Jan 24, 2005 11:01 pm hmmmm. what kind of a marshall was it?
No More Amps!
Posted on Jan 24, 2005 09:42 pm
ciinx
Member Since: May 15, 2004
Haha you were right Noize. I've sold my 10 year old guitar amps (Peavey+Marshall) last week.. I really think that I wont be needing them for home recordings anymore. Better spend the cash for other gears.
Love the PODxt very much!
By the way, thanks for everybody who has helped. I compared my old recordings before HRC and after 8 months a member last night and amazed how different everything sounded.
See you ppl around!
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Jan 24, 2005 11:01 pm hmmmm. what kind of a marshall was it?
Jan 25, 2005 02:40 am *gasp! Blasphemy! But I guess there are different strokes for different folks.
I would never part with my precious amps....(pats each amp on head)
Jan 25, 2005 07:10 am I have gone full circle from getting mad into the VAMP (which I do love by the way) Amplitube and generally bypassing the amp...
Then, I cranked the auld Marshall with the Les Paul and man, it still kicks ***. I dont think I could ever sell it unless I really, really had to. However, if that happens, I always have useless organs I dont need :-D !!!
Still, glad ye hit the tones buddy...its good when ye get there.
All the best
Coco.
Jan 25, 2005 08:30 am I got rid of my last amp (my Ampeg B3 bass amp) a few months ago and moved to a Bass Vamp. I then had to buy a small bass amp for my Hart/Alesis elctronic drum kit...but that hardly counts.
The only time I don't record direct is when one of my friends lays down guitar tracks and wants to use their amp...otherwise, for myself, my bass and guitar parts, it ALL direct ALL the time. I personally am very happy with the sound I get from it.
Jan 26, 2005 09:30 pm It was a valvestate 20R, a little prac amp but enough power for the SM57. I really didnt mind selling it then ; but i gave colonel sanders blasphemious thought a workout haha.
But the 100 bucks i made from it will go to the upgrades of the PODxt packages. A wise move I guess. More and more of Amp Simulations...in the end, the end product (the sound) is what really counts. dB and coco must've agreed.
cheers
Jan 27, 2005 09:41 am I've got a Boss GT-6 that I use live into the PA. Works great. It also has digital out to go into my 1010lt, so all seems well.
Not that I'd sell my 67 super though =)
Jan 27, 2005 10:32 am If I was still performing like I used to, I'd still have an amp, I can't see not having a stage amp in a live situation (unless in very small venues). However, if it can work in the studio, I guess it could work live, I just like having that big sound on stage...
In the studio it's a different matter. The direct sound is a good tone, plus the conveience of not having to crankup an amplifier when the wife and kids are home, and not having to worry about the kid flushing a toilet or the furnace kicking in during a take and bleeding in to the mic is quite awesome too...it's a combination of tone and convenience.
Jan 27, 2005 10:55 am I'm kinda back and forth about this one. We use 2 of the bose personal PA posts +subwoofers. It's got a pretty impressive sound, but I still miss the punch coming from an amp. I don't use the super live, due to space / weight / convenience, but I do miss it. Also, being the second of two guitarists, I don't want to start any volume wars. With the pa doing the amplification, it's a better and more covering sound, which means less volume.
Being a bassist, you're left alone with your volume / wall-o-sound. Also, I'd not think too many PAs can handle the type of sound coming out of a bass rig.
Jan 27, 2005 11:01 am If your PA has hipacks and sub using signals that are crossed over, a decent PA system can do a pretty good job of it...at least the old PA I used to have did.
The last band I was in I designed and configed the PA system for, we had about 1200 watts, two horn/12" highpacks and two 18" subs, one stack of each on each side of the stage. I crossed over the signal at about 150-175 (I forget exactly) had about 800 watts going to the subs and 400 watts going to the hipacks and the PA sounded VERY nice and we could play a decent sized room with it. I had a B3 bass amp so I used it for stage sound and that was about it, the PA did quite a bit of it as well. It handled it quite well.
Jan 27, 2005 11:09 am Oh man. I'm all for software base equipment (I use my softsynths everyday) but I could NOT part without my amp. For live use OR recording. There is just something about my tube amp with REAL spring reverb. Cranking the spring reverb while playing/recording chicken scrath guitar parts for reggae/rocksteady music totally defines the guitar style for that genere. Until software can get that perfect and then some, I'm sticking with my amp. :)
Jan 27, 2005 12:26 pm Yeah, you'll never see me part with my amp unless I have to move into an apartment or duplex or something. I love the tone too much. I love cranking my amp when I come home for lunch, I love it when the floor rattles. I love feedback (try to get THAT with a modeler hehe). Modeling definitely has its place and cheers to those who use it successfully.
Anyone wanting to give away their amps can contact me. I will take good care of them and feed and walk them every day. :-D
Jan 27, 2005 12:41 pm I agree, the tone and sound and feel out of my 67 super is not easily replicated. I'll not be getting rid of it anytime soon. But, the digital age has made it a lot easier to get things pretty close.
Jan 28, 2005 05:59 am Yea, word up Albert, pjk and tadpui! Stick up for that analogoue reverb, dripping with that "real" tube sound. *drools You will never emulate that real amp sound and atmosphere with a direct in plug. Well not when im still alive anyway.
Note to self: Sabbotage line 6 headquarters.
Jan 28, 2005 06:04 am Do it and your *** is grass kid :-)
I upgraded to POD XT Pro's for guitar and bass yesterday, dude, that POD XT is amazing. With "Line 6 Edit", which is a computer-based interface to control the POD's features, it has an absolutely incredible sound. Pick and amp head, pick a cabinet, pick a mic and move it to and fro in front of the speaker, add effects, the reverb is absolutely stellar. I'm blown away.
I have always hated spring reverb myself...
If you wanna sabatage Line 6 headquarters, I'll be the snipper on top the building :-)
Anyone wanna buy an original POD w/floorboard or a lightly used Behringer Bass Vamp Pro?
Jan 28, 2005 06:15 am You'll never convince me dB! Shoot me first, then we can talk :P
(Eye starts twitching at thought of pod......grrrrrrrrrr)
Jan 28, 2005 06:28 am Sounds like the statement of someone with a very closed mind. Not a good thing to have in this industry. Quite possibly the single biggest roadblock there is.
A few years back everybody was saying "record on a computer, no way", before that it was people saying MIDI was the devil, before that people thought multitrack recording was fake and bad "ya gotta do it live"...see the pattern? Today, amp modeling the the technology that is being victimized by those same nay-sayers and people that are scared of something new. It's the exact same thing.
Just like MIDI and computer based recording, there are high-quality modeling options and low-quality modeling options, and those nay-sayers typically judge the whole thing by the worst of them...kinda like the technological version of racism...judging the whole by the few worst.
I'm not gonna even try and convince you, it's your loss, not mine. I will share this with you as a friendly bit of advice...not being willing to try new things with an open mind can, and likely will, be the downfall of any career in any area of technology...including music.
Jan 28, 2005 06:34 am Yea, Yea, good point dB, I guess no matter how much I try to hide from it it is part of the future :(.
It just seems a tad "wrong", just sitting infront of a small screen, dialling up already formulated "perfect" sounds, while im here twidling with my knobs for hours.
I've used one before and it just seemed to be something missing, but I guess thats down to personal taste.
Jan 28, 2005 06:43 am doesn't it then seem a tad "wrong" to sit and copy, paste, edit and tweak audio via your PC? Or a tad wrong to play a synth to record a bagpipe? It's no different from how other people feel about stuff we do every day.
And, yeah, lots of things are missing, the worry of somebody slamming a door that leaks in to your recording, pissed off neighbors, the expense and hassle of several amplifiers, cabinets and microphones always being available...I dunno about you, but those are things I don't miss...
Oh, and for the record, modeling isn't a "turn it on and you have the perfect sound", there is plenty of knob twiddling to be done there too...the only thing modeling gives you is a direct recording and many different heads, cabs and mics to start from...
Jan 28, 2005 06:53 am Different strokes for different folks....
I'll agree to disagree on this one dB :).
Cheers
C_S
Jan 28, 2005 07:05 am You are perfectly entitled to be wrong. :-)
Seriously tho, there is not a common logic to your thinking, how is it OK for you to record and edit into a PC when somebody sits there for hours twiddling with tape to get it right? Isn't that wrong? Yet it is "wrong" to digitally reproduce amp and cab sounds...
See where your disconnect is? Cuz simulation is hitting close to your personal passion. You find great fun and art and passion in twiddling those knobs to get the right sound, the right amp for the right job, somebody made it easier and you feel your personal art has been somehow tainted. The same way a die hard, passionate analog engineer feels when his art was tainted by a PC. Or the way an orchestra composer feels undermined when I can pull up an entire string section with patch 27 of my sound module.
Having a line of right and wrong is perfectly fine, but if the line isn't straight then it's silly...
Jan 28, 2005 07:11 am Seriously, yes, everyone is perfectly entitled to their opinions. I am just trying to get you to look at it with a wider angle lens. It sounds like you want to go to school for engineering. Engineers need a wide-angle lens...
Jan 28, 2005 07:16 am What is right is MY opinion ! Bwwwwwwwhahahahaha (a wee joke for yis).
Amps - I have a Marshall and I'll never get rid of it. If I get space/when I throw the kids out in many years, I WILL get a FULL stack. Just BECAUSE I CAN! I will get a stack, I will, I will, I will. I'll get Police Tape saying "Police Line - Do Not Cross" and it will be a JCM800 or JCM900 head.
Now, I WILL keep my VAMP and I MIGHT get a POD one day tho I need a bit of convincing to upgrade based on teh real, audible difference.
EVERYTHING is relative man...and I say modellers kick ***. I used to DREAM (in my long past nieve days) of being able to plug my guitar into a box and have lots of amps and pedals applied when I first saw a primmitive fx box with more than one fx (multi-effects). This was 15 years ago when I was a kid.
Now, I CAN!!! Hows that for progress. That kicks some serious, serious ***. Ye know, to ye all - the way to think of it - NO one (amp or modeller) is WORSE/BETTER - tones are importatn aye - but each to their own. I say, HAVE BOTH MAN!! HAVE IT LOUD!!!
It matters NOT where the sound is amplified and HOW .. as long as it SOUNDS Good....PERIOD!
Now, think of when Dylan inflicted "sacrliege" on the sacred art of guitar by ** SHOCK - HORROR ** amplifing it!! Geez...its all movin with the times man.
If, in a few years, I can buy a matchbox that gives me EVERY guitar tone and amp tone under the sun and sounds real, with a 2" speaker that gives me 500W - I'll buy it...and I'll also piss off the neighbours. I'll still keep my amp cause I love it, but, if something better comes along, I'll have it LARGE!!! CMON!!!
So...remember - ye can have both AND be happy. Tadpui, I'll join ye walking those amps...mines a stack and a nice big old Twin Reverb! hehehe.
Adios and have a good weekend guys
Coco.
Jan 28, 2005 08:17 am Quote:
It matters NOT where the sound is amplified and HOW .. as long as it SOUNDS Good....PERIOD!
Exactly.
Dude, I have a Bass Vamp, as you know, I have played with the Vamp for guitars, I just got my POD's last night, spent a couple hours updating their firmware and flash memory, playing with the presets, messing with the editing software and all that (they plug into the PC via USB) and after just a couple hours and 3 Samuel Adams I can safely say, while the Vamps do an admirable job for a good price, I won't knock 'em, but, they are not even in the same league as the POD XT's regarding straight up sound quality...the Vamp has good sounds, I will never take that away from them, but on the dirt trail that is amp modellers, the Vamp can't even see the POD's dust...
My Bass Vamp Pro is going on eBay over the weekend.
I am absolutely speechless regarding my experiences last night with the POD's...and you guys all know it's pretty tough to leave me with nothing to say...
Feb 03, 2005 10:07 pm CS, I honestly dont miss my big amps. At least in here, as dB said I might still opt for a big rig if playing live.
As for the knob twiddling thing, I can sit for hours conjuring new sounds via the Line 6 edit feature on my PC. It is really no differant then tweaking a real amp to be honest.
I was a very die hard analog person, and I do mean very die hard! However that said, once I dove head first into the digital domain with the only thought being I can make this work and sound like analog.
That was almost 10 years ago now. I wont say I dont miss my analog gear because I do. But I have even sold my precious Roland Juno 106 because the software synths have gotten that good. And the programing is so much deeper. I can still sit here for hours on end fiddling about looking for that sound that is the holy grail I search for each time I fire up one of those software monsters.
As for my POD XT fully loaded. I wouldnt trade it for a stack of Soldano's. WEll maybe Soldano's but not for a stack of lesser quality amps.
Feb 03, 2005 11:38 pm I use my v-amp 2 live and the guy doing our sound last gig said it was one of the best amp sounds he's ever heard. :)
Feb 04, 2005 03:20 pm you cant beat that analog sound, but digital modelling is awesome and only going to get better!!! i want the boss gt-8!! being able to change to 2 different sounds based on your pick attack!! how kewl is that!!!
Feb 04, 2005 09:35 pm It seems to me that with amp modeling, at least in the past, is that it's much easier to get a great sound, but you're kind of limited on how good it will get and the variations you can achieve. I like the where Line 6 is headed with the POD XT because it seems to be changing all of that. There really are no limits on what you could potentially do with that thing.
I'm really not sure how I feel about amp modeling, but I do hope that there will always be a place for miking up a guitar cab. Right now I often record a Line 6 amp with a cab microphone, even though it's modeled in the first place. It's nice to think that the sound traveled an inch or two through the air before it reached the recording medium. It just seems like it gives you a more dynamic sound to work with.
Anyway, I think I'm going to start saving my pennies to buy a POD XT, although I hate the idea of having drums and vocals be the only miked instruments in a rock recording... :( I both love and hate the concept of amp modeling.
In regards to what dB was saying,
I don't really see why recording and editing on a computer could be considered "wrong," it's just a different way of working, which bothered many people at first.
As far as the bagpipes go, using a synth does seem wrong to me. However, if you can't get a bagpiper over and it's just a home studio, I think using a synth would be fine ;)
Feb 05, 2005 12:19 am This is an interesting thread. I am keeping my amps but I still have an eye on that new pod live pedal board set up. I dont think of it as a replacement but it would be a nice tool to add to the collection! The best of both worlds. I know, you can say it..... I'm a pack rat!
Feb 05, 2005 01:50 am I just wanted to add my two cents.
I've been using the PODxt for a while now and I absolutly love it, I wasn't sure about going the modeler route but I'm glad I did.
And I spend just as much time twiddling knobs as I ever did, probably more in fact because there are so many options available to me now.
Feb 05, 2005 01:59 am what professional recordings out there have used modelling? i have never really researched this or found any pure modelling recordings, someone said metallica used modelling on st. anger.?? modelling was used in the studio. i know adrian belew uses alot of line six stuff, but i dont think he records with it. ne1?!?
Feb 05, 2005 04:23 am That's an interesting point xtc. If they don't use modelling, then why don't they? Every studio I have ever used has always miked up the cab, and we all know how hit and miss that can be, trying to get "that great guitar sound". If there is a pod thing which will get "that" sound, then why aren't all studios using them?
Feb 05, 2005 08:01 am On one hand, yeah, that's a good point...
On the other hand, I don't really care if "the pros" use modelling or not, I don't base my techniques on, or judge them against, what any pros do. I have noticed, however at some concerts I go to, PODs in people racks for live use.
If everybody did everything that the reigning authorities do, there wouldnever be any innovation. I use modelling almost exclusively and I love the sound, and I really don't give a crap if James Hetfield likes it or not...
Feb 05, 2005 09:01 am dB, that was a genuine question, why do you think they don't use them?
I have never used one, so I cannot comment on their benefits. But they do seem to have huge benefits, so there must be another reason why they are not being used, even if it is only that engineers are stubborn.
Feb 05, 2005 01:17 pm Joe Satriani's "Engines of creation" was recorded direct to disk without the use of amplifiers.
Feb 05, 2005 01:31 pm I've been asking around and most of the recording studios fear that the recording business will be going down soon as their last year's revenue was not as good as the years before (due to the modelling "disease").
I guess those stubborn studios which has not used any of the modellers already spent hundreds of thousand dollars for their setup, then come a company like Line 6 releasing PODs for guitar and bass costing just a small fraction of their cost for the "almost similar" result. Who wouldnt be pissed?
Here in my place most of the recording studios do have POD as an alternative for the quick "great sounding guitar" answer.
Ahh.. they can still make money through vocal and drum recordings.... Maybe a few voiceovers for college projects..
Now I'll ask... why buy Lexicon PCM91 if you can get Lexicon Pantheon plugin for free if you use Sonar. Why buy Apogee UV22HR hardware if you can get the same results just by using its free plugin in the Wavelab?
Well I guess they have to accept this digital age most unlikely phenomenon..
Feb 05, 2005 02:09 pm I think has alot to with the fact that most bands already have "their sound" from their live playing so when they go into the studio they want to use what they are comfortable with and know. I think there are probably quite a few who use modelers live with their amps and don't want or need to spend the time getting similar sounds direct.
If I were to go into a studio I would use what I was comfortable with and already had my sound worked out with which would be direct with my modeler of choice. I don't think the studio is going to turn down my money because I want to use a modeler. :)
Another is just the fact it has been and is the accepted method for studio work, so unless an artist requests differently thats what they'll do. From what I've read alot of artists are beginning to use modelers, most often in combination with mic'ing an amp, so eventually the amp in a studio situation will probably be the exception rather than the norm. Time marches on. :)
Dan
Feb 05, 2005 02:13 pm my point wasnt trying to say if modelling is so great how come its not used professionally.i like modelling and was wondering who does use it in the studio, then i thought why would studios use it, if they can crank the amps to 11 anytime they want, unless theres a certain amp sound they dont have. i read an article on johnny hiland, where he said he tracked his entire self titled album (on steve vai's, favored nations)with a j-station, but then steve vai came back and said no way, we want you pushing some air and made him re-track it all.
Feb 05, 2005 02:28 pm That's why the PODxt has the A.I.R. Cabinet virtual speaker-cabinet-air-microphone thing.
Feb 05, 2005 02:44 pm It's probably used more than you know xtc, but not start to finish. Modeling is still relativly new technology and it takes along time to displace existing methods.
Dan
Feb 05, 2005 03:24 pm I have heard of running the modeler through a miked amp and recording it direct, simultaneously. I think you might need the POD Pro to do that, however, since you would need one signal with the AIR on and one without it(?) I believe that they are at least used quite often in conjunction with a miked amp.
Feb 05, 2005 04:47 pm xtc, the POD XT will react like a live amp as well to pick attack and how hard you play. It has since version 2.0 I believe. They have worked long and hard to emulate how a tube reacts when it gets hotter and as your playing goes from soft to loud.
As forthe Pros using emulation live or in the studio. I beleive Lenny Kravitz was the first to record an entire album with now guitar amps at all, he used the first generation of Amp Farm. And he is a die-hard vinatge/analog guy. And yes, Satriani, Vai, and many others use modelers both live an in the studio. Its not just a fad anymore, it allows some very creative sounds and a much smaller package to tour with.
Porp, I record my POD XT amped as well. Now with the POD XT I can run one live cirquit miced and then record the AIR cirquit via USB/ASIO interface right out of the POD.
And as far as the pushing some air thing goes. That is what Line 6 does better then anyone else, far better then the J-Station. The AIR modeleing part of the POD is what gives it that miced cabinet feeling. But it must be used properly, to much and it sounds bad, too little and it sound steril. So it does take some practice to get it right.
Feb 07, 2005 03:57 pm Congrats xtc, hope you enjoy yours as much as I and others are enjoying our's.
Feb 08, 2005 02:25 pm i got all of the model packs :) i love this thing, the amp models are tight!
Feb 09, 2005 04:12 pm Alright, I took the plunge and got a bass VAmp and was messing around with it. Tis a cool new toy to mess with bass sounds and what not. :) Not too bad for practicing where you have to be quiet and what not also.
Feb 09, 2005 11:45 pm I'd like to chime in on this one once more. The amp modelers sound like a marshall stack the same way a keyboard player sounds like a violin. Is it a perfect reproduction? No but it will fool the average listener. Now I'm not saying this is a bad thing. Like I said in my post above, they are great tools to have and use but I wont be selling the half stack any time soon. The reason Steve Vai would have asked him to rerecord the album with live amps is that Steve is a seasoned guitar vet and you wont be fooling him. I think its strange that he would have a problem with it seeing as how he comes up with some very stange sounds that I would hardly call classic guitar tones! I dont have a problem with amp modelers and I'm sure I'll be adding that Line 6 Live pedal to the collection soon. I just think that they have a few more years to go before its a 100% true reproduction. They are dangerously close though!
Feb 10, 2005 08:20 am i think the reason steve vai wanted johnny hiland to use real amps, is because of his style, johnny is mainly a chicken pickin tele man but he does some other styles as well, and nothing sounds like a fender amp for that style :) i would highly recommend buying his album.
Feb 10, 2005 01:20 pm After reading these posts I downloaded the demo version of Native Instrument's Guitar Rig. I liked it, but I didn't love it. I have to admit, it sounds great and feels good too. The effects in there are really, really good. I've tried many times in the past few weeks to replacate my tube amp with spring reverb for reggae-type tracks I'm working on but it just doesn't cut it. Oh well... different strokes for different folks, ya know? On the other hand, I have found it VERY useful for writing purposes where I'm not being too anal on the sound/tone. It's very quick AND I can play after my girlfriend goes to bed (and I don't get in trouble... hehe). As well as I have been using the built in Phaser, Spring Reverb (sounds HOT and realisitc on snare hits) in my scatch mixes. One more thing, I found it's very useful as a plug-in when I use NI's B4... I can play it through a different amp and position the mic where I want it and add some air. THAT alone has been my favorite feature. It gave B4 more life and realisim than it already had. I'd say the program is about 85% there.... when it gets to 100%, I'll sell my amp ;) I'm not all the way convinced yet, but I've become a believer. My analong blood is curdeling! ;)
Feb 11, 2005 06:24 pm I don't think the violin synthesizer vs. guitar amp modeler is a fair comparison. The modeler is only a processor for the sound of the guitar-- you're still playing the same instrument. Instead of using solid state or tube electronics, it uses software. It's just a different way of altering the tone that is coming from your instrument.
I would say it can fool alot more than the "average listener."
I just ordered a POD XT :)
Feb 12, 2005 03:39 am Yeah after I reread that post I wasnt too happy with the violin/synth comparison either. Line 6 has some wonderful products. I'll be ordering some of their gear here soon. If anyone is going to get it right it will be them. I think they are on they right track with the POD XT live. Thats the best sounding one I have heard yet.
Feb 14, 2005 09:41 pm Ok would anyone be upset with me if I ate my words here? I went out tonight after work and bought the POD XT Live as I said I was going to do. I needed a new effects board and the Line 6 was the one I liked the best. After spending just a few hours with this thing I need to ammend my above posted views. I am hooked. I guess when I played through this thing before I was listening with biased ears. I guess I wasnt ready to accept the fact that the POD could be that good. While I still have no intention of getting rid of my amps, this is one smooth tool to add to the toolbox!
Feb 15, 2005 10:00 am man i love my pod xt, its a geat little device and plus its upgradeable, i hear theres a new firmware coming out soon.
ive been reading the line6 forum and have downloaded lots of super tweaked presets from this philbert guy, great stuff!
Feb 15, 2005 12:24 pm If you're playing live;
Don't overlook taking the amp out of the equation (if one is still being used). In plugging into the PA, you get better control, stereo is much better, and the full frequency spectrum can be reproduced, instead of the 5k ceiling like in most guitar speakers. There's quite a few GT-6 users that are using powered monitors for their amplification, due to their much more articulate and detailed sound.
I only wish the GT-6 had a decent computer interface as most of the other fx processors do.
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