first song i've finished

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just a good guesser
Member Since: Oct 04, 2004

this is the first song i've completed. i work with my friend melissa. she wrote and sang the lyrics and i'm basically a one-man-band. just curious to what others think. oppinions and suggestions welcome. constructive critism only creates improvement.
here's the link to the song. it's called "Thurnau".

www.soundclick.com/bands/...ition_music.htm

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Appenine
Member
Since: Dec 13, 2004

Jun 27, 2005 02:06 pm

Nice contemporary chord sequence, and I've always been a sucker for the soft/loud sequence, so you've got that going.

Your friend's got a nice "quiet" female rock voice, which is a welcome change from a lot of what we hear. Thing is, you're gonna need to throw some stuff on it...either some reverb and echo, and definitely some EQ tweaks. As it is, the vocal sits a bit too far back in the mix for my tastes.

You might consider messing with the tonal quality of the arpeggiated guitars, too...they sound kinda brittle to me. Well-played, but brittle.

Some compression might also help make the sound a bit more dense.

I feel like all I did was complain...and that's not what i wanted to do! I like the song, it sounds good. Good 90's vibe, which is a compliment. I added you to my artist list on Soundclick.

just a good guesser
Member
Since: Oct 04, 2004

Jun 27, 2005 02:14 pm

that's what i'm looking for, honest oppinions and suggestions. how else am i supposed to know where i need to improve. hahaha if i wanted compliments, i'd have my mom listen to it. HAHAHA!!!
so thanks for the suggestions.

when you say "brittle", what do you mean? does it sound to thin? also the tonal qualities, to similar to each other? is that also what you're getting at?

Frisco's Most Underrated
Member
Since: Jan 28, 2003

Jun 27, 2005 02:14 pm

Interesting.
I like the song, but the mix could use a little work. Each individual instruments sounds good, but together, it seems to be a bit jumbled. In the verse part, the Accoustic sounds nice, but it seems to be covering up the vocals to me. During the chorus part, I also heard what seemed to be a high pitched harmonic that I "think" was generating from the accoustic guitar (?). Overall I like the song though.

I personally don't like that sort of filter effect on the "bridge" or little vocal soloish part, and I mean that in general, not just your use of it. Personal preference and what not.

Appenine
Member
Since: Dec 13, 2004

Jun 27, 2005 02:22 pm

It's hard to explain in words what I meant by "brittle"...best way to describe it is this:

Your acoustic guitar recorded through a microphone sounds normal.

An acoustic played through an on-board pickup with lots of "brilliance" or "presence" sounds brittle. Basically, the sound is harsh instead of organic. Does that make any sense? The sound sort of cuts into your hearing rather than massages it. I'm not sure how effectively you can fix that...except maybe some reverb or some EQ alterations, I dunno.

When coolo talks about the mix needing work, that's basically the same thing that I'm saying about the tonal qualities. Ideally, you want the individual elements of your mix to operate in sonic harmony (for lack of a better term), unless you purposefully want something to stick out. As it is, your mix has the same problem that ALL of our early mixes had, which is that the individual elements all sound like they're doing their own thing, rather than blending.

If you haven't had a chance to check out the EQ and mixing tips on this site, then you should...you might find that to be very helpful.

But like I said, the song is good...and you seem to have a good idea of where you want the different elements to be. Now it's just a matter of refining them in the mix.

just a good guesser
Member
Since: Oct 04, 2004

Jun 27, 2005 02:32 pm

yeah, the vocals do seem to sit to far back in the mix, i agree. it's tough because i let the vocalist listen to the mix and she felt that her voice stood out too much, so i dropped it back. i think it's because she's not used to hearing her voice.

just a good guesser
Member
Since: Oct 04, 2004

Jun 27, 2005 02:38 pm

for the verse guitars i used my epiphone pr-5e electric/acoustic and my fender strat. i used the on-board pickup to record the acoustic rather than micing it because well, my mic is a shure pg-48 and i didn't think it sounded very good, kind of muffled. and the strat i used the bridge pick up. on the chorus i used both guitars. i have no problem rerecording the guitar tracks. i'll try recording the acoustic through a mic instead. i'll also pull the vocals up to the front more. then i'll post it again. but please keep coming with the suggestions. it's the only way i'll get better.

Member
Since: Jul 02, 2003

Jun 27, 2005 03:01 pm

Real good song little guy! The mix sounds pretty good on my speakers, not much I'd change really. The vocals could stand to be brought out more.. but thats about it really. I too didn't care too much for the effected voice in the bridge, it just didn't really sound like it fit to me, but thats a personal observation, nothing with how it's done. I really like the vocal job melissa did, and you did an excellent job on the instruments. :)

Good Job!

Dan

just a good guesser
Member
Since: Oct 04, 2004

Jun 27, 2005 03:20 pm

thanks Dan! i'm glad you like it.

on the vocal parts, especially during the vocals, they seemed to be lacking somewhere, but i couldn't put my finger on it. i originally added a chorus effect to it, but then it sounded to manufactured, not like the voice of a human. in the current mix there is reverb added, but you can hardly hear it. i toned it back some because i felt it just cluttered up the mix. i'm thinking backing vocals may be just what it needs. so this leads to a question, do i have melissa sing her own backing vocals or should we find another vocalist to sing them? any thoughts?

I am not a crook's head
Member
Since: Mar 14, 2003

Jun 27, 2005 03:30 pm

This is good stuff. Very fresh sounding stuff, which is always welcome in my book.

I think that the guitars could use some very slight ambient reverb to push them back into the mix just a bit. Not enough to make them echoey or anything. Like the saying "turn up the reverb until you can just hear it, then turn it back down 1 notch from there".

Is that the PG48 on the vocals? I think that a condensor mic would really compliment the singer's voice. It'd add more high-frequency sensitivity and clarity to the vocals.

All in all, good job. Great job for a first mix!

just a good guesser
Member
Since: Oct 04, 2004

Jun 27, 2005 03:34 pm

yeah the PG48 is the only mic i have. i had to use a lot of noise reduction on the vocal track because when i recorded them i only had my integreted AC'97 soundcard and it created tons of white noise. now that i have an ESI Juli@ soundcard, there's zero white noise that get's recorded. i've thought about a condensor mic, but i don't have tons of loot to toss around.

I am not a crook's head
Member
Since: Mar 14, 2003

Jun 27, 2005 03:46 pm

Not to steer this into a mic discussion thread, but check out MXL, Behringer, and CAD for some budget condensor mics. $50 - $100 will at least get you into the door, and will make a huge difference for vocals. Phantom power is the only accessory you'll need to go with a condensor mic.

That was recorded on a stock sound card? sounds pretty darn good for someone fighting the limitations of an AC97 type card.

just a good guesser
Member
Since: Oct 04, 2004

Jun 27, 2005 03:50 pm

yeah at the time when i recorded the song it was all done on an AC97. i've been really considering re-recording it all on my new soundcard. yeah, i can't tell that the mic is part of the vocal probs because when she sings right infront of me compared to what comes out of the speakers, 2 completely different sounds. tonight or tomorrow night i'll hit up the local music store and see what they've got for condensor mics.

Member
Since: Jul 02, 2003

Jun 28, 2005 02:35 am

Quote:
so this leads to a question, do i have melissa sing her own backing vocals or should we find another vocalist to sing them? any thoughts?

Well if you can find another singer to do the backing vocals thats probably the best way to go simply for the variety in voice, but there's also no reason melissa couldn't do it herself. I do all my backing vocals as do alot of other people, you can still give them a different sound from the lead vocals with EQ, and different effect treatment etc.

Dan

just a good guesser
Member
Since: Oct 04, 2004

Jun 28, 2005 08:29 am

yeah, that's what i was thinking, variety. i didn't want to throw too much of melissa's voice at the listener. know what i mean?

Member
Since: Feb 17, 2005

Jul 02, 2005 10:58 am

I really liked this...you two have a cool sound...I agree with some of the hints above...mixing is an art you can never ever master...so just keep working at it...

that being said...I thought this song was well-executed, well-written and solidly mixed...overall a real fine effort...I look forward to hearing more...

Member
Since: Jul 02, 2003

Jul 02, 2005 02:41 pm

Quote:
yeah, that's what i was thinking, variety. i didn't want to throw too much of melissa's voice at the listener. know what i mean?

Sometimes that's the only route though, and it can and does work very well, I wouldn't worry about too much of melisa's voice, she has a good voice and it will work fine. :)

Dan

just a good guesser
Member
Since: Oct 04, 2004

Jul 04, 2005 05:54 pm

i agree, i really like her voice too ;). i'm just new to the mixing vocals thing.

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