? about classic master limiter
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Posted on Aug 03, 2005 06:36 am
keith jumawan
Member Since: Jul 25, 2005
im using the classic master limiter w/cubase and it works great! . . . but, the out-ceiling is set to -0.2 . . . is that to soft? . . . har-bal says set it at -0.1 . . . is there a way to change the out-ceiling in classic master limiter?
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Aug 03, 2005 06:50 am I set it at -0.3, some older CD players will clip at anyhting over -0.3. I never realizer HarBal said that, I am going to have to ask Earle why that is.
Any limiter should have an outceiling adjustment...though I am not familiar with Cubase's limiter, I can't be sure.
vdalehubbardLost for words with all to say.Contributor
Since: Sep 12, 2003
Aug 03, 2005 08:36 am Yeah, HarBal mastering tutorial says -0.1.
Aug 03, 2005 08:38 am I dunno how to say this for sure, but I disagree with that.
Aug 03, 2005 08:42 am actually the classic master limiter is a kjaerhus audio vst plug-in, from there classic line of vst plug-ins . . . sounds good and FREE . . . found it through HRC . . . so -0.2 isnt to soft . . . im still not sure how to change the out-ceiling . . . thanks for the info and link to kjaerhus audio classic line vst plug-ins
Aug 03, 2005 08:46 am oh, those plugs, yeah, OK, I don't use them, but as I recall Coco does, perhaps he can help...
TadpuiI am not a crook's headMember
Since: Mar 14, 2003
Aug 03, 2005 09:49 am That classic limiter is just a one-knob deal. The lower you set the threshold, the more squished the result. There are no other paramaters to adjust.
I have an issue with that particular limiter. It could be asignal monitoring problem in Kristal Audio too, but I never see the signal actually stay below the threshold that I set.
...uh...by the way...wth is an out-ceiling anyways?
Aug 03, 2005 09:51 am ...the max level that the audio hits, or, the max it is "limited" to reaching...
Come on Tadpui, keep up here... ;-)
As I recall, Cubase has a really nice limiter in it's VST Dynamics channelstrip plugin doesn't? It used to...
Aug 03, 2005 11:32 am i just wanna chime in and say something about 'softness' when to refering to limiting....a soft limiter isn't one that has the output ceiling set 'lower' than another....softness refers to the RATIO when limiting....for instance a hard limiter will hit the ceiling and make your signal flat after threshold and attack time are accounted for...
one advantage over analog that computers have, is the ability to 'look ahead' of the signal and literaly prepair itself for the singals threshold to be met. this means instead of waiting for a signal and beeing a bit 'surprized', the compressor can slowly put on the breaks before the signal accually crosses the threshold. so instead of gooing from normal signal to squashed instantly (or close to it) which kills the most important transients of the song, and sucks some life out, a soft limiter can go from a ratio of 6:1 and then to 10:1 then to 20:1.....
so now on those important transients you don't have as much "square wave" looking peaks...but more like "triangle waves".
make sense?
TadpuiI am not a crook's headMember
Since: Mar 14, 2003
Aug 03, 2005 12:57 pm Oh, I'd call that a threshold. I've never heard the term out-ceiling.
wyd, is "knee" the term you're talking about? How quickly the compression is applied when the signal crosses the threshold? I've heard hard knee and soft knee used in this context.
Aug 03, 2005 01:08 pm nah man, threshold is the point when the compressor starts to work.....ceiling is where the signal STOPS it will not pass the ceiling.
yeah hard knee and soft knee are basicaly the same only they're for compressors.....limiters are like a compressor on crack. and therefore it's called hard limiting and soft limiting.
Aug 03, 2005 05:55 pm i think knees are also on limiters.
The knee represents where the compressor/limiter starts to work in relation to the threshold. A soft knee starts to work just bfore the threshold, while a hard knee starts right on the threshold.
Soft knees can be used for more transperant limiting, while hard knees are basically brickwalls.
Aug 04, 2005 07:15 am tadpui . . . from what i'm seeing in cubase, the classic master limiter has there out ceiling set at -0.2 . . . im not familiar w/kristal . . . but if your able to assign fx to the master . . . that's where you'd put the classic master limiter(i think ;-} ______ dB masters . . . cubase does have a nice comp/limiter . . . it works great as a insert . . . but it dont seem to work-out when i follow the instructions given by har-bal . . . the classic master limiter works fine . . . only thing is the out-ceiling's at -0.2 instead of -0.1
Aug 04, 2005 07:21 am I did speak breifly with Earle from Har-Bal about that out ceiling level. He said he had heard of my theory as well, and that it's a matter of preference. His preference is -0.1 but that he has heard of people mastering anywhere from -0.3 to -0.1. He wrote that tutorial based on his personal preference (as expected)...that is paraphrasing his statement on the subject, but it's what I got from it.
So ultimately, I wouldn't worry about that small of a difference. You could also make it up with a maximizer, which is typically what I do myself.
SmurfMember
Since: Aug 13, 2005
Aug 13, 2005 02:29 am The Kristal Audio Engine has a strange "bug" in it's metering in that digital zero is not where it should be. There was some people on the forum talking about it a few weeks back.........
flame...bringing sexy backMember
Since: Jul 01, 2002
Aug 13, 2005 09:26 am an all new version is out soon, so i'd imagine it'll be fixed in that. i cant see them doing another bug fix for the old freebie version, personally...
JarkThink Global, Make Symp'All! ®Member
Since: Aug 10, 2005
Aug 14, 2005 02:45 pm Great thread for me! My personal technique with the Master Limiter from Kjaerhus (but I may change this when I've read all your posts carefully - all I do is self taught):
I use the VST as a Master effect, along with the Classic EQ. I do that IN the Cubase project itself. The limiter is here just in case the music causes a weird peak.
Then I export the project into a Wav file. I normalize the Wav with Cubase, just with a temporary project with only one audio track.
I understand this "cheating" approach is not sufficient for a serious mastering, but it's efficient and fast: all my tracks have the same average level, and it seems OK when I play the CDR on any audio device, or when I listen to an MP3...
