Why, oh why?
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Posted on May 16, 2002 01:46 am
MSHARC
Member Since: Apr 05, 2002
Ok, this came from a little bit of the post from Walt "GGRRRRR." What I want to know, is why is it so hard to find musicians that knwo what it is to BE a musician, not just play their instrument, but to actually MAKE music. I am in my mid twenties and I have figured this out, and I wonder why others my age can not. First, being the best at YOUR instrument is awesome, but why do you have to prove it every time you play? I ahve played with so many peoiple that every time they play, they think that it THEIR show and want to show off every single chance they get. I fi cna give one piece of advice to newer musicians its that sometimes less really is more. Drummers a re a great example. I jammed with a guy tonight that every other beat was some fill and every down beat had a crash with it. What the hell? I am a drummer and what I learned is that the BEAT and the TIMING are the most important things. The rest is gravy. Get in the pocket with the bass player and THEN worry about fills. Guitarists can be the same way, every other measure is a lead part. Plus, every guitarist I have seen wants to make sure EVERYONE can hear them! What happened to "dynamics?" If its a ballad, play it like one. I think every musician should have to learn how to run a sound board so they see what a pain in the butt a loud stage colume is. Bass players...you're cool, most of you are great. Slap if you want, as long as its in the right key, more power to you, cause most of you are grove masters.
My whole point is this...its music, try to make it sound musical. I will play with "OK" musicians any day over those I just described. I think maybe having a background in most of these areas has helped me realize that people like music, not a bunch of sounds.
"And that's all I have to say about that."
Marc (da Sharc)
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May 16, 2002 07:20 am I couldn't agree more, back in high school in my first band or two everyone needed their "solo(s)" and had to cover the best, most intricate tunes that none of us were good enough to play anyway :-), but we all had the ego thing going...
Years later I bump into my old mates and one or two of them are still the same way, it totally cracks me up, every song has to be a masterful piece of art and so intricate that it gets to be no fun to play...and since they can't write music like that, they are still covering the same "Rush" songs that we did in high school...hahahaha, oh well, better them than me. It'll be a cold day in hell before I play in another cover band. I wanna make music, not just play music.
In all fairness, the band I am goofing on is actually a very good Rush tirbute band, I will give them that, but for the love of God, Rush already exists, make something new!
I almost never refer to myself as a "Bass Player" or anything like that, I am a musician and a songwriter...
MSHARCMember
Since: Apr 05, 2002
May 16, 2002 09:57 am I couldn't agree more. While I really loved RUSh, and still like them a lot nad respect them tremendously, the msuic does not usually translate very well for an audience, and you're right, they already exisit. Now, that being said there are some covers that I really do enjoy playing, they're just fun, but for the most past, I truly want to make music. Even if its not that great, not many other people have the balls to even try. The biggest thing is that I am tired of "muisicians" that don't really know what it is to truly make music. I am young and I figured it out, I just wish a few others close to my age would as well. Sorry, rant s over. :)
Marc (da Sharc)
May 16, 2002 10:18 am rant away, that's why I built this other forum :-)
And don't get me wrong, even the greatest bands choose a handful of kickass covers, that's cool stuff, but there is a big difference between a band that plays some covers and a cover band...and in my mind, even below the cover band level is the "tribute band"...that tribute band crap just drives me nuts, if I wanted to see Rush, I would go see Rush...I pretty much look at most tribute bands as Vegas acts that open up for the Elvis impersonators...
But, on the flip side, their all better off than not playing at all...that is the real shame...
If a cover band or tribute band is what makes ya happy, great knock yourself out, but as a rule, in the music business you can only get so far playing other people music exclusively. And you generally don't get the respect of the rest of the local music scene in your area as a cover. I know in the Twin Cities, it's a pretty slim chance of ever playing the great room like First Avenue (made famous by Prince's "Purple Rain" movie) as a cover band...original only in there...
know what I mean?
As far as Rush in particular, I am sick to death of them and have been since high school (some 12 years ago now) like you said, I hate every song having to say "look how talented we are", every now and then I like to hear an AC/DC 4 chord rock monster!
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
May 16, 2002 11:18 am Mr. Shark,
I would love to jam with you! For you to figure out what you have in your twenties is a significient accomplishement. I tell folks to read articles on Charlie Haden, Christian McBride, Joco, etc. You don't have to appreciate the jaunra. Those boys have been around long enough to get the ego out! They know how to work like a fine clock! All the gears mesh and are there on time! Music is the space between! My pet peave is the church organist. Played their whole life in solo mode. Have had the luxery of bending tempo bar etc at will. They pound so the singers can tune to the pitch. They have always been center stage. Now fit into the rythem section!.....RIGHT! Its a lot easier to play a lot of notes than be held back to 2 & 4 for fourty measures at a tempo under 80 as a bass player. But the old boys not only do it and on time but they make it sound good. They don't sound bored! Rock is rythem, not too much more in many cases. The masters know when to be there and when not too! If your playing to get laid you will probably wake up in a few years divorced because you drug home that guitar players girlfriend just before she passed out!
Gota quite. I agree too much and want to babble too much!
May 16, 2002 12:24 pm im buying a dictionary for this forum =)
but i understand what youre all saying and i agree. i dont consider myself a player of any one instrument, i am a songwriter. i dont do any of them to any degree of excellance, but i do all of them to the point where they sound appropriate for the music.
and then there are tributes.
im sick of all the tribute discs lately. there are very few groups who seriously deserve them. the industry needs to set some limits on it; things like:
1) the artist must be deceased or
2) been around since before you were born or
3) has done something extreme and ground breaking.
now i go to the store and see tributes to bands that have been out for a couple of years.
May 16, 2002 12:41 pm maybe one of the threads in this forum should be a "Community Dictionary"
Now I have to go start putting together my Hanson Tribute Band...hehehe...later...
MSHARCMember
Since: Apr 05, 2002
May 16, 2002 12:45 pm On a side note to this thread, I was watching VH1 last night and guess what was on...Divas. Ok, there are a few great female singers, and I like some of them. But, I can not STAND Mariah Carey. She is so FULL of herself. I admit that I look up to people who have "made it" in the music business, but they are not larger than life to me. They are just some people that probably got lucky, or in Mariah's case, she let someone get lucky with her. I am not saying that she is not a good singer. Not my personal taste, but I can respect her ability. But I think living an image and then truly believing in are two different things. Personally, I can't wait until I see her on "Where are they now?" Just my two cents. At least "Daimond Dave" was funny and used his ego as a good stage tool. He just got carried away. I promise if I "make it," I'll still come here and talk crap! :) lol
Marc (da Sharc)
May 16, 2002 12:51 pm I agree with you on the Mariah thing, great singer, absolutely, but geez, we don't have to hear that incredible vocal range in every song...
And how on earth did her boobs grow so fast? :-)
On the flip side, I think it was pretty funny that her former label gave her 28 million to go away...21 million for signing, then her movie bombed, the soundtrack bombed, she "had a breakdown" (that's industry speak for "lost her marbles") and then they gave her another 28 million to cut their losses and buy out of her contract...
I wish someone would give me 28 million to go away...heck, I'd go away for 2 million.....
[size=3]Diamond Dave is the king, baby![/size]
arrogant, hell ya, but at least he was a good showman and a lot of fun to watch...VanHalen went to hell after him. I love Sammy Hagar, but not with Van Halen...
My wife and I are going to try to catch the Sam and Dave show whenever we get the chance...I don't see a Minnesota date yet...
May 16, 2002 12:55 pm tbey say the first million is the hardest to make.
and yea..id settle for a couple million myself but if theyre paying the 28 million to go away bit.. then im off to harass some label people until they cant stand me. =)
MSHARCMember
Since: Apr 05, 2002
May 16, 2002 01:24 pm I personally think she had the breakdown when she realized that she wasn't really all that. If it was possible to get paid for simply going away I'd hit on women at bars and see if I could amke some cash! lol Which makes me think of something...I do that a lot. When we all first started playing, I figure most of us were probably teenagers, what was the reason? I know the reason for me was that I thought chics would dig it. I have spent hours, months, years playing and practicing. I feel jipped! I have not poicked up a single women because of my music. Not to say that I haven't had women, I'm not totally socially incompetent, but what the hell? I guess if you're not playing areana style venues then you're not getting some action. I guess I am just curious to see if ayone can honestly say they have picked up a chic BECAUSE they were a musician. If you had, maybe I'm just really ugly! lol I'd like to think its just because I am so talented that they feel intimidated to talk to me, but I have a feeling its more of the first reason. lol
Marc (da Sharc)
May 16, 2002 01:54 pm hah chicks do dig the music thing.. but its a little easier in the teenage years to pull that off. if you are playing larger shows, that helps. =P
May 16, 2002 02:04 pm the bigger the audience the greater the chance, basic math...put out the "I'm a rock star, do me" to 10 women or to 1000 women you have a 100% better chance of getting one the 1000 women room...
My most popular band was playing the bigger venues after I got married, so, well, I didn't take advantage of the women thing, but I did get plenty of free booze n' stuff.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
May 16, 2002 11:00 pm I'm not gettin brace's for a Hanson tribute band. And for female singer's with range, Christina A. can blow Ms. C. right out of there. she might be a little flakey, but what babe in the bussiness is not. I personally would rather go see Heather Nova, or someone like that, Enya or anyone with actual talent, not over produced shlock.
Marc, congrat's on waking up before the world can learn to hate you. It is not every day that happen's. I played in band's for year's and never really got to play what I wanted, only what would sell. But alas that is another story for another time.
It might be easier in the teen year's, but even in my mid 40's, I love to crank up a synth in a music store and watch the younger girl's and guy's who are still afriad to be heard gather around and stare. It get's even better when someone else join's in and you create something new right in front of their ear's. The smile's on the face's is enough for me these day's, and knowing that some of them are going to go and try to match that sound, because it got to them and made them feel something.
MSHARCMember
Since: Apr 05, 2002
May 17, 2002 11:04 am Me personally, I like being almost shy about playing. I feel like the only time I have an ego is when I am on stage. Normally I am rather quite and such, but I'll do or soay anything when I am on stage. I told a friend after I saw this really hot chic in a bar one night that I wish I had the balls to just walk up to her and start talking, but I'm not like that. (I think they call it being a wuss) But, if I had a guitar in my hand, I'd been all over that thing. I'd shamelessly use my position as the person holding the mic to try to get the hook up. I've done it before and I most vertanly will do it again. Now, like I said, I've never gotten a chic BECAUSE i could play music, ya know, no groupies or anything, but I have used it to help me meet women before.
Now that I went off on a streme tangent and been rather loquacious (break out the dictionary) about my exploits. What I meant to really say was that while I am reserved personally when it comes to music, I'm not. I dig it when someone starts playing something at a store or wherever and you jump in and this spontaneous thing emerges and takes shape. I think when of the big tragedies is that music is so great, influences almost everyone since they listen to a radio or what have you, yet schools are cutting music programs at schools. Now, I agree that they need math and other things badly, but its been shown that kids who learn to play music excel in other ares such as math. It wasn't the school band that got me interested in music, I'd probably still be where I am without it, but it did teach me to appreciate lots of different styles of music, especially classical music and such that we always played.
Ok, I went on long enough. In all that, I lost my conclusion. This'll have to do. :)
Marc (da Sharc)
LokiCone PokerMember
Since: Apr 07, 2002
May 17, 2002 04:27 pm You know Marc, i totally see what you're saying. I've been in and out of bands a lot and I'm only 17. I leave a lot of them becuase they all want to be someone else, or it's just for them to feed their ego. I know, and anyone who has heard me play knows, that I am a very good guitarist (not trying to brag here) but when I write music I don't sit down and write like I would in just a Jam session. I try to write music,not something that screams *wow, listen to that guitar* sometimes it's just 4 chords over, then a bridge, then the 4 chords again with very little change. Music to me is an expression of emotion... not how loud we can crank our marshal stacks with distortion... unless of course that's the emotion you're going for.
MSHARCMember
Since: Apr 05, 2002
May 17, 2002 04:40 pm Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, there are times when just a screamin, balls to the wall hard core almost punk thing can rock. But look at groups like AC/DC. I think they got their stiff together. I think he can play a kick butt guitar solo, but he's very riff oriented and that is cool. I also like listening to technically great music. Though dB may not enjoy them anymore, I still like listening to RUSH. What irritates me is when people try to play like them all the time. They are RUSH, let them do it. I guess the key to everything is really just moderation. But I think musians as a whole, maybe because music has changed and now it seems as if everyone picks up a guitar, learns a few chords and calls themself a musician, but them seem to have become dilluted. I personally like Green Day, but it I can't sit there and listen to them all the time. I know some guys that ahve that mentality as well and its play balls to the wall all the time. I think a lot of it is because they just don't know HOW to play any other way. But things that I feel have become lost in most musicians today is dynamics, phrasing, tastefulness. I doubt most players today know what stacato, leggato, crescendo, retard (maybe they know that one :), or many of the other things that make music something more than just a bunch of chords strewn together in a nice way. I am not saying that I am all of that, but I strive for it and I think that's what may one day seperate me from toher people. The difference between playing all out and knowing WHEN to play all out is something that not many people know. If you're a good band, the sound man has to do little work to have a lead guitar solo, or a subtle keyboard part, ro bea herad because the other members in the group should quiet down. I think these are things that most musicians don't learn until they have played for awhile. Maybe I was just lucky in that I played with people 2-3 times my age at a young age, but I feel I was lucky enough to listen. This thread has continued on for awhile now, but I hope that maybe someone newer might read this and maybe mentally digest it and think about the next time they are jamming or creating. Then I'll feel as if maybe it was a justified mean of my time.
Marc (da sharc)
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
May 19, 2002 04:22 pm I like the comment about the Marshal Stack. Sometime's the pure raw distortion is what you want, but look at someone like Carlos Santana, Pure raw distortion and sustian that can go on forever it seem's. He has alway's been the purest displayer of emotion and power all at once. But the funny thing is he manage's all that power and distortion and energy from one little bitty Mesa Boogie. Now grant it he play's with the finest hand built guitar's and the amp is tweaked, but I am willing to bet he could do the same with what you and I have right at our finger tip's.
