitude way back. Very lacking program to say the least. It had along way to go back then as it still does today. Its GUI is slightly similar to Sonar, but with a lot less options available right from the main GUI. You have to dig a bit to get into it. Sound Quality wise, I am guessing it is pretty comparable to others. But it is definately not near as powerfull as Cubase, Sonar and Logic.

The Eternal Student
Member
Since: Oct 08, 2005


Nov 15, 2005 10:14 pm

So since Samplitude is $500, it's not a good option compared to the Sonar and Cubase. Alright.... since you mentioned it, Noize, how does Logic Pro compare to Sonar? I know its way out of the price range, but if I came into money and could afford it (and the Mac I'd have to get as well..)?

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Nov 15, 2005 10:18 pm

Again as stated about a few others. It is not very intuative to use at all. Most of the stuff you need out front is buried deep. And there are lots of things that take multiple mouse clicks to do in Logic that can be done in one click in Cubase and Sonar.

It is a good app non the less though, but I truly dont feel it is worth the price. But then again, most Mac apps are much higher Priced then PC. I shove that into the elitest catagory.

The Eternal Student
Member
Since: Oct 08, 2005


Nov 15, 2005 10:23 pm

Fair 'nuf. Thanks again for your input Noize. Ease of use is definitely a plus and high on the desirability list. I guess my job now would be to get a block of time and download some demos like Geoff suggested... now for that block of time... (Thermodynamics test on Thursday night... wuf).

Any more input out there? Feel free to jump in.

The Eternal Student
Member
Since: Oct 08, 2005


Nov 16, 2005 11:39 am

I downloaded Kristal Audio Engine... and it looks like it doesn't support Midi. Or is it just me? Anyways, I'm going to remove it from the list at this time since MIDI is a must.

The Multitrack Studio interface was decent (I thought it wasn't THAT hard to use, anyways)... the demo version is so limited though, it was tough to see what it could do... [editing original post]. I'll have to play around with Ableton Live lite a little tomorrow night.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Nov 16, 2005 11:43 am

no, it doesn't support MID...yet, the author said he is working on it tho, but that version won't be free.

The Eternal Student
Member
Since: Oct 08, 2005


Nov 16, 2005 11:44 am

Gotcha, so it may still be a player in the future. Thanks for the update dB.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Nov 16, 2005 11:48 am

Yeah, but it's been slow going on development, as many hobby project type things are...and Kristal is a hobby project for the developer hoping to make money someday...kinda like me and HRC ;-)

The Eternal Student
Member
Since: Oct 08, 2005


Nov 16, 2005 12:25 pm

Yeah, hobby projects only get done as fast as you have time to work on them. My ex girlfriend's father was just finishing up a totally customizable accounting/paperwork/form management software package that he'd been working on for 10 years...lol.

dB, I think you have a good start here, IMO. So if I could afford either Sonar or Project 5... would I be better off to get Project 5 since I'm sort of a one-man-band at this point and would likely be doing pretty much everything with Midi (and only vox on audio)?

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Nov 16, 2005 12:32 pm

Thanks kenneth, appreciate the sentiments. I am a lot like your ex's dad, I have a billion projects half done...if it wasn't for that pesky mortgage I could get some done. :-D I have HRC, my content management web-application, a few MMA-based projects...jeezuz, I gotta stop spread myself so thin and concerntrate, but thru it all, HRC still stands, and pretty well I think thanks to all the great members we have here day in and day out.

In your situation I would really consider looking at P5 now that it has recording features. The new version 2 is so hugely improved, it's awesome.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Nov 16, 2005 07:50 pm

Kenneth, as dB stated P5 v2 is hugely improved. I have actually done a couple fo projects from start to finish in it and they turned out great. The mixing facility isnt really as huge as Sonar but for most that isnt the main objective here. It does have per channel pluggin inserts as well as using layers nw as well. The built in arpegiator is fantastic. I have actually found I prefer it to the $100.00 arp program I own.

The Eternal Student
Member
Since: Oct 08, 2005


Nov 16, 2005 08:00 pm

yah, i downloaded the demo version of P5 version 2 and messed around with it a bit this afternoon. The interface looks pretty cool. I just have to figure out how to set up all the midi communication (computer's playing drums, keyboard's playing grand piano, the second track on the computer is playing rhodes...lol.) Yah, gotta spend some time setting that stuff up now..lol

Prince CZAR-ming
Member
Since: Apr 08, 2004


Nov 17, 2005 08:39 am

I'd have to say Ken, that if you're that devoted to the midi world, then n-track wouldn't be for you. It's very easy to get going, and do lots of stuff audio-wise, but it's not strong on midi. It doesn't have it's own internal soundfont player, you'd have to install one. SFZ is a free one that people use, but I found n-track cumbersome to use with midi.

I use FL Studio for all my midi work, and either import wave files into n-track, or run FL Studio as a VSTi inside of ntrack.


?cixelsid I mA
Member
Since: Jul 30, 2005


Nov 17, 2005 01:10 pm

I have Cubase SX2, Sonar 4 PE, and Samplitude Pro,and have tried Protools. One thing to consider is whether or not u will want to do your own mastering and CD burning. For the price, I thk Sonar may be your best bet, they all do excellent recording, but for the price, Sonar is least expensive for what u can do. No dongle means no hassle if u have limited usb ports and dongle problems will mean waiting till the problem is resolved before u can do anything. I must point out that I had a problem about a year ago and Steinberg fed-exd a replacement and I was back in business 2 days later, but 2 days may be a problem if u r pressed for time.

On the other hand, Samplitude has some good mastering tools and burns red book quality CDs and DVDs (pro version), it is more expensive though. What I did was found and old version (6) on sale for $99 and upgraded for $299 rather than pay almost $1100 for the latest version at their site.

Protools seems to be limited on the plugins u can use, but I think that is changing.

Of the 3 I do use, I have found that Samplitude seems to be the most stable on a PC/Windows XP platform and that may be because they only develop PC based products. Like I said, they are pricey though, and are a little behind the curve with midi tracking.

Right now I record in Cubase since I'm most familiar with it, then use
Samplitude to master and burn cds. For mobile work, its Sonar on the laptop (no dongle) and I can use it if the dongle fails on cubase or samplitude. Just my 11/2 cents worth.

The Eternal Student
Member
Since: Oct 08, 2005


Nov 18, 2005 05:58 pm

Yah, I *think* I've decided on Cakewalk products... just gotta figure out what sort of discount I can get through the school before I make my final decision... the only other thing I might consider would be sony's ACID, since I'm getting sound forge.

I still have a lot of demo downloading and messing around to do though.

Soundmind, it's interesting that you use both sonar AND cubase. Can you tell any difference with the sound quality between the two?

Member
Since: Jan 18, 2003


Nov 18, 2005 10:12 pm

not sure what people mean when they cubase is hard to set up in preparation for recording. you can create and save a blank template that loads automatically, everything set just how you like. it is then as easy as hitting the big red button.


?cixelsid I mA
Member
Since: Jul 30, 2005


Nov 18, 2005 11:49 pm

There is no difference in sound quality between Cubase, Sonar, or Samplitude. I use Cubase in the studio for multitracking and Sonar on my Laptop for mobile work. As I said, Sonar doesn't require a dongle that could get damaged or lost in mobile work. I'm more familiar with Cubase because it was my first serious recording app. Each one has its strengths and weaknesses. Sound quality wont be an issue if u have good input devices and monitors. They are all good. I really think the best thing to do is try them out and see which "feels" best to your way of doing things. If I had to choose only one right now, It would be Samplitude because of it's mastering tools, but it is expensive. For the buck, I thnk Sonar is the best value. I'm just glad I don't have to choose only one.

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