Crashes, Sound cards, and MIDI

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Member Since: Jan 09, 2005

Hi all (and specifically, db -- I think you're on every forum I visit, so I came to yours!),

I'm having an issue with some engraving/composition software: MakeMusic's PrintMusic 2004 (www.finalemusic.com/printmusic/ ). In talking with their tech support, they're telling me my program is crashing because my sound card "isn't known for handling MIDI well". First of all, I'm frustrated that I need to make a hardware change here at all. The current card, Turtle Beach Santa Cruz, has worked well for me so far.

Anyway, they're telling me to go to something that handles MIDI better, and suggest Creative Labs SoundBlaster Live. That's a pretty inexpensive card, from what I've seen, and I'm wondering how good it is for non-MIDI audio (don't want to lose my gaming and movie sounds).

So, first of all, how am I supposed to find out which cards handle MIDI well? I've never seen that in any reviews anywhere.
Second, would the LIVE card be good, or would Audigy LS be better (gotta keep this thing as cheap as possible)?
Third, is there an even better, non-Creative Labs answer that I'm ignoring?
Finally, does that even sound right, that "poor MIDI handling" would be able to crash my program, but not affect other audio programs?

Related information: I have no inputs to or outputs from instruments. All my work is done within this program via mouse and (computer) keyboard, and all MIDI playback is through the sound card.

Thanks for the help!

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Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Jan 09, 2005 11:23 pm

Well I am going out on a limb here and say they are full of crap. If you are not using the mid i/o ports then it doesnt have any effect on the performance of the PC.

That said, I ran a TurtleBeach card for a while without any trouble. Indeed their onboard synth chip was not quite as good as Creatives but it was not a slack Gm engine by any means. And all the functions and audio are handled on the card as well so it is doubtfull that is what is causing the crash. I am guessing it is their software that doesnt comunicate well with certain midi drivers. I am not sure if you can still get drivers for the card at all but I would maybe do a google search and see if there are any current or maybe more recant drivers then the ones you have installed.

Otherwise, if it just the synth engine you need I would just opt for the SB live version as it is running the same synth engine as the audigy.

Member
Since: Jan 09, 2005


Jan 10, 2005 12:42 am

Okay, that's pretty much what I thought.

But, given that I have the latest drivers, it still means I have to go get a new card, right?

RE: SBLive. The thing is, it's not just the synth engine I need. I don't want to lose quality in the CDs, MP3s, games, etc. Does Live do a good job there, or do I get what I pay for?

A small pie will soon be eaten
Member
Since: Aug 26, 2004


Jan 10, 2005 05:20 am

You can run two cards concurrently!

But as noize said if it's only for the Synth then an audigy is fine and will only increase the quality of DVD's and such.


Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Jan 10, 2005 06:02 am

If you are doing any serious audio work, both the Live and Santa Cruz are pretty substandard. I also agree the tech support is full of crap. MIDI is the easiest thing for any sound card to handle. Other than that, both the Live and the Santa Cruz are probably simple, 16-but cards, no great shakes in the audio dept. either way. The Audigy, however, would be better than either, current Audigy card, I believe are 24-bit and have a better synth wavetable and decent MIDI support.

Member
Since: Jan 09, 2005


Jan 10, 2005 10:17 am

"You can run two cards concurrently!"

Get out... really? I didn't know that. Cool.

db... can't say I'm doing any serious audio work. Just don't want the audio for games, and movies, and listening to get worse. I don't do any mixing or anything. The most serious thing I'd do is burn/rip a CD (if my burner would start working again), and I don't think that applies, or creating MIDI files with this PrintMusic program.

btw, db, I had a little trouble logging in just now. It told me twice it couldn't find my email address before it took it (and I didn't even retype it). Don't know why that would be, but thought I'd let you know.

Member
Since: May 15, 2004


Jan 11, 2005 04:59 am

Thank god this topic is still new...

I'm having problems when recording MIDI last night, and the night b4 that, and the night b4 that...... (Sorry caddickj, I'm cutting through here). hehe..

Well actually I'm running M-Audio Omnistudio USB together with SBLive (for the generic MIDI sounds only). In SONAR3, the MIDI track wont be heard as the M-Audio is the master sound driver.

Unless I consider rewiring, by connecting the Line Out of the SBLive into either one of the Line Ins at the M-Audio. Then, soloing the MIDI track and record it onto a new audio track (*.wav file).

This method is not the way to go as the sound quality is too bad, digital noises at the background, latency problem that I thought I would never have to use delay again in my boring home recording life, etc. BUT, I really need all those awesome sounds from the MIDI patches.

So, I have a few options,

1. Get myself a MIDI Sound Module box.
(I asked around a lot today, most of them dont sell this anymore. Reason: Most people can get MIDI from the soundcards.)

2. Buy a Keyboard.
(I cant afford getting another expensive unit in my studio this soon, Moreover, I dont know how to play keyboards)

3. Only use VST plugins for synth sounds.
(mmmm, too electronic.. I just need the old fashion orchestra sounds)

4. Or is it just a cable issue?
(I'm just using a cheap cable when connecting the 1/8" SBLive into the 1/4" M-Audio. But, why everything sounds okay when I use the same cable from SBLive into a MiniDisc?)

Summoning all the MIDI Masters of the Universe for HELP!!!!

TQ (in advance)
ciinx

A small pie will soon be eaten
Member
Since: Aug 26, 2004


Jan 11, 2005 10:44 am

"Only use VST plugins for synth sounds."

For orchestral sounds i'd run with this!

www.musiciansfriend.com/s...l/base_id/58501

Forget the Synth on the SB live altohether!

"You can run two cards concurrently!"

I run an Audigy and a Delta at once with no dramas!






A small pie will soon be eaten
Member
Since: Aug 26, 2004


Jan 11, 2005 10:47 am

I've thrown you a bum stear! Sorry!

try this

www.musiciansfriend.com/s...tp?q=orchestral

Although i love Super Quartet :)

Member
Since: May 15, 2004


Jan 12, 2005 01:24 am

Thanks Bleak

I didnt know that I can get orchestra sounds by VST plugins. So I dont need MIDI afterall. I'll try to get one.

By the way, I came across this Korg Legacy; namm.harmony-central.com/...Collection.html

Its an expensive alternative, so I am not interested; but maybe one of you guys may (want to) have it.

Member
Since: Jan 09, 2005


Jan 14, 2005 11:50 am

Interesting diversion, there. Brought up a few questions for me that I may explore later.

For now, though, let's get back to me. :)

Here is what tech support just sent me:

Quote:
If you still have a file that crashes during playback, try choosing a different MIDI OUT device in your MIDI Setup. One difference between NotePad and PrintMusic is that NotePad did not have the SmartMusic Softsynth. It is likely that you were using a different synth device before. The SmartMusic Softsynth is a little higher quality sample of sounds than the ones that come with Microsoft or most sound cards. If you receive a crash with only the SmartMusic sounds, this would point to either not enough memory or the sound card cannot handle the soundfont.


They also said to close any background programs, which I already did, to no avail.

So... does this sound like they're still blowing smoke up my pipes, or does that actually make sense (I'm running 768MB RAM).

I haven't made it out yet to get another sound card.

Oh... and NotePad in this case is their free, scaled-down version of their software.

And actually, this seems like a good time to bring up the other question I have. What's a soundfont and is there a way I can test whether it works with my card outside of their software (like with another MIDI program... though I don't know what that would be)?

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