New CD Copy Protection Goof...

Posted on

Administrator Since: Apr 03, 2002

Kinda sad if you are a Mac user (perish the thought!):

www.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,52513,00.html

Noize emailed me this article about the same subject:

www.macuser.co.uk/guest/p...le.php3?id=1990

[ Back to Top ]


Member
Since: Apr 05, 2002


May 23, 2002 01:08 pm

What is funny is how this works. I have yahoo as my start page and I was quite surprised to see the article there, but it talked about how Sony's protection of cds can be bypassed with a felt tip pen. The idea, from what I wrote, is that cd in computers read data before audio, so they filled the beginning with a junk data packet and so a pc computer enver can get past that part. If you take a pen and cover over the very beginning I think it was, it plays fine. I think they put it out because SONY and others had invested so much in coming out with this protection. They also talked about how it crashed macs, but I think that mac users can use the same technique to get around it as well. Its sad though. I understand the labels point of view, they have put all this money into production and everything, but at the same time, I think it is inevitable. I feel for the artist because the record lables make a TON of money, and the artist is the one who really gets jipped in the end. This may be more appropiate for the sopabox area, but what I feel is that if you spend your whole life perfecting a talent, be it music, or sports, or whatever, then you should be able to get rewarded for it. I don't think I am going to "make it" anytime soon, but if I did, there is no reason for others to be bitter about it. I spent HOURS, DAYS, MONTHS, and YEARS trying to learn to sing, play guitar adn everything else. I think that talented people put themselves into their craft and a lot of times at the exclusion of everything and everyone else around them. I know that I missed a lot of other things because I was always pursuing music. Not that I am unhappy, but while others were out getting laid, going to parties, and having that experience, I was at home practicing or playing gigs. I know athletes seem to get paid outrageous amounts of money to hit a ball or block anbother guy, but they've spent their lives dedicaating themselves to their profession adn the work they did to get there was something that I wasn't willing to put in. Plus, just like most musicians who amke it, their career is most likely going to be very short and so the money they make in that time IS going to be large, becuase after that time they may never have something like that again. Ok that was long, but I felt I just had to say my piece on the subject.
Marc (da Sharc)

Contributor
Since: Apr 03, 2002


May 23, 2002 01:53 pm

if the labels do not find a new digital medium to market the music successfully, they will always have this problem.

cds are just not protectable in that fashion.

personally i like to d/l three or four tracks from a new cd before i buy it. this keeps me from wasting money on a completely shitty cd with one good song on it. i made that mistake 2 times in the past where a band put out a good first cd, i figured the 2nd would be equally as good.. but no, it wasnt.

at the standard 16.99-18.99 for each new cd and the labels getting the majority of that mark-up(only takes $.02 to make them) i dont think they can complain that much.

now if the artist was getting 2/3 of the profits, id feel different about it.

the labels claim that this piracy hurts their profits.. what i bet that means is, "were not selling to our potential but sales are still higher from last year".

greedy bastards.

Chief Cook and Bottle Washer
Member
Since: May 10, 2002


May 23, 2002 10:47 pm

Sony corp. is pretty warped with a lot of their digital stuff. I purchased a VAIO labtop. When I went to install Microslop network messaging on the thing it blew up. After many rounds with Sony tech service the final answer was that Sony does not support that portion of Microslop and if you do anything to change it we will invalidate your warrenty. Then they gave a couple of Sony (EXPENSIVE) approved methods to achive my goal. Let me see? You ship it with Microslop as an operating system, but only support parts of it? Cool! Your last sale to me on any digital equipment! I waited the year and fixed it. Funny none of my friends or affialites have bought a Sony since?

Greed has a tendency to be a short term event in most cases.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


May 24, 2002 06:53 am

If a company sells any PC based anything and says it "doesn't support micro$oft" that is a total recipe for failure...WOW, that's kinda like a guitar that doesn't support the use of strings!

I have seen move VAIO horror stories, those stories are almost as common as Packard Bell horror stories...and THAT says a lot!

Member
Since: Apr 30, 2002


May 24, 2002 10:20 am

i kind of disagree about that comment that if labels don't find a way to market music digitally they won't survive, 'cuz i mean look, people are always gonna buy cds. like think about big names like britanny spears or nsync or whoever, they're really really popular. and their fans are gonna go and but a nice shiny cd case containing lots of airbrushed photos and other fluff and stuff, because they want to like own the whole product. I agree that they've run into a problem, i mean i'm sure sales and stuff are down or whatever, but the big guys who make the majority of the labels profits, like huge pop stars and stuff and the entire adult contemp market, they'll still be selling the physical cds long after somebody actually starts subscribing to morpheus or whatever.
and to boot, i really can't see that whole peer to peer file 'sharing' with a price tag working at all. i mean i guess this is my main point right here, or maybe my thesis judging by the length of this, but people are not ready to just buy something that is untangible. like if you go but a cd, you have a cd to show for it. like 'look at my new tool cd'. but if you pay for an mp3, a file on your computer, it just ain't the same for the majority of us, i believe.
later y'all
tristan

Chief Cook and Bottle Washer
Member
Since: May 10, 2002


May 24, 2002 10:17 am

Amen! Combine a Phony with a Horse Poop and you got a glorified paper weight! Let me be a little carefull. I have Sony headphones and love them. I have Sony speakers on my TV and love them (inexpensive and good enough for tube audio). HP is something else.

The copywright thing is a shame! I buy CD's. I do however rip them and keep a data disk on file if I really like the music. That way if my drummer drops his ash on the audio CD or if it goes out of production walla! I can make another!

The aspect of copywright protection that intrigues me is market saturation. One of the reasons that MicroSlop is ingrained as far as their upper level programs is that everybody has a copy. Some copies from work, friends, etc. in many cases but still the standard. Will it continue to be the standard if everybody has to buy it? And if not, how interesting will it be to the corporate purchaser who needs to communicate with everybody out there? Or will IT back step and become an elitest comunity? Is this good for MicroSlop market share? Same thing with music. It's all about being heard. If you can't afford it can you tell your friends about it? Hmmm stay tuned for the next episode of Wahoo we be rich! or Where or where did the market go?

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


May 24, 2002 12:29 pm

Ya, it's all about being heard, but it's also about putting food on the table to feed your family. I personally have little problem with these thing (as long as they don't wreck stuff), it bums me out, but it is their music/software/whatever and they have every right to protect it. I understand both sides of the argument, but at the ned of the day it is their stuff, if they choose to protect it that way, God Bless 'em, if their sales and listener/user base goes down, well, that's their problem, but protecting it is still perfectly within their rights.

In my humble opinion.

Contributor
Since: Apr 03, 2002


May 24, 2002 02:55 pm

quote from tbone:
----------------------
i kind of disagree about that comment that if labels don't find a way to market music digitally they won't survive, 'cuz i mean look, people are always gonna buy cds.
----------------------

the point is not that people will quit buying cds, it was that they will always have piracy as long as theyre selling cds in stores.

do you really think cds will be the end all be all of commerically released music? absolutely not. they will replace them sooner than we expect, particularly if their profits are seriously being hurt by piracy.

until they can figure out a completely digital medium to release the music in [ie. not making cds anymore], people will be ripping off cds.

Member
Since: Apr 05, 2002


May 24, 2002 03:26 pm

I can't say that I believe that sales are going to suffer if they don't find a new medium, ie all digital no physicality. I do believe that it is another avenue to explore, but the fact is that not everybody uses the internet. As hard as that might be to belive, I know people who still don't have an email address or even a computer. Now, granted, I think MOST people DO have a computer, but lits of people can't figure stuff out when it comes to computers. I think cd's, or whatever medium emerges, will always sell physical cds. I am goign both ways on things like Morpheous and Kazaa. As a musician who likes to learn to play covers sometimes, its cool to be able to download an old song and learn it without having to buy the whole cd, but like I said, I hate the fact that atrists will ultimately suffer more than the record companies. The internet is a great place for newer artists to get known, or at least heard. I think what will eventually happen is that there will be some type of copyright protection on cds and such, and eventually the "free-for-all that has been going on will atleast taper off. I still buy cds. because lets face it, mp3's only sound so good, and yes, I do like having a physical "product." But I agree that I hate buying a cd that I hope is going to be good and then it turns out to be a flop except with one or two songs. That is why I think more retailers need to put the cd in a listening station so people can hear what they are buying before they buy it. It could possibly hurt those that only have one or two good songs on their album, but I have bought albums that were not big commercial success because I listened to it and I liked a majority of the music on it. Especially for newer acts.
Also, I think the reason that cd companies don't need to be TOO worried is that lets face it, most of us, mylsef included are still using dial-up and downloading a song takes me quite a long time, and I usually pray that I don't get knowcked off or something like that because once I do I usually give up. After what happened to napster I have a feeling that eventually the others will meet a similar fate as well. You can't stop people from burning a copy for their friends, but hey, we used to do that with tapes, so its not really any different, but of course the quality is better. Eventually they will come out with something that has better protection than what they have now and for the most part, it will stem the flow of pirated cds. Its pretty inevitable.
Marc (da Sharc)

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


May 25, 2002 11:30 am

OK, let me add a little fuel to the fire here. If indeed pirating and copying music is hurting the industrie, then how is it that these artist's signed with big label's keep breaking sale's record's and or going platinum and so on multiple time's.

Look back to when Napster was just beggining to get jumped on and they were really in the million's of user's on line sharing music. The last Britteny Spears disc was available there for over 2 week's B4 it was scheduled for release, and it was being DL'd at a furious rate. Now if that was hurting the industrie's sales figure's. Why then did she break like 4 loong standing sale's record's in one friggin week. Tell me how sharing has hurt them now.

In my opinion, without online sharing that would not have happened. And so it goes for many other artist's out there.

Without the SHARING of music, meaning mine, yours and anyone else out there who would like to make a CD or just get it online as an MP3. If the industry get's what they want, none of us, and alot of the Indie band's and label's will go virtually unheard. And I for one don't like that thought at all.

I have discovered more new band's and music with the internet, then I ever would have just hearing it on the ever so limited radio station's in this musicly narrow radio town. There was a station at one time that played everything, but allas, Corperate greed just like the copy protection rackit, killed the station B4 it could really grow into something big and swipe a piece of their precious pie.

OK, that is enough for now, I think you get the picture. Now let's all try to do something about it.

Eat Spam before it eats YOU!!!
Member
Since: May 11, 2002


May 27, 2002 10:47 am

I think useing encryption to combat piracy is a losing battle. It's time for the industry to look at new ways to make money or look at ways to get people to WANT the real CD. One possibilty is to raise the price of Concerts but offer a discount off of concert tickets which would allow that person to get in at the uninflaited price. Or have people register their copies to get other merchandise etc. We're just dealing with an industry that moves slower than the nuculear industry.


Contributor
Since: Apr 03, 2002


May 28, 2002 07:41 pm

it doesnt move because it makes them rich. why would they want to change something that works well for them but rips the consumer off?


Member
Since: Apr 30, 2002


May 28, 2002 10:42 pm

'do you really think cds will be the end all be all of commerically released music?'

no, i dont and i think its pretty clear that's not what i was getting at, i was saying (and still am) that people nowadays (its a little different with like my 12 year old cousin, cuz he's way more used to the internet, its always been around while growing up), will not be satisfied spending their money on something they cant see or touch or smell or whatever. obviously there'll be advances from the cd - that wasn't my argument.

its all about the appeal of the product, and as long as consumers have things to buy they'll buy them. north america is living proof ain't it?.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


May 29, 2002 05:38 am

I agree with tbone, if you sell it, they will buy, and the US is good proof of it. I think some peeps are missing that point. Also, the fact that CD are a marketing tool that are used to build a fan base to sell concert tickets, the artists sees very little of the CD money.

Is the record label ripping them off, well, ya, but the record company also invests heavily in these CD's, do you think the 2 cents it takes to make each CD is all they pay...you are missing promotion, agents, lawyers, engineers, studios, studio gear, retailer, the retailers expenses and the countless other people that are involved with running a label's business.

So really the artists shouldn't care much if their CD's are being pirated or not, it's all just a tool for them, when they go out on the road is when they make the money they deserve.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


May 29, 2002 11:19 pm

It is kinda funny to think a band make's more money selling T-shirt's then it does selling CD's.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


May 30, 2002 05:39 am

HA! peeps think that CD's are over priced...have you seen the price on a concert t-shirt lately, holy shiznit! That's the real crime.

Chief Cook and Bottle Washer
Member
Since: May 10, 2002


May 30, 2002 10:05 am

When I grow up I want to be like Joe Francis. Pop your top and I'll give you a T-shirt!

Member
Since: Apr 05, 2002


May 30, 2002 10:56 am

Ya know, the artists shouldn't care, but the funny thing is that the label doesn't make as much of an investment as you might think, especially for new bands. They will usually forward them the money for a the studio time and all that, but they have to pay it back. If they don't sell enough records to cover the cost then they are screwed, it comes out of their own pocket. Now, for more established acts, I agree to some extent. They really do make their money on the road. Hell Jimmmy Buffet hasn't had a hit since the mid 80's nad he is one of the most highly paid perfromers because he tours every year. He sells every concert out.
And it is sad that t-shirts make more than cd's. I used to like to pick up a t-shirt when I went to a concert, just as a little something to remember the show. Now anymore! The shirts are $25.00 and up, and the worst thing is they are cheap shirts in the sense that you know they are going to fall apart. I had read an article with Garth Brooks, regardless of it you like country you can learn some great things from people like him. ANyways, he reduced his profit on his shits instead opting for a higher quality t-shirt that last two to three times longer than the average concert t-shirt. Thus making him image more visible and giving him more advertising for longer. Great idea if you ask me.
Marc (da Sharc)

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


May 30, 2002 11:04 pm

Ok, the cheap T-shirt thing is really true. Besides being a gear hore, I am a T-shirt freak. I live in T-shirt's. I have some concert T's from the late 60's and early 70's that are still in good shape. My youngest 2 son's got Family Value's tour T's when we went back stage a few year's ago. Those T's are rag's now, and they were made by Jersey, a good name for T's, but they still are not as thick as my old one's.

It is such a pity, how the corperate pirate's just wreck everything.

Related Forum Topics:



If you would like to participate in the forum discussions, feel free to register for your free membership.