Mix of a band with female vocalist...
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Posted on Oct 31, 2005 08:33 am
dragonorchid
Sound Gal - Michelle
Member Since: Jul 11, 2005
er, warning, suggestive words in song ;-)
Please try comment on the mix. lol...
Yay KILLT!!! They are awesome.
um, blush (you'll understand when you listen to the words)
This is the mix I'm currently working on. Not quite finished yet. Any comments (on the mix... not the words) would be appreciated ;-)
www.michelleklaessens.com...terMemories.mp3
Do I have too much reverb on things?
BTW, the snare is my favourite I've ever recorded. A "Tama Imperial Star" with an sm 57 on it.
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Josh RoseJR ProductionsMember
Since: Mar 03, 2005
Oct 31, 2005 08:57 am Another great song/mix. Your makin me jealus...hehe. The snare does sound awesome. Reminds me of Carter Beauford's (of dave matthews band.Perfect pick for this genre. Im listening on computer speakers so I cant really comment to much about the mix but everything seems OK.
Oct 31, 2005 03:59 pm Cheers Josh :-)
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Oct 31, 2005 10:08 pm Michelle, love the tune. I'm jealous you have a nice variety of bands to record. The last few tracks worked on here have all been the same.
Anyway, down to business. The guitar tracks are the only thing I can hear so far that I would work the reverb over on. Did you add reverb to the guitar tracks on their own or are you adding reverb to the overall mix? If you reverbed the guitar tracks on their own And then added an overall verb to the final mix that might be what is kinda messin with the guitar. The vocals, drums and bass all sound great as do the backing vox. I'm trying to get a better listen to what it is that i'm hearing. On their own they sound great with the reverb on them, but once into the mix they fight a little bit. If there is verb on just the guitar track try bringing down the pre-delay and the density just little bit to kinda make it fit in a little with the main reverb, if you are using an overall reverb on top of the final mix.
Let me know if you have verb on just the guitar track, and its settings and I can maybe help you adjust it if there is a seperate verb on the guitar that is.
Otherwise I love the rest of the mix, and the tune. Her voice really fits that tune as well, she has a very good voice for that type of music. Very expresive. You caught her inflection very well on the vocals, I love it.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Nov 08, 2005 10:49 pm Its hard to believe thats the same band as in the video on their site. They are definately something I would buy.
I love the drums as well, nice driving kit for certain there. I gotta a/b the 2 versions tommorrow but if my memory isnt all bad it sounds like you really got it nailed on SweeterMemories this time. The guitars are settled in nicely and I can hear your back up vox well now.
Anticipation, leave the drums, they are not distracting at all, again they drive the tune along very well. Almost sound like a spendy jazz kit. I love the snare, nice ring. I know your gonna wanna smack me but during the chorus you need to quiet those guitars down a bit and let the rest of the stuff come through. Try and bring them down just a bit level wise and give em a bit of their own very lite reverb just during the chorus part. A real small room type with no pre-delay and only about 10% density with a very little bit of reflection. That should let them still hold a prominant place without drowning out the vox, drums and bass. Tone wise they are a perfect fit. Otherwise, another killer tune by these guys.
Nov 09, 2005 01:29 am It is hard to beleive it is the same band, they say their tastes are maturing, and so is their songwriting... A couple of years ago they recorded 2 songs with an exspensive producer at an expensive recording studio here in NZ, spending thousands of dollars but they said that they preferred my recordings of them (that will cost them around 2 to 3 hundred dollars per song), and that I'm the only one who has given the drummers beautiful "Tama Imperial Star" drum kit, probably a collectors item by now, any justice since he was in the UK. weird!
They are coming in to record again in a few weeks time, I can't wait!
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Nov 09, 2005 01:29 pm I've listened to both on my PC speakers and noticed both times that you may want to run the vocals through a de-essor. It may just be me, I can't do any real conclusive listening, so if I'm off, then please dis-regard, but I've heard other stuff through these little speakers and not noticed as much.
I also like the back vox being a little more up. Nice matching.
Very nice.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Nov 09, 2005 07:46 pm No De-Esser. The sibalance Michelle captured is very natural and sounds great. It accentuates the singers vocal talents. And it also fits very well with the type of music they are doing. Sometimes the little things that seem like they shouldnt be there will ruin the sound if taken out. In this case they fit axactly as they should adding character to the singers voice.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Nov 09, 2005 10:34 pm Michelle, just did the a/b on Sweeter Memories, about 8 times. I love that tune, very radio friendly as well I would say. The words might get by inuendo wise. But after listening the b version definately rocks for sure. I think you have it nailed for sure. Oh ya, did I say I love the wah all the way through this tune. Let the guitar player know he nailed it with his use of the wah there.
Listening to Anticipation again. I gotta agree with your comment about their music maturing. They have really takin things in an excellant direction for themselves. Your recordings of them make them sound as if they have been playing this type music for a long time, very tight and together.
Anyway, my above comments on the tune still are valid. Give that chorus guitar section a workover and this one will be as stunning as the other.
You are doing an excelant job on these recordings by the way. I love the sound you are getting from his drum kit. You do realize the Imperial Star is the kit Mike Portnoy from Dream Theatre used to play. His existing kit is still based off of it as well, although now the monster kit includes a second kit similar based on John Bonhams original Tama kit. It is beutiful. www.tama.com/artists/featured/portnoy.asp
Nov 10, 2005 01:00 am Wow, I didn't know that, I love dream theatre too!
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Nov 10, 2005 10:17 pm They have some other stuff out to like Liquid Tension Experiment and The Explorers Club. Both bands with members from Dream Theatre. Excelant progresive Fusion/Rock stuff and worth checking out. I've been a big Petruci fan for along time and have tried to get ahold of everything those guys have done.
Nov 11, 2005 05:28 am Yeah, definetly second that. Love Dream Theater and Liquid Tension, as well as King Crimson. Really awsome music. Would love to play stuff like that, but really hard to find other musicians with similar taste. Haven't heard Explorers Club, might have to check that out too.
Oh, and really nice mix dragonorchid! A newbie when it comes to mixing myself. Hope I can get my stuff to sound that good someday...
Nov 12, 2005 09:12 am Thank you Metal God! :-)
If your into metal, check out my Alpine Fault mixes my profile ;-)
They too are fans of dream theatre, and In Flames...
I'll check out those bands you mention Noize...
I love lots of bands, but one of my favourite has got to be Toto. I have all their stuff, and Steve Lukather's Solo stuff as well.
I've been known to collect Def Leppard and Van Halen too. I'm such an 80's gal!
Nov 12, 2005 10:19 am lol... I love chick singers. Awesome mix on that dragonorchild.
Kaos62Kaos is only a form of insanityMember
Since: Feb 03, 2005
Nov 12, 2005 11:15 am i couldn't agree more the snare is to die for. great overall drum mix, nice ride and one lovely sounding splash. I previously didn't rate tama but i am a converted soul after buying a 8" deep maple snare and am currently negotiating on a new tama kit _ perhaps you could come to northern france and record it for me LOL
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Nov 12, 2005 01:52 pm Hey Michelle, I am a closet Toto fan as well, mostly cause of Steves work there. And nothing wrong with a little 80's rock and stuff. I made a good living in the early 80's doing just that.
Anyway, anything happening with Anticipation. I wait with eager ears on that one. :-)
Nov 12, 2005 01:54 pm Quote:
I am a closet Toto fan as well
Oh, the shame, I'll never look at you the same again, Noize...I had no idea you were gay...
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Nov 12, 2005 02:20 pm LOL
Nov 12, 2005 02:27 pm I was going to say something smart alec about Noize2u's comment about the 80's, but I will refrain. =)
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Nov 12, 2005 02:35 pm Go ahead Kenneth, I am definately not easily insulted. And I do find much humor in some of my stage antics through the 70's and early 80's. It is nice to look back and chuckle now and then on how some of us looked and performed.
Dec 02, 2005 07:59 am Update:
Recorded 2 new songs with Killt last weekend. We are still waiting on doing vocals which will happen on Monday night. We will redo a few bits of the Anticipation vocal too... So I think we are looking at next weekend after or during my own recordings for more mixes and stuff :-)
In the mean time I'm working on this band Sonic:
www.michelleklaessens.com/Sonic_5am.mp3
Also a female vocalist with lovely warm tones.
They got me to do this roughish mix quickly for them so they could take it home and think about it for the album they have decided to do with me. The lead gats are too loud at the moment, but I'll fix that hopefully soon.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Dec 02, 2005 10:02 pm The singer has an interesting voice. Chrissie Hynde crossed with Gwen Stephani. Nice gritty guitar's and open sounding drum's. Cant wait to hear the finish on this one. I like the tune as well, nice uptempo beat stay's interesting. The bass seem's to be competing with the toms a little, but it is a rouhg mix as you said.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Dec 22, 2005 08:16 pm Hey Michelle. I kinda liked the original mix better, honestly. The vocal's were much more present and the guitar's although gritty were much more suited to the tune. the new mix sound's very bottom heavy and I think I would blame it on the tom's ringing quite loudly, and long as well. It appears to be drowning out the guitar's, vox, and the bass as well.
I guess I honestly liked the sound of the original, A lot brighter vox and drum's. I wonder if you pushed the max to high or something, as it almost sounds like it's pumping when the verse vox start.
Dec 26, 2005 03:48 am okidoki, I'll work on it... will bring the vox up, and decrease the toms... in the mean time: here's another one:
www.michelleklaessens.com/Sonic_TalkToMe.mp3
If you like pop songs, you'll hopefully like this one... I think it's adorable. I wish I could sing like Nikki :-)
Dec 26, 2005 03:59 am opps, too much reverb, Back to the drawing board....
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Dec 26, 2005 08:17 pm I just listened to Talk to Me and I am not sure if you fixed it allready or what. But if there is too much verb it is only a tiny bit too much. I agree with you for sure on her vox, she has got a very delicate, yet out front voice. Fits the music perfectly. The vox definately dont have too much reverb, at least on the verse part. Very nice capture of her voice for sure. I'll have to listen a little better later to that one.
5 am, back to the nice defanition again on all the tracks. Again, I am going to listen a little better tommorrow, but it sounds much better, vox stand out as they should again, and the tom's ar not ringing out like they did in mix B.
Dec 27, 2005 12:14 am i hear nothing wrong whatsoever. this is a great mix. so clear and transparent. thats what strikes me.
you people are superhumans. im going into a back room to yell at my pod and tear my hair out
lol
Dec 27, 2005 06:34 am Cheers guys! Noize, I did fix the reverb thing on talk to me. Turns out I had two reverbs on at the same time on the vocal track. I'm thinking the snare drum sounds quite "ceramic" on the harder songs, and it sounds completely different on "Talk to me" because it was recorded with a different snare.
Toms are still abit too loud in 5 am perhaps... Actually I think it might be too much reverb on the drums for the harder tracks... hmmm.
Well... just when you though you had enough time to breath, here's another one!! lol.
www.michelleklaessens.com...xdown_noBvs.mp3
That reminds me that they still have to come in to record the BVs for this.
alright, 3 almost down from Sonic and 7 to go...
;-)
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Dec 27, 2005 09:04 pm Good Enough, I see what you mean about the snare. The hi hat however sounds splendid. I wonder if that is adding to the ring/ceramic sound of the snare though. A bit differant guitar tone there on the rythm parts. They have some real bottom end on them, and sound kinda cool with the bass going right with them. It reminds me a bit of a band called Green Jelly.
Reverb could indeed be an issue in 5 am. That would empahsize the ringing of the toms for sure. Do you still have the tom tracks dry? If so try compressing them a bit harder, give them more punch without the ring by using a pretty short release time. If you have a multiband comp try taking a little of the top out till the ring subsides. Then add back a touch of reverb if it needs it. IF your adding reverb on the final mix you may not even need any on the toms at all.
Dec 28, 2005 02:33 am Cheers Noize :-)
Another one!!
WARNING, KLEENEX TISSUES REQUIRED!:
www.michelleklaessens.com...xdown_NoBvs.mp3
Such a sad, sweet song. Wrenching at my heart strings and tear ducts. May require some de-essing, but I'm getting a bunch of pre mixes done for the album so that they can take it away and tell me if they want anything changed/remixed/re-recorded, So I will make all changes to the final mixes later.
I better go find a box of tissues before I continue mixing all of Sonic's softer songs (sniffle).
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Dec 28, 2005 08:44 pm Michelle, be sure and tell Nikki she gave me goose bumps with that one! She does have a wonderfully haunting voice. I dont know that I would de-esse to much as that is a lot of the character of her voice and it is really only present in that very first verse part. I cant wait to hear this with the BV's added.
Is that a real french horn or a synth, or a tweaked up guitar. Sounds like a french horn to me.
When the rest of the band kicked in it kind of took me by surprise that it waited that long to happen. And I wasnt ready for the heavy bottom end of it. But after a second listen it sounded great. I as well liked the dead stop ending, well done.
And you got a very good sound on the acoustic guitar as well I might add.
Dec 29, 2005 07:17 pm If I remember correctly it is the guitar volume knob being turned slowly on an off whilst holding a note with lots of reverb on it... now that you mention it, it does sound like a french horn, never thought of it that way before... probably coz i saw it being recorded! lol.
Here's another one, Still a very early mix. I already have some adjustment in mind.
www.michelleklaessens.com...xdown_rough.mp3
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Dec 29, 2005 11:10 pm Very cool indeed then. Nice effect sounding like a french horn. I would have sworn it was real or a synth.
I will give the new one a listen tommorrow as I'm actually gona try and get to bed by midnite tonight.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Dec 30, 2005 05:45 pm OOOOO, I like the side stik, very nice subtle ring on it. And the kick is very soft and subtle as well, fits in nicely. Maybe a little on the quiet side but it is definately there and not masked. A nice quiet punch to it. Though now when the chorus kicks in the drums sound maybe a little bit low, but only a tiny bit if any. The snare is there though, maybe its just me. Again Nikki's voice sounds great in this tune, the harmonies are good as well. Nice full body sound on the acoustic as well. Are those 2 seperate acoustic tracks or did you double up? It sounds great whatever you did. Wonderfull song for sure.
Jan 03, 2006 06:18 am Wooppeee! I think I've finally cracked Mastering! Everyone should read that Tutorial "The Mastering Process" www.har-bal.com/mastering_process.php by Earle Holder that DB has put on the "Recording Tips" Section of this website (Thanks DB!!). I went through the tutorial step by step (this is an invaluable tutorial!) and here is the result with the latest Sonic mix:
www.michelleklaessens.com...n_perhapsBV.mp3
Let me know what you think :-)
I'm stoked coz it's as loud as Hoobastank's first album (I'm using "Running Away" as a commercial reference for this song), and sounds nice and warm too. I've also used a de-esser for the first time on Nikki's vocal in this mix.
lol. Now I'm gonna have to remaster everything! :-O
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Jan 03, 2006 02:32 pm I was worried when you mentioned the de-esser but you seem to have gotten it just right without taking away from the parts I think really emphasize the dramatics of her voice. Nice job there for sure. It just softened the sibilance just a bit.
The rest of the tune sounds great as well, yourelaly got some great bottom end on the entier mix without mudding it up. I like the guitars, very busy but not over bearing, keeps it interesting. The drums turned out well. A bit quieter but very present in the mix.
Excellant job indeed. Definately a record I would buy!
Jan 03, 2006 10:35 pm yeah, deessing was actually scary. When I did it I had to undo about 5 different times (thank goodness for unlimited undos) because everytime it was too obvious. Finally settled on about 6dB off a band centred around 7000 Hz, after listening to the side chain.
On otherside, they are two different acoustic guitar tracks, and there are two of each of those panned in various positions throughout the mix. Can you beleive those high BVs are Nikki's Partner, Amos (the main songwriter in the band)... He often does these really cool high harmonies with Nikki.
I hope to finish most of Sonic's album by the end of January, though just today they told me they want to add a couple more songs, and yesturday i just got the main vocals finished on two more of Killt's songs, and Mars redid some of the vocals that were buggin me on Anticipate.... So more Killt for you soon.
I was just thinking, that these two bands are actually quite similar in make up. The age range in the bands are about 23 to 40! The drummers in both these bands are older, very experienced musicians, and the female vocalists have both got really nice warm voices. Amos (Sonic) and Martin (Killt), both bass players both do wicked BVs, and the guitarists have really nice guitar sounds.
Seriously, I'm in mixing heaven, because I absolutely LOVE both these bands! And I feel really lucky that they are getting me to do their albums. Just gave them each other's contact details so they can do some gigs together in the near future hopefully!
gosh I'm rambling! It's so nice to be finally doing something I love fulltime! yay ;-)
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Jan 03, 2006 10:48 pm Well your doing a great job for them. And I must say wow then on the BV on that track. They sound great, and it doesnt sound as though he is straining at all to get there.
Jan 04, 2006 09:51 pm Thanks Noize!
You asked about the remix of Killt's "Anticipation" earlier in the thread: Well here it is, with Mar's new vocals installed and my keyboards and backing vocals added and adjusted. I also decreased reverb alot on the drums, and some on the vocals:
www.michelleklaessens.com...n_Mixdown_D.mp3
Killt are being really nice and have told me I can add as many keyboards and bvs as I like to any of their songs! good fun :-D
My only thought is that the volume of the vocal between verse and chorus seems to jump. I may have to fix that. Used a similar mastering process to the last Sonic song, and the same reference.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Jan 05, 2006 09:21 pm Yep, I downloaded it last night and sure enough there is a pretty drastic differance between the verse and chorus vox. The chorus is way low. It seems that Mars vocal is a bit low when it kicks back in at 2:20 as well, but maybe that was just me?? If at all it is pretty tiny but I couldnt listen really loud so I cant get a good handle on it.
I love that snare sound, very metalic and clear. Sounds like an old copper snare I owned years ago. I love the rest of the mix as well. Again you got a great guitar sound as well.
Jan 06, 2006 05:09 am www.michelleklaessens.com...o_Mixdown_A.mp3
Still fairly early mix, I might add some keyboards next, as requested by the band... already added some pretty weird bvs.
Beleive it or not, this is the same snare as the previous songs EQ'd differently. Yeah, I absolutely love that snare! 9 inch deep maple birdseye... mmmmm looks like a tom!!
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Jan 06, 2006 08:16 pm Jeez michelle, I am jealous indeed. Such nice bands to work with. I love the BV's for sure, I would not call them wierd at all. They fit very nicely. I love the guitar sounds again, differant and interesting. And indeed the snare sounds completely differant. Are you sure thats the same snare?? :-)
Anyway, the mix sounds like its coming along nicely, very good as is.
olddogMember
Since: Jul 02, 2003
Jan 07, 2006 03:11 am I've listened to all of the mixes and really all of them are nice sounding. You've really got a knack for getting a nice sound Michelle. Have to agree with You and Noize, you've got some great bands to works with.
Dan
Jan 08, 2006 07:42 am Thanks Noize and Dan :-)
More goodies soon...
Jan 24, 2006 05:46 am Another Sonic song:
www.michelleklaessens.com...y_Mixdown_A.mp3
They've recorded 10 songs for the album now. Probably a couple to go. Now I have to hunker down into mixing them all to a state that will be happy with. Probably means remixing everything, and adjusting to match each other too...
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Jan 25, 2006 07:10 pm Very clean sounding, even the distorted guitars have a nice full clean feel to them. I love the vox, both verse and chorus sound great. No real heavy reverb on the verse either, sounds great and melts together with the rest of the instruments nicely.
What is the guitar in the right channel, it appeasr to be the prominant rhthym guitar on that side. Almost sounds like a semi hollow body, with vinatge pickups. Either way, very nice tone on all guitars, but that one caught my ear!
Give the; band my compliments on a very well done tune.
