Dec 10, 2004 02:56 pm I mean to say : what are they really worth if you don't consider the price and compare them to equal products ???
Behringer ,again
Posted on Dec 10, 2004 02:52 pm
zildjiandude1
Member Since: Dec 10, 2004
hi guys ,
I'm pretty new to all the mixing/recording/etc. -stuff , and I just have to ask :
how come Behringer is so 'cheap' ?
what those prices they should be the only brand
people buy . I 've heard someone say they're the 'bang and the buck' , but do you mind leaving the buck out for this one and base your answer simply on quality .
THX
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Dec 10, 2004 02:56 pm I mean to say : what are they really worth if you don't consider the price and compare them to equal products ???
Dec 10, 2004 02:57 pm what behringer gear you thinking of in particular?
ive got a behringer mixer and preamp, and they both work beautifully, no complaints!
Dec 10, 2004 02:57 pm OK, if I had money as no concern, I would certainly go for an SSL console, or a full blown ProTools or Nuendo system. Behringer is good gear at a great price as opposed to great gear at a high price. They do use less expensive componenets where they can with sacrificing the least quality.
I personally think that Behinger exists for us, the home studio owner, for whom money is an object, and rather than cheap on everything and make inferior product, they do their research, and build there gear the best the can within a given price range. I for one think they do a phenominal job of it.
Dec 10, 2004 03:00 pm so you're saying they are a bit lesser and probably won't be found in professional studios ???
Dec 10, 2004 03:00 pm well i am hopefull that behringer pans out so to speak since i just found out that my wife got me monitors from them for x-mas but i did find this review to back it up www.soundonsound.com/sos/...ringertruth.htm as fot the rest of their product only hearsay for me but some say great others object ,but i'm giving em a shot because i am slowly find that cost is very important in this game.
Dec 10, 2004 03:02 pm What I am saying is the cost/benefit ratio.
Behringer mixers cost about half of what Mackie does, yet it's performance, to my ears, is maybe 5% lower...most of that being in the preamps.
Me, having to think about family first and studio later, my money is best spent for value for the dollar...as I suspect most here do.
Dec 10, 2004 03:04 pm so why doesn't everyone use Behringer if there so good and cheap ?
Dec 10, 2004 03:07 pm i'm sure that across the board they have strengths and weakness in certain areas more than others (not great for everything ) .as long as the monitors i'm getting work out i'll be willing to try more gear from them.
Dec 10, 2004 03:09 pm Multitudes of reasons, typically it's the most shallow reasons tho.
Sales people want the commission so they are often on a "behringer sucks" rampage to get the bigger commissions, and given their price, it's probably an easy idea to sell...
Mostly though, I really think people just like bragging rights..."I have an SSL", , "I have a Mackie", "I have a this", "I have a that".
I am by no means the smartest guy in the world, or the most talented musician or engineer, but, I refuse to get hung up, like many people do, worrying about what gear I have, but rather, about how to make the best use of the gear I have regardless of it's brand name.
I really think all to foten people totally focus their energy in the wrong direction, worrying more about acquiring the best of everything...rather than making music and making intellgent decisions.
The best gear with somebody who is clueless will still make crap sound, but moderate gear in the hands of somebody that knows how to use it can still sound great.
Dec 10, 2004 03:10 pm Well, if you ask around here, almost every one does. When you say everyone, do you mean home recording enthusiasts?
Some people can afford the extra money and the extra 10-20% means enough to them to spend the extra dough.
Dec 10, 2004 03:16 pm ya ,i agree with db .what kind of gear were they using 30 yrs ago ,whatever they could get there hands on then they added some creativity,alittle dab of common sense and shazam a recipe for a good bunch of tunes (sometimes)!does anybody even know shazam anymore?
Dec 10, 2004 03:46 pm dB is right...the main reason I have a Mackie is because a salesman sold it to me. (Mind you, I am EXTREMELY happy with it.) However, if I had to do it again, I would go with the Behringer, and then spend the money I saved on something else.
Dec 10, 2004 03:58 pm I have just bought a Behringer B1 MIC (well, Santa did but same diff, a Behri Composer and a Behri Virtualizer (both rackmounts) - I already own a VAMP2 and I can say, the stuff is top notch.
People bang aboot POD's (just whilst on aboot the VAMP2). It cost me £100 instead of £300+ (a pod would cost) and its not worth £200 less for sure.
So, aye, I'll go with Uli and co...as for studios with Behri gear...if I ever own a commercial studio, I will fill it with such items and some more expensive items and I'll tell the artists no different. Then, I'll let their ears be the judge and see who can tell if I Mackied, ProTools or whatever on em....
Aye...its all in the sound buddy - if it sounds good, it is good. (and if it costs less, all the better!!).
Cheers and goodluck to ya
Coco.
Dec 11, 2004 12:05 am behringer to mackie, as payless is to foot actions..
lol, i use the behringer compressor/limiter 1600 and all i got to say it EASY TO USE and awesome, i also use a behringre UB802 mixer, the only downfall is no on or off switch to the mixer but u can get a power conditioner for this....
you get what u pay for..
if you get more expensive gear, of course theres a diffrence, but if u can affford a yamaha mg 24, then get it but if not u can get a eurodesk sl3242fx for less, and not much diffrence, everything plays its role.. but alot of us around here cant afford to spend the type of money for a "HOME" studio
Dec 11, 2004 12:08 am instead of gettin the yamaha mg24 and getting the eurodesk sl3242fx like i said, you save like $340. u can go get 3 signal processors for $300 and still got 40 less..
Sum1 had told me "for cheaper stuff it takes more equipment to get a pure sound then gettin expensive gear and havin nice sound since start"
wrong! it depends how u set it up!
Dec 11, 2004 02:12 am If I where interested in opening a studio as a main source of income, I would buy Non-Behringer gear. This would be to primarily impress the customer. 80% of the folks out there getting recording done are not Eric Clampton. They believe that big buck equipment will result in quality music. I would cater to their beliefs.
I have seen a lot of Behringer gear in the most prestegious theators I have visited. There buried in the racks, and in use. The audiance does not know if they are listening to Behringer or whatever. A "golden ear" sound engineer will produce great results on Behringer or whatever especially when the whole mess is squashed down to 44.1 16bit on a CD.
The other consideration is what kind of service do you have in your area. If you are using your gear for your main income, there better be a plan to keep any down time down.
Relitive to the sound quality of Behringer for the project studio; Quite adaquate MHO.
Dec 11, 2004 06:40 am Thanks guys , this helped me out alot ; I think one day I'm just gonna go with some of the Behringer stuff instead of buying expensive Mackie stuff out of wich I probably couldn't get a better sound anyway (since I'm a newb.)
THX again
peace out ....:-)
Dec 11, 2004 06:43 am But is there certain equipment you wouldn't advice a Behringer for ??
Dec 11, 2004 06:44 am "Eric Clampton"? Who's he Walt?
Glad we helped, zildjiandude1, oh, and by the way, Behringer doesn't make cymbals :-)
Dec 11, 2004 06:47 am That is a VERY good question, from my experience thus far, having used effects units, mixers and amp sims, I can say I am happy with all of them.
I have not, however, ever heard their speakers.
Dec 11, 2004 07:11 am Quote:
i also use a behringre UB802 mixer, the only downfall is no on or off switch to the mixer but u can get a power conditioner for this...
that bugs me too - i might go fit one...
dont try this at home kids...
Dec 13, 2004 11:03 am I have the UB802 and the thing, the ONLY thing that bugs me is no on/off switch.
Flame- if you install one, send me the schematics, lol!
Dec 13, 2004 01:29 pm Quote: "Flame- if you install one, send me the schematics, lol!"
Should be a fairly simple task of installing a SPST switch between the power mains with an Open (off) Closed (on) configuration. Hell, you could probably make an exterior one and not even have to drill a hole in your console!
Dec 13, 2004 02:35 pm %^$^$%$ is so cheap because they don't do their own research and development many times, but reverse engineer other designs ie Mackie and DBX. They're in court alot because of this. I've been shown ripped apart *%*&&%%# products by dbx engineers with dbx chips in them.
Dec 13, 2004 03:25 pm guys I hope you don't mind that I use this thread to post my newb. questions .
So here's one of them :
what's the difference between an input and a return ( and an output and a send ) ?
Dec 13, 2004 03:28 pm that question kinda deserves a new thread (any totally new subject should be it's own thread unless it's a natural progression of convo in the thread)
Anyway, nothing really...you can use a return as an input and it'll get sent right to the main outs.
In theory, returns are used to return the signal from a send back into the mixer.
Dec 13, 2004 03:32 pm I know but that'll take alot of new threads ;-)
Dec 13, 2004 03:33 pm well, it'll be easier to deal with in new threads, than one thread going from topic to topic with no connection between them int he conversation.
Dec 13, 2004 06:15 pm Hi Karyn
Aint seen ya aroond in a while.
Thats may be so, but I thinks, as long as it sounds OK then I dont care how it was created - ya know.
It may be someone elses research, it may not but if its affordable, I'll use it. At the end of the day, we could go so far doon that road it could get silly...i.e. the first guy to create the microchip started it all - but I guess, its how we variate the theme that counts and effectively stops, plagerisim .... still, I dunno.
I just thinks, for the dough, yi canny whack the Behringer stuff.
All the best anyways
Coco.
Dec 13, 2004 06:46 pm We met this guy while in Australia a few weeks ago (I think thats right)...we found his address in the yellow pages selling Laney speakers...Jimi used a pair...they're those ones that revolve...
Well we bowl up to this address and its a house...thing...rough as guts...I was disappointed...well it'd taken a bit to get there...so we thought...ah well may as well knock on the door...you could see in the house a bit...and that was really disappointing...
And then my son mentioned Laneys...this guy took us in to his office which was perfect (a good sign)...and showed us round...we had a ball...
As it turned out he was the Laneys rep decades ago and must be one of the most experienced technicians...in...the...world...re Laneys...he fixes up amps, speakers, tubes everything...
My point is...its the skill you appreciate. This guy says the sale of Laneys in the Pacific makes no money anymore...b'cos they can't compete price wise with whats on the market today...but you know skill when you see it.
And like Coco and dB says...recording is aboot the sound...and the skill of the guy or guyess using the gear.
But I think whether you are in business or not its a good idea to look at cost when making your decision. Myself I think about what I think the return (financial and non financial)is or might be, including what I think its resale value might be. Not that I think that should be your approach zildjiandude.
Ah..I don't know if this is helpful...I'm hungry.
Cheers,
BM :-)
And PS...Karyn...always good to see you around.
Dec 13, 2004 08:51 pm Hey Boysmum, and Coco,
I agree Coco. You always need to do a cost benefit analysis when buying gear. Good analog gear I think will always hold its value compared to it's digital counterparts especially Mics and Mic preamps.
Only on HRC would Mackie be considered Hi end gear :) I think Mackie is very good gear, but if I bragged I had a Mackie on gear slutz they would laugh me off the board. :)...just sayin
Dec 14, 2004 12:25 am Lol Karyn...and thanks for putting us straight too...'cos...I also thought that Mackie was getting high end too.
Cheers,
BM :-)
Dec 14, 2004 02:15 am This whole thread is smacking of arrogance. I appologize for any offense that may envoke, but it is simply to the point of silly.
My first day in my journey to becoming and EE began with my instructor putting a dollor sign on the blackboard and theatricaly walking away and pointing back to it emphisizing "that is electronics!" "If you think it is anything else, find a new career choice".
I have studied 15 or more FM decoders, all diratives of the last. None worked any better than the last. Each itteration was just a matter of patton work around. Per stealing technology, I have little empathy. No concept is born of a vaccume. The process is building on what is collectively known to present. The hiring of an engineer per his or her past experience is not a rocket science concept either.
The reality that professional grade recording equiptment is now markatable to a much larger market base eg. home and project studio, enabling Behringer and others to take advantage of this new market place is only good news to me. The premadanas of the old limited marketplace are crying obviously unable to cope with change. Sharpen your pencils boys and girls! The free ride is over! It's a world market. The folks in the third world countries want to eat too!
When I listen to some of the poorply produced rubish that comes out of the industry because of harried, cut corner processes per the overhead involved in utilizing artificially inflated cost, snob equipment, it's just sad. And when the industry responds by producing entertainment that's only redeaming grace is that the lead singer wears her underwear on her head while scraping away at a getfiddle instead of shaprening their pencils to attract a larger talent base, that just adds insult to injury.
It's art. If you don't feel you can get up on stage until you can bring an unobtainium II getfiddle with you, get a shrink! Deal with the character defect prior to even attempting to be a musician. Impress me, make some sound. I don't care if you use an unobtainium II or something you carved out of a tree! Same goes for the sound engineering.
Dec 14, 2004 06:54 am Well, I guess Walt, that was what I wanted to say only far more eloquent!!
A top top post and I agree with all what you say to the point where I will be doing just that due to cost etc.
Maybe even one day in a commercial way, and if it dont work, then I will stand to loose money (tho it wont have cost me to buy a name). If I ever (which I hope to do one day) open a studio of sorts, I WONT be touching Pro-Tools REGARDLESS of industry opinion. I will be using a souped up PC, pleanty of RAM/HD SPACE/GHZ and some good VST apps and see where it takes me.
Anyways...very good point Walt and a top thread.
I guess, I will use certain gear due to financial constraints (i.e. being SKINT!) but thats not to say I dont want better gear - I just have NO Intention of ever paying £2000 for pro-tools when I can get good quality gear doing similar work for far less...pro-tools was just an example by teh way - I dont want to start a pro-tools war!! hehe.
Cheers guys
Coco.
Dec 14, 2004 11:38 am Well Coco, I don't know that it ranks as eloquent, especialy with my propensity to mispell every other word. I just hate to see folks, especially artists go down the road of arrogance, "one upmanship", "snob appeal". At all levels that motivation is purely a character defect. It has short lived value. It is demeaning to the human spirit. It will only encomber the person's development as an artist.
The Hoffner hollow body bass was no fine hand crafted instrument likend to a fine voilin. However an artist's abilities made it "famous".
Signature instruments kill me. Yessereedee Bob! Get yourself one of these here wackoWilly signed basses and sound just like ole Wacko himeslf! Aaaaak, next constentant please! Shop around, find an instrument with the sound you want and take it to a Luthier. The Luthier will apply his or her art and set the insturment up to maximize what you have in physical ability.
If you are artistic you must have some capacity for independant thought. Extend that to your gear. Move away from the heard of sheep and make your judgements on what you are wanting to achieve. Use your senses.
(Big bucks = success = quality product) is an equasion founded in falicy. These concepts are nonsequitors. This is simply an invetation to "buy" someone elses dream.
Read articles from sound engineers who record Eric Clapton. They will blatently state that they don't know how they could possibly make him sound bad, regardless of equipment used.
I find it astounding that we "people in general" can quickly catch on to "name riding" and "snob appeal" in some industries. Speakers are a great example. Bose had a period when they where the best. It didn't take long for folks to note that Polk Audio, JBL, Pinnacle, etc. sounded much better at less cost.
Comes to audio gear; where is the snafu? Is it the complexity of the equipment? Is there some mysticism surounding the gear? And especially here at HRC why would anybody be partaking of a site where "braging" takes place? What is that? It surely has nothing to do with the creation of music. Collectors display, musicians play.
Last note: What am I doing babbling here? I am not going to change anything or anybody. I just got a call from a friend who told me that a drummer that I would love to have wants to try out for a new quartet I am part of creating. Excelent charecter composit, very good musician. It's not like I'm lacking in well developed associations. Sometimes I wonder about me.
Dec 14, 2004 01:43 pm Your right Walt I think very often muscians think their just one Neuman, Manley, Avalon or Apogee away from being successfull, and they buy gear in lieu of actually doing the hard work of creating good music. Believe me, I have no gear worth bragging about. I buy gear that passes my listening tests. I have gear that gets the job done.
There are forums where people talk about the fidelity of the high end gear they have (this is not bragging, this is informative), and the people that are doing the talking are the most prestigious producers and engineers in the industry, hardly engineers with diminished educations. They use the gear they use because of the way it sounds. I think there is a fidelity difference between class A circutry and bottom of the barrel IC chips found in "well you know" To say there is no difference is to be uninformed. You don't need this hi end gear to record in your home of course!!! But don't delude yourself that Behringer is even the same as Manley please.
The saturation in the market of people recording at home has brought gear I could only imagine owning a few years ago into my home today. Programmed automated mixing, Flying faders, parametric EQ with Q for $3,000. This is free compared to what it used to cost (in hundreds of thousands) Yet, People are still looking for things even cheaper ie Can anybody recommend a good mixer for $50.00 or I'm thinking of getting a SM58, but can anyone recommend a good mic that's cheaper. For gods sake people it's already free. If you want to record it might cost more than 500.00. Realize this is a 10,000% discount from what it was 14 yrs ago. OK, Flame away
Dec 14, 2004 03:05 pm Well RC, I guess I owe you a margine of gratitude. That does answer my questions. There is a degree of mystisism surrounding audio gear. Different classes of amplification all have their place in engineering audio equipment. "Bottom of the barrel IC chips" become that for numerous reasons, Market buy in, overages, transitions in availibility, and on and on. One of the best little IC's I know of is truely a gutless wonder.
Bigger, better, more is the prevelant paradigm O-Da-Day. Regardless, gotta go. My fingers are getting no better on the upright bass by typing this.
Thanks again!
Dec 14, 2004 04:00 pm Walt's self appointed title should be "Philisophical Guru of technological wisdom"
After some of Walts posts I feel enlightened, however after Karyn's post I felt JACKED...lol
Dec 14, 2004 07:33 pm Glad I could bring some balance to your feelings Jason. :)
Dec 14, 2004 07:43 pm Ya Jason,
My bad. My first wife had a similar disposition to ole RC and I just could not resist doing a little baiting to see if I could light the string on her tampon. Old habits die hard. Ya gotta admit she handled it pretty well however!
Good job RC! Sorry bout that.
Dec 15, 2004 12:03 pm You mean she was kind, caring, helpful and informative. It's too bad she left you.
Dec 15, 2004 12:35 pm ...I don't want to make it sound like I was awe inspired but its fun to read the banter...
RC I have come to balance myself on the exact same opinion about gear price vs performace vs location...I have had folks tell me my audio was cleaner than some of those who they knew, had stuff done in a commercial studio. Not to say the way my audio comes out can top most anything, (actually I felt bad for the other people when I hear that) I have no gear I can brag about either but...what I can get done is another story.
RC hit it on the head and thats why I was jacked...hehe
and Walts post are as always great to get into...
Dec 15, 2004 12:51 pm Oh God, that was fun!
Nice skud there RC! You are a stich!
Dec 15, 2004 12:51 pm Yeah, I believe in milking the gear I have for all it's worth and then deciding whether it's worth the hundreds or thousands to wrench that extra 5 or 10% of fidelity out of it. Will it affect one CD sale? No.
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