Sound Proofing Questions!

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Member Since: Sep 04, 2005

I know there was another kid asking about this before, but mines a little different.

I desperately need to soundproof a room for drums, as I have received visits from the authorities!

Basically I have decided to Build a drum room, which will sit in the middle of my stuio apartment. or along the wall to the outside.

This is How i plan to build it:

About 6 1/2 ft tall, and 7 wide and about 6 ft deep.

The walls will be Ply-wood, on the inside of the wall 2 x 4's will be nailed in at 18 1/2 inch increments.

So if your look at the wall from the inside the 2x4's creat stripes 18 1/2 inches apart.

each wall will be like that (or close). in between the 2x4's on the inside I will place Pizza boxes, ones folded as if there was a pizza in it, and then over the boxes I will staple Memory Foam (like the stuff for beds).

On the outside I will do the same, but no 2 x 4's.

now it has to be Mobile, so I was thinking of making it collapsable. By affixing Hinges along the Corners of the room, allowing me to take the foam and pizza boxes out and just fold it closed.

The ceiling would just be a larger peice of plywood then the rest of the room, and just rest on top of the walls, with the same foam and pizzabox set-up.

Its a little hard to explain, but basically it comes down to this, its a Cube and each wall from the outside to the inside is this:

Foam | Pizzabox | Plywood | Pizzabox | Foam.

as for getting in and out, i would have a door behind me, and 3 or 4 thick blankets draped in front of the door (the door will be just wide enough for me to sneak through like 1 1 1/2 ft wide).

Ideas? thoughts? Is this Good?

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Member
Since: Sep 04, 2005


Oct 18, 2005 08:16 am

the door is 1 1/2 ft wide, not 11 1/2 ft. oops.

Eat Spam before it eats YOU!!!
Member
Since: May 11, 2002


Oct 18, 2005 09:09 am

As a drummer...

well... if the door is 18" wide then you will have a hard time fitting the kick drum through...

plus you still need to fit room treatment on the walls as plywood is very refelective.

...anyway... for apartment use I think I would strongly suggest triggers... and then muffle everything. You could sample the set before hand if it really has amaizing tone.

Triggers would be less expensive to do properly, less headache, and yeild a better (and more flexable) result.

Plus the nemises of drum sound proofing is the snare drum as it can project for a couple blocks. I havn't really tried hard for sound proofing as my "recording shed" is fairly remote. But I would think you would need a couple layers of thick drywall, insulation, and maybe lead. My shed has 23/32" OSB pannels with thick insulation and another 1/2" plywood panel and it doesn't really stop the snare.... but it's a hundred yards from the closest house so the dampening is enough.


Member
Since: Sep 04, 2005


Oct 18, 2005 09:14 am

Alright. would you suggest Dry wall then over the Plywood?

I cant use muffling, because I'll be recording. But whats these triggers you speak of?

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Oct 18, 2005 09:22 am

Well, I'd suggest that it won't be mobil, cuz it will be heavy as hell...furthermore it won't be sound proof. You are likyl better off seeing if you can get oversized vocal booths that are made pre-fab, much lighter and will be about as sound proofed (not very) but will be tuned.

I agree with the reflective nature of plywood. if you are insistent on building your own, thin carpeting on the inside can help tune a bit, I'd put drywall on either side and thin carpet or aound foam on the inside covering 50% of the wall space.

Oh, and what's the pizza box theory?

Member
Since: Sep 04, 2005


Oct 18, 2005 09:29 am

Well the Pizza boxes are just soundproofing materials, the cardoard and the open space inside the box in THEORY i think, will do a prett good job will slowing down Sound Waves, But its kind of a theory.

I havent really tested it, but I have confidence that it will do a good job will dampening the sound.

Soundproofing needs dense materials and air to be effective right? So the Pizza Boxes act as kind of air gaps, then combined with the face that the cube itself a room inside a room, I THOUGH it would be a good idea. but its justa though.

Vocal Booth? Where do I get something like that, and What are triggers?

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Oct 18, 2005 09:31 am

Pizza boxes will do nothing...nor will egg crates, just FYI.

booths www.soundsuckers.com/10x16.htm#10x16

Member
Since: Sep 04, 2005


Oct 18, 2005 09:32 am

Oh and as Far as Mobile, Its not like I'll be taking it everwhere, Its just when I move from one place to another I want it collapsable so I can transport it, though it might just be less of a pain to re-build it when moving to a new home.

But again, whats this Vocal booth thing, and what is a trigger?

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Oct 18, 2005 09:33 am

a trigger would be a MIDI deviceon your drum, mute the drum but when you hit it it would trigger a MIDI drum sound...essentially it make a real acoustic drum kit into an eletronic drum kit.

That would be my recommendation as well.

Member
Since: Sep 04, 2005


Oct 18, 2005 09:35 am

It sounded so good on paper... oh well.

The vocal booths are FAR out of my price range. unless there is a cheeper place to get em.

What kinds of materials do you suggest for this than?

Dont worry about mobility. it just needs to be big enough to have a Drum Kit (snare, bass, one rack tom, one floor tom, ride and two crash) and one person.


Member
Since: Sep 04, 2005


Oct 18, 2005 09:36 am

I see. But wouldnt the sound be DRASTICALLY inferior to a live kit? I hate that drum machine sound with a passion.

The Eternal Student
Member
Since: Oct 08, 2005


Oct 18, 2005 09:44 am

Holy crap, I can't believe how much they charge for sound-proofing foam and stuff. $30 for a 4 square foot ceiling tile?!?! That's more expensive (per square foot) than brazilian cherry hardwood flooring...lol: www.emeraldhardwoodfloors...;SKU=AMZ-S12003

What is this world coming to?


Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Oct 18, 2005 09:48 am

No, not if you trigger a set of high quality samples and velocity sensitivity...it'll never be a live kit, but it's far from DRASTICALLY inferior...and it doesn't get the cops called to your house either. I hate the sound of lame drum machines, some of the sample-based software drum machines are awesome.

Member
Since: Sep 04, 2005


Oct 18, 2005 10:04 am

What are good triggers, and I would assume I have to use some sort of software with the triggers. Whats good for that?

Also, I was looking up sound proof rooms and found <a href="soundproofing.org/infopag...;This</a>

This looks promising. Thoughts?

Member
Since: Sep 04, 2005


Oct 18, 2005 10:05 am

oops
soundproofing.org/infopag...ontrol_room.htm

Member
Since: Sep 23, 2005


Oct 18, 2005 12:22 pm

Comforters.

Go get king size comforters and hang them on the inside walls of the room. Or if you get daring enough, the poly-fil quilting filler works great. Staple it to the inside wall, and hang dark blue or black denim over them loosely so the fabric can wave and swing over the poly-fil.

Snoop around garage sales for people selling comforter blankets. Watch out for the skunky smell of people's nastiness.

Member
Since: Sep 04, 2005


Oct 18, 2005 01:12 pm

Ok I've pretty much given up on the sound proof room idea and Come to the Conclusion that Triggers are the more economical and effective way to accomplish this.

I need a breif explanation of how these work, how i can get a drum track into Pro-tools using these.

Also I see trigger packs that snare, toms, and Bass. How does this work with cymbals?

Sound Gal - Michelle
Member
Since: Jul 11, 2005


Oct 19, 2005 07:30 am

Cutting and pasting from what I wrote on another thread:

For sound insulation/isolation, what you need is MASS. There is a mathematical formula for it somewhere...
Anyway, We made heavy baffles out of reasonably thick MDF boards, and put fibre glass sound insulation bats (pink bats like the stuff you put in your attic for insulation) on one side, with material over the top. They work really well for cutting out sound. and you can make little booths out of them to isolate instruments...
bu also, you can make these as big as you like, but you may need more than one person to carry them, unless you make them fixed somehow...

Member
Since: Sep 23, 2005


Oct 19, 2005 11:06 am

Okay. I kinda sorta kinda did a little design while here at work. Call it a "Guvment Job".

This should be a large enough inside area to be able to assemble a drumkit, place microphone stands, and have enough room to wiggle around for making adjustments. My drummer's got a huge full double-bass kit, four rack toms, two floor toms, around 13 or so cymbals and two hihats. His kit comfortably fits in a 6' by 8' floorspace.

Make ten 3-foot by 6-foot wall partitions, and three 3-foot by 6'-9" ceiling partitions. Use construction adhesive (glue in a caulking gun) to guarantee airtight seals. Fill the partitions with insulation. Use latches to connect them all together. Get some of that sticky door insulation stripping, and use that to guarantee that each partition is absolutely sealed to the next one when you assemble them. Make one panel the door, and get three hinges and a simple handle. Get a gate latch for inside to close it securely.

Drawings showing the construction method and dimensions:


http://mywebpages.comcast.net/Bryan316/Drumroom1.jpg



http://mywebpages.comcast.net/Bryan316/Drumroom2.jpg



http://mywebpages.comcast.net/Bryan316/Drumroom3.jpg



Bill Of Materials:

6 pieces - 2x4 stud 6'-9"
3 pieces - 2x4 stud 6'-2"
20 pieces- 2x4 stud 6'
10 pieces- 2x4 stud 5'-9"
20 pieces- 2x4 stud 2'-9"
6 pieces - 2x4 stud 2'-5"

20 pieces- MDF board 1/2" thk 3' x 6'
6 pieces - MDF board 1/2" thk 3' x 6'-9"

20 pieces- Insulation 5'-9"
6 pieces - Insulation 6'-2"
152ft worth total

28 pieces- Latch ( www.partsexpress.com/pe/s...tnumber=262-210 )

3 pieces - 3" standard door hinge
1 piece - 4" simple door handle

Then get some comforters on sale, get a grommet setting too from Michael's, put grommets into the corners and top edge of the comforters, and some screws to hang them to the insides of the walls. Also, consider getting some kind of lighting to install in the ceiling partitions to be able to see your drumkit. Make sure that if they install into the partitions, that you pre-run your wiring before finishing the construction process.

I guarantee you that this will be an expensive endeavour. But remember.... once you build this, it'll be incredibly strong and efficient. And you can use it for recording! Think of all the guitarists who would love to rent this portable soundroom to record their stuff!

There. Now... go to Home Depot and spend your money on manly stuff. Ahh... I wish I needed to build one of these, just to build it!!! ARGH!!!

Hold 'Em Czar
Member
Since: Dec 30, 2004


Oct 19, 2005 11:15 am

ok you have a sortta delema here.....there's a huge difference between 'sound proofing' (keeping sound from escaping) and 'acoustically treating' (tuning a room for optimum sound for recording)

unfortuanetly these two treatments are inversely perportional....meaning the more you try to keep sound from escaping, the harder it will be to get a good sound inside the room and also on tape (er drive) when recording....

so i'd weigh out the pros and cons for your situation....if you have people over jammin' at night, then yeah this will hafta be addressed....an easy work around is simply to play earlier. but keep in mind, if your main goal is to get a good sound recorded...i'd consider recording somewhere else, or track durring the day in the garrage.

Sound Gal - Michelle
Member
Since: Jul 11, 2005


Oct 20, 2005 12:05 am

wyd has a good point there, I was talking about sound proofing which might be to the detriment of the acoustics of the room... hmmm.

Member
Since: Sep 23, 2005


Oct 20, 2005 11:04 am

As long as he still gets to play his drums, I'm sure he'll accept any acoustic flaws. I'd shoot myself if I couldn't jam!!!

Hold 'Em Czar
Member
Since: Dec 30, 2004


Oct 20, 2005 11:06 am

rock!

ahh veddy good point!...it'll be his job as the engineer to make the best outta what he's got.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Oct 20, 2005 07:25 pm

eatblueshell

One thing you also didnt take into account here is the fact even if you build an iso booth for the drums. It will be heavy and sitting on the floor. The drums sitting on the floor will simply transfer through the flooring and then procede through the ceiling of the apartment below.

I think ya see my point.

Only solution there is more expense as you suspend the thing off the floor with more acoutical de-coupling materials.

*sticado: short and LOUD!*
Member
Since: Feb 25, 2005


Oct 23, 2005 11:35 am

earlier u asked how triggers work... well, u set them up basically like an electric drumkit. the triggers hook on to the rims of ur drums and touch the batter head. this makes ur shells become pads (like in an E-kit). u need to get a module to create the sound because triggers dont pick up sounds, they only send an electric pulse. the best modules for ur situation would be the ones where u can record a sample of each drum on ur kit at different velocities to make ur kit sound real. assign the sounds to each drum, plug in, and record.

muffling ur kit wont effect the sound that ur tigger picks up (because, like i said before, they dont pick up sound). if u consider doing this, the only problem i can think of is that u wont be able to hear the true sound of ur drums, also if u play drums at shows... this could be bad. unless u have more then one kit.

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