Difference between a insert and a direct out?
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Posted on Jun 02, 2005 01:53 am
crux
Typo Szar
Member Since: Jul 04, 2002
I went looking at some mixing boards for my delta1010 and i found that only the large 32 channel or so mixers had direct outs. The sales clerk said "those small ones dont need'em, no one finds use for them". But im thinking.. well HRC is full of people who need small 8-12 channel mixers with preamps and direct outs. But i read somewhere here jsut like a line in a reply that you can use the "insert" as an out? What exactly is the insert for. All the mixers i saw had a XLR input, a 1/4 input adn that hole taht says insert... what is it? Is it what i need?
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mccartyeeeeeeemo.Member
Since: Oct 30, 2003
Jun 02, 2005 04:59 am hey there crux
a direct out allows you to feed out of your mixer directly from the inputs (for example, one of the preamps). this is handy for multitracking as it can allow you to run individual channels out of your desk.
an insert is meant for insterting outboard effects into a channel. they work using an "insert lead", which has a stereo jack on one end, splitting up into 2 mono jacks at the other end.
they work by the tip of the stereo jack sending to one of the mono jacks, and the ring of the stereo jack recieving form the other mono jack - and the mono jacks plug into the in and out of your effect! wow - thats a confusing description but hope it helps!
if i'm right in thinking that you are needing to use the inserts as direct outs, so that you can use your desk for multitracking, you need to use the "one click" method. basically, if you plug a jack aaall the way into an insert, you will hear two clicks, as there are two connections in them. however, if you plug it in only as far as to make one click, then it makes one connection, thus tapping out the signal, but also allows the signal to carry on undisturbed through the rest of the desk.
if you need me to help you with this further just let me know, as i will soon be using the same method with my desk that i've just ordered!
cruxTypo SzarMember
Since: Jul 04, 2002
Jun 02, 2005 05:40 am I defenitly wanna know more, that is still quite sketchy to me.. so when they say insert.. they actually mean there is a signal coming out of that?
mccartyeeeeeeemo.Member
Since: Oct 30, 2003
Jun 02, 2005 05:53 am yes, an insert is a send and return in one.
in their intended use, you yould use something like this in it
now you see how there is a tip and a ring on the stereo jack? that means two connections can be made to it. in the context of an insert, the two connections are a send and a return. the send connects to one of the mono jacks (and this is plugged into the input of an outboard effect), and the return connects to the other jack (connected to the output of the effect)
however! because the insert socket has a send, this means that you can effectively "tap" a signal out of it. you do this with a mono jack, and it is achieved by pushing the jack into the socket until the first "click" is heard. the first click means that the jack has connected to the send (but not the return!)
sorry if thats still a bit sketchy, i will add some diagrams later!
mccartyeeeeeeemo.Member
Since: Oct 30, 2003
Jun 02, 2005 06:02 am i should add to that... i said their "intended" use was for send and returns to effects - however, all the manufacturers say that using them to tap signals for multitracking is also one of their uses - it's not a bodge job!
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Jun 02, 2005 08:58 am the term 'insert' is to signify that you're 'inserting' a device in the signal chain. meaning that signal has to flow through the device, not around it. A compressor is a good example of this. You don't want any signal that could clip getting past the compressor and into the rest of the chain.
So if you imagine the chain without the device:
preamp ------------------> mixer eq --------> fader
compared to this:
preamp ------->compressor -----> mixer eq -----> fader
The compressor is 'inserted' inline with the signal chain.
Only when the TRS jack is inserted all the way, will the actual signal break take place (look at mccarty's link to see picture of insert adapter). If you only stick a mono plug in half way (first click) then you're tapping signal from after the preamp, but letting the signal (see diagram 1) flow through the rest of the board normally.
