Glitches & Clips

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Member Since: May 15, 2004

Guys;

To this day I dont really understand the term "glitches"... "Clipping" is normal...

Everytime when I analysed my wav products through Wavelab, there is always glitches in it, at least ten of those... I cant really hear the glitching sounds or anything weird in the tracks..

Ive tried to read through the wavelabs helplist but it seems it was in chinese..

So does it really matters? Will this affect anything electronically? Whatever?

TQ

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Hold 'Em Czar
Member
Since: Dec 30, 2004


May 31, 2005 01:00 pm

i'm not sure whatcha mean by glitches either....digital clipping is bad and you want to avoid it at all costs....but if you're not hearin' anything, i wouldn't stress it.

Member
Since: May 15, 2004


May 31, 2005 01:06 pm

Mmm chris,

youre suggesting that "glitches" arent to worry??

I believe most of the ppl do... sorry


Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


May 31, 2005 01:11 pm

what is a "glitch"?

Member
Since: May 15, 2004


May 31, 2005 01:24 pm

Arrgh!! lol

Example from Wavelab: "This dialog allows you to perform advanced analysis on a selection of an audio file, to find certain areas with specified properties. It can be used to find problem areas (glitches, distortion) etc, or to check general information such as the pitch of a sound...."


Hold 'Em Czar
Member
Since: Dec 30, 2004


May 31, 2005 01:27 pm

i think they are using the word glitch genericly...it could be anything.

www.TheLondonProject.ca
Member
Since: Feb 07, 2005


May 31, 2005 01:30 pm

WORD HISTORY Although glitch seems a word that people would always have found useful, it is first recorded in English in 1962 in the writing of John Glenn: “Another term we adopted to describe some of our problems was ‘glitch.’ ” Glenn then gives the technical sense of the word the astronauts had adopted: “Literally, a glitch is a spike or change in voltage in an electrical current.” It is easy to see why the astronauts, who were engaged in a highly technical endeavor, might have generalized a term from electronics to cover other technical problems. Since then glitch has passed beyond technical use and now covers a wide variety of malfunctions and mishaps.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


May 31, 2005 01:34 pm

Yeah, "glitch" is usually a generic word, but he said later "there is always glitches in it, at least ten of those" which leads me to think he means something specific...I am kind of guessing "glitch" and "clip" are the same thing here...

Member
Since: May 15, 2004


May 31, 2005 01:34 pm

There is a tab in the analysed section of Wavelab, called "The Error tab". There I can search for only two things... Clips and Gliches only... They made it like a big problem as clipping does... I dunno..

Member
Since: May 15, 2004


May 31, 2005 01:41 pm

Anyway thanks a lot guys.. Glad having a daddy, a beer and a master in this discussion... lol.. I'll continue this forum when I find more alibies..haha

Member
Since: May 15, 2004


Jun 01, 2005 09:45 am

Ok... I downloaded whosyourdaddy's "They Don't.mp3" and ran it through Wavelab global analysis.... it said there the was 4 points of clippings, and 10 points of glitches...

3 of the glitching points are exactly at:

1. 35.674s
2. 39.335s
3. 45.418s

Can any of you guys determine that?

Hold 'Em Czar
Member
Since: Dec 30, 2004


Jun 01, 2005 11:06 am

woah cool!!! i've alwaysed wondered how mastering engineers did that! i've just never dove into wavelab too deep!! thanks man!!!

ROCK! only 4 clips!!!!, not too shabby seen' how i can't listen to the whole song at once!


I WILL FIND OUT HOW TO FIX THESE GLITCHES TODAY!

Chris

Hold 'Em Czar
Member
Since: Dec 30, 2004


Jun 01, 2005 11:08 am


Member
Since: May 15, 2004


Jun 01, 2005 11:16 am

yeah daddy;

i noticed there is a slight change in the wave spectrum's regularity like there is a bump in a ride when monitoring the points. However through listening... nothing is noticeable... maybe my headphones arent that detail... i dunno whether these errors are significant enough for music production... ??


Hold 'Em Czar
Member
Since: Dec 30, 2004


Jun 01, 2005 11:20 am

honestly, i'm more concerned about the clips then the glitches....i bet mastering engineers scoff at us for it though. pffffft! it'd be nice to hand him a zero clip and zero glitch mix that isn't overcompressed!

eeeeeeemo.
Member
Since: Oct 30, 2003


Jun 01, 2005 11:24 am

I HAVE IN MY HAND THE DEFINITON OF A GLITCH

well.... it's taken from a sound on sound feature on reducing audio latency in a pc audio interface..... and he says that this definition is "often referred to as a glitch", so there may be other defintions.

so anyway, the article begins by laying out why software buffers are needed. this is the paragraph with "glitch" in it (sorry if this breaking some sort of copyright rule but... meh.)

"If the buffers are too small and the data runs out before Windows can get back to top them up (playback) or empty them (recording), you'll get a gap in the audio stream that sounds like a click or pop in the waveform and is often referred to as a 'glitch'. If these buffers are far too small, these glitches occur more often, firstly giving rise to occasional crackles and eventually to alomst continuous interruptions that sound like distortion as the audio starts to break up regularly."

so... in terms of recording, SOS says that glitches are when your buffers are set so small, that Windows can't empty them and save them to disk fast enough before the next lot of data is coming in, and so you get an audible gap in the audio.

in playback, it means that Windows can't get back fast enough to put data in the buffers, which is needed to be sent out of your interface.

hope that helps ( : it's in SOS Jan 05 if anyone wants to read up on it.

Member
Since: May 15, 2004


Jun 01, 2005 11:35 am

Hey thanks a lot mccarty!!!

Thats quite informational...! Which means we all have to increase the buffer size of the whatever mastering software we use.. I'll try that for sure... I'll post again after the results come out..

Chris: Why not do your own mastering...??? I really thought youre a mastering engineer before.. I'm learning to be one though and I really think that I can even with my simple setup..

eeeeeeemo.
Member
Since: Oct 30, 2003


Jun 01, 2005 11:42 am

remember though, setting buffer sizes is all about getting the right balance between glitches and latency!!

i'd say if you arent able to hear the glitches in your recording, then its worth that sacrifice if it means a noticeable reduction in latency. my two cents anyway :)

Hold 'Em Czar
Member
Since: Dec 30, 2004


Jun 01, 2005 11:45 am

I KNOW WHAT GLITCHES SOUND LIKE!!!

they sound like your audio is beein' pulled aapart, kinda like a record skippin' but digital 'gaps' in the audio always happens just before a dropout!

word up

now, here't the wierd part...if you're bouncing down to audio, that **** takes 5 mins or so. what the heck to buffers have to do with it?

Member
Since: May 15, 2004


Jun 01, 2005 11:46 am

McCarty...

Does this apply to the mixing process? If the answer is yes, then it might answer a lot of latency issues during mixing since I've been using buffer size of 512MB... and I was blaming the soundcard all along>

add... I think whosyourdaddy has a valid argument and I'm thinking..

eeeeeeemo.
Member
Since: Oct 30, 2003


Jun 01, 2005 11:48 am

by the mixing process, do you mean you've been playing back some recorded audio, and adjusting it with the mixer in your software?

or have you been playing it out of your computer back into a desk?

Member
Since: May 15, 2004


Jun 01, 2005 11:51 am

Oppss sorry ..forgot to inform.. I'm using SONAR3 as a mixer... tracking is done one time per instrument

eeeeeeemo.
Member
Since: Oct 30, 2003


Jun 01, 2005 11:57 am

i suppose it could - although if you're noticing latency while mixing (ie during playback) then latency while monitoring a recording would be double that! has that been happening to you too?

best advice i can give is to just experiment with a few buffer sizes. there's no solid rule for setting a size as latency will vary from computer to computer...

i use a buffer size of 128, with 4 buffers, and dont notice any audible clicks or pops while monitoring.

Member
Since: May 15, 2004


Jun 01, 2005 12:12 pm

ok... here goes a couple..

1.In computer audio, a glitch is a quick temporary noise in a file that sounds like a "snap."

2.Glitch is a kind of noise that makes your sound sample unpleasant for listening. Glitch can be heard as a #snap# in a song and is generated usually in a process of CD grabbing.


and there is a software that can remove that( www.aptrio.com/Audio/Audi...inator-490.html ) ..aint free...I dunno whether kvr has that... have to check...



eeeeeeemo.
Member
Since: Oct 30, 2003


Jun 01, 2005 12:14 pm

woop, just to follow up on my last post - in the same article, it refers to specific settings for Sonar:

- Sonar runs a Wave Profiler utility when you first start the application, which determines the optimum size for its buffers. You can run it again from Audio Options > General > Wave Profiler
-In the wave profiler, you can nearly always move the buffer size slider in the mixing latency section further to the left to reduce latency.
-You can also lower the setting for Buffers in Playback Queue

restart plaback and listen out for clicks and pops after altering these settings, as well as checking the new CPU meter reading.

there's also info on using ASIO driver in sonar if you want that too!

Hold 'Em Czar
Member
Since: Dec 30, 2004


Jun 01, 2005 12:25 pm

yeah try running 36 tracks of 24 bit audio, gooin' into 9 busses, running atleast 30 plugins and you will hear them!

mixing is the process of taking many sounds (tracks) and turning it to one (stereo) audio file.....mastering is the process of supertweaking the final stereo mix.

Member
Since: May 15, 2004


Jun 01, 2005 12:43 pm

Yeap... I've heard the snapping sound... thanks to you guys. wooo thats BAD..Have to further optimize PC.. anyway It didnt took me 30 plugins.. but just 3 izotope ozone plugins... damn expensive that one...

...bringing sexy back
Member
Since: Jul 01, 2002


Jun 01, 2005 12:43 pm

sidetracking slightly, but glitch is a genre all of its own too: www.fylkingen.se/hz/n3/cascone.html

Hold 'Em Czar
Member
Since: Dec 30, 2004


Jun 01, 2005 12:49 pm

yeah you wanna use izotope, on just one stereo MIX....processing individual tracks can be done without ozone...it is considered a Mastering program, like har-bal....very different processes (well not really) but they are seperate 'steps' in the audio production process.

Member
Since: May 15, 2004


Jun 01, 2005 12:52 pm

You wrapped it up Flame/..

but since this is a new world for most of us (actually me), a lot more need to be done.. esp during pre and post production- data collection, error recognition, threshold, prevention, and even automation need to be standardized...

We will achieve "the no clips and glitches world" some day...!

Hold 'Em Czar
Member
Since: Dec 30, 2004


Jun 01, 2005 12:59 pm

Quote:
and even automation need to be standardized


NEVERRR!!!

some of the best recordings ever were made without automation, i wouldn't call it a necessity, although i automate ALOT! hehe....and if you're suggesting automation techniques be standardized....automation is a tool, it's what you use it for that counts. everyone is different.

Member
Since: May 15, 2004


Jun 01, 2005 01:02 pm

mmm daddy, I rarely use Izotope nowadays,.. after compression, I'll straight go to har-bal, and then I maximize everything back up.. Normally everything sounds good after that with zero clips every time.. It was just the glitches that worries me..

I just wanted to hear the snapping sound so i followed yur tip and begin cramping up tracks with izotope..

but thanks anyway...you rock!


ps: automation thing was a joke, I dont think ill ever use it..heheh sorry

Hold 'Em Czar
Member
Since: Dec 30, 2004


Jun 01, 2005 02:39 pm

automation is a very useful tool...lets the mix breathe....it's helped my mixes alot (think gooin' from light and melodic, to heavy and hard)

Member
Since: May 15, 2004


Jun 01, 2005 03:07 pm

I'll be your young apperentice on that.. TQ chris

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