Gate/Band Pass Filter
Home > Home Recording Forum > Recording Techniques > Gate/Band Pass Filter
Posted on Jan 27, 2005 01:04 am
wontdieinPA
Member Since: Apr 27, 2002
welp...heres the problem all you sound doctors out there...a common one im sure, and ive been checking all around this forum for answers and there were some...but i need a more, side-by-side comparison approach to the answer...you know...pros and cons...
im recording drums (you're getting tense already, i can tell) and each instrument when soloed sounds fantastic...then when i mix them all together...not muddy...just, very blurred together...the snare when soloed sounds very distinct...same with the kick..and so and so on...
i believe this to be in part of the fact that every mic is picking everything else up and different times...etc...etc...so i tried using a gate on the kick...and that works...cause it usually does...then i gate the snare...and this does not work AT ALL! either it sounds like its being cut off way too soon...or too much of the hi-hat comes through...theres never a happy medium and ive been placing this SM-57 all over trying to point away from the hats and towards the crotch and whatnot...and still nothing works...
so i think maybe ive stumbled upon another solution called Band Pass Filtering, but im not sure...the things ive read have made it seem like i can cut out certain frequencies on the overhead tracks that the snare and the kick and toms might be playing into...and by doing this...in turn making the drums have more punch by not having 7-8 milliseconds of delay between the time the close mics pick it up and the time the overheads pick the same hits up...
am i going in the right direction at all? can i be saved??
also...is there a huge difference in the order of which you chain a compressor and gate?? it seems to make a difference...but its not discernable to me as to which sounds the best...
[ Back to Top ]
dansaltdoganother day another ray of hopeMember
Since: Oct 14, 2004
Jan 27, 2005 05:08 am That's a lot of stuff to cover.
I'll do some of the points I can think of, somebody else will probably think of the things I have missed.
Could be a phasing problem with the mics, if the drums sound good solo'd but lacking in the mix. It's probably the overheads. Try listening to the drum track that sounds good solo'd then slide the overheads into the mix slowly, if that drum is losing some of it's punch or tonal qualities then it's probably a phasing problem.
If it is just that the other mics are changing the sound of the snare when they are put in the mix, try to eq out, from the snare channel, the frequencies prominent in the other channels e.g. overheads need to have the higher frequencies for the cymbals, so knock those off the snare and let the overheads compensate for those frequencies. This can also give you really good control of the snare.
This is personal thing, but for me it is the delay picked up by the overheads which brings the drums to life, but not many think like me with regards to this.
Gating the snare will not do much if the other mics are picking everything up. However, if eq'ed differently to the other channels then it can work well, don't worry too much about a bit of hi hat spill, this I find gets covered up in the overall drum mix (you could always side chain the gate to get rid of the hi hat though). or try playing around with the release times of the gate so as not to lose the tail end of the snare but keep the hi hat out
Where to put the gate in the chain? Differing opinions on this. If it goes before compression you don't have to keep adjusting it as you adjust the compression. If it goes after the compressor then it can be used as an effect when added to compression, but every time you have to tweak the compression you have to tweak the gate
Jan 27, 2005 12:31 pm wait one second...you just hit on something that ive been reading about this morning now....side chain filtering to get the hi-hat out...teach me! errr....tell me where i can be taught...thats what i need to learn how to do!
vdalehubbardLost for words with all to say.Contributor
Since: Sep 12, 2003
Jan 27, 2005 12:40 pm This is what I do and I normally don't have to use a filter.
It's all in the EQing. Reading this and understand it was the best thing that I have done.
www.homerecordingconnecti...tory&id=154
With the overheads, eq the high end to get that crisp cymbal sound and cut off all low end. I record my drums in a homemade cage, I'm not sure this applies to peeps doing it in a normal room. But with the correct EQing, I don't have much problems with over bleeding. With my overheads with good placement and EQing correcly actually pick up my high hat with no problem. So, I use 2 overheads for all 4 cymbals and hi-hat, cool eh? EQ the kick petal with just a peak sticking out in the highs to create that smacking sound, thus leaving the rest of the highs for cymbals/hi-hate and some snare.
I believe if you EQ things in the correct placement in the Audio Spectrum, it will solve most of your problems.
Jan 27, 2005 12:53 pm Good topic man! i'm gettin' ready to do some drum mixing myself....i was planing on gating the toms and maybe, maybe the kick...i donno yet as for the delay on the overheads you can try sliding the tracks over a bit to compensate. i'd subgroup all your drums onto one stereo channel, and effect them as a whole....ya gotta realize that the drum kit is one of the hardest instrument(s) to record. so you're always gonna have issues.
Jan 28, 2005 12:55 am well i record 3 cymbals an the hi-hat with just 2 overheads as well...but the problem isnt getting enough hi-hat in the mix...its getting too much on the snare drum track...cause id really not to have so much leakage on the snare track from the hi-hat...and sometimes gating works along with a little compression, EQ and reverb, you cant even tell its been gated...but lately ive not been able to real make the adjustments on the snare, cause then the hi-hat on that track that is picked up from the leakage gets EQ'd, compressed and reverbed as well...and it sounds horrible...very unnatural.
but heres the question:
how can i just cut frequency ranges where the hi-hat is sitting on the snare track without affecting the snap and sharpness of the snare itself...ive been reading about Side-Chain gating...something about specifically targeting frequencies to gate on a track and i dont get it...
so...anyone have the darndest clue about how use side chain gating in Cubase SX? cause ive been searching high and low...and nothing!
dansaltdoganother day another ray of hopeMember
Since: Oct 14, 2004
Jan 31, 2005 05:20 am
I'm not sure how this works in cubase but you should be able to send and return from the side chain of the gate. If so, send to a graphic EQ and then roll off the high frequencies where the hi-hat would sit, effectively making a band pass filter.
The idea being that the gate will only open when it hears the freqencies that have not been rolled off using the graphic. That the snare has some of the high frequencies of the hi-hat does not matter, as it contains also the low end frequencies that the hi-hat does not and because these have not been cut the gate will open upon hearing them.
However... this is no panacea.
The problem that you now have is that the hi-hat will be heard every time the gate is opened, (when the snare is played) making the amplitude and sound of the hi-hat uneven as it played through the song.
Also the the fact that the gate is no longer opening when hearing high frequencies may mean that you are smashing the front of the wave, as that is where the crack of the snare is. If you have look ahead on the gate this can overcome this problem, but then the snare is delayed along the time line by the time set for "look ahead".
Oh my... so many problems.
The best fix I have found is to use the overheads to control the top end of the hi-hat and snare and then use the snare mic to manage the bottom end of the signal by cutting some of the higher frequencies. I will get a good sound on the snare channel, put in the overheads then roll off from the snare all that high horrible stuff that the "over"heads are "over"compensating for.
Hope this helps
