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| vdalehubbard Lost for words with all to say.  Contributor Since: Sep 12, 2003  |
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Dec 01, 2004 09:33 am At my church, we are talking about getting a much better sound then what we have. I have always thought we need upgrades, never said it out loud because who wants to be told that after thousands of dollars spent that it isn't enough? Plus, I didn't want the task as "soundman" there because I have a fulltime job, girlfriend, finishing up our recording, and I play live too so I can't do it...otherwords, my plate is full. But at practice last night, our pastor (which is our bass player and lead singer...cool eh?) talked about how our sound has gotten louder. I knew we had but I thought it sounded better. So, I came out and suggested compressors to help out. We need them on the drums big time and it will so much improve the sound, I've seen what it could do to the recordings. This is what we have equipment wise to give an idea of what we have set up. PA of Bose system speakers. Awesome VERY expensive speakers that ARE NOT used to what they should sound like. For example, here's a link to the sub woofer we have: service.bfast.com/bfast/c...mp;bfmtype=gear Yes, very expensive. We have a 24 channel Peavy board and Peavy amps that looks like it's been through it. Wiring looks dingy also. We have an Alesis MidiVerb 3 for effects (want another effect box for drums or different vocal effect,etc.) We have some SM58's for vocals and the guitarist have some cheap AKG mics for them (want some SM57's). Drum mics are Audix Fusion 6 sets that are great and pick them up good. Only using kick and two overheads (want to get a small board and mic every component to get a better mix). I want to ask the board what they would start with improving our sound. I'm thinking compressors and tighting up the volume and puttin punch on drums which don't seem to be there sometimes. Weird post I know, but I'm just thinking outloud here and like to hear what others here think. Thanks |
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dB Masters HRC Czar  Administrator Since: Apr 03, 2002 |
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Dec 01, 2004 09:40 am The first thing that stand out to me is wondering if you have sound shields around the drums, like these service.bfast.com/bfast/c...mp;bfmtype=gear they are quite common to see in church situations where volume is an issue, also common are elctronic drums run from a sound module. Much easier to control. Outside of that, yes, if you have no compressors I would say get an 8-channel compressor strip and run across a few channels, vocals as well as drums. Also, I assume the room has been properly rung out, but, if not, you need a 30-band or so EQ and ring it out to get rid of any bad frequencies that may resonate and make it seem louder than it is. Or, perhaps tuning the sanctuary with more absorbing surfaces or reflective surfaces may help as well. |
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| vdalehubbard Lost for words with all to say. Contributor Since: Sep 12, 2003 |
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Dec 01, 2004 09:58 am Ah yes, forgot that part. Yes, we actually have a built "room" for the drums on the corner of the stage. I've been meaning to take pictures and show people because our guitar player has worked in construction all his life and built this thing and it is totally awesome. We've had the drum shields you can buy and even built a roof on it because it didn't do justice. Our drummer played Roland drums for over a year because of this problem with real drums. Well, he got an awesome Pearl BRX set and we built something that works great now for loud drums. Electric drums all the time just can't have that live sound with real drums. Also, our ceiling is lower then a normal church sanctuary and our monitors bounce off the stone wall behind us causing much trouble there. Yes, we have an EQ but not sure on how many bands it is. Need to adjust that EQ to get rid of frequencies that are causing trouble. Been meaning to do that. Good call. |
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| dB Masters HRC Czar Administrator Since: Apr 03, 2002 |
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Dec 01, 2004 10:05 am You might be very surprised exactly how big of a difference ringing out a room does. Your best bet is to get a simple, stereo 30 (or so) band EQ (Alesis MEQ230 comes to mind) and ring the room out well, then, get some plexiglass cut to the size of the face of the unit and screw it in front of the EQ so nobody can mess with it again. For those of you reading and are not familiar with "ringing out" (I assume you are vdale) I will explain: Turn down the mains on your board, put a microphone in the middle of the room and aim it right at one of the FOH speakers. Turn up the mains until you get feedback and stop, if you are really good you can ride the feedback with good fader placement so it doesn't increase and does go away. Then, go down the EQ and find the band that is feeding back and turn it down, turn it up a little more until the next feedback and do the same. You will often find the feedback jumps between high, mid and low frequencies. After you do that a hlaf-dozen times or so, your system should sound much better. Then cover that EQ and never touch it again. |
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| Tom P. Hillbilly Deluxe  Member Since: Nov 25, 2004 |
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Dec 01, 2004 01:24 pm Hey all, i believe compressors are essential in any type of live situation. I also think that a room analyzer and a sonic maximizer are great pieces of equipment to have, the analyzer will help with the rooms "frequencies"---"ringing out"..i hope im explaining this ok dB...:) and the maximizer will help bring clarity to the overall sound..at which point you can bring down volume levels and still have the clarity needed. But im also a big believer that you still need to have gains and master volumes opened up a certain amount to get the "right" sound...hope this helped somewhat...Tom P |
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| drake who is this?  Member Since: Apr 13, 2004 |
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Dec 01, 2004 03:35 pm totally.... i run sound in different venues constatly and spend almost as much time on the 30-band EQ getting the room set as i do sound checking the band!! makes such a difference for only $150-$200 worth of gear. also vdale... you guys run a crossover for the subs?? if not may wanna think about it, that'll really help bring out some juice in the system. also as Tom P. said, invest $100-200 in a sonic maximizer if you wanna really sparkle up the sound. |
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| Walt Secretary of Insight  Member Since: May 10, 2002 |
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Jul 26, 2007 01:45 am Oh God, here comes the old fart. Ringing out a room, Absolutely. Compressers, maybe depending on the problem. Nothing beats a good set of ears on the floor. Stage sound is not audiance sound. If that good set of ears tells the bassist to cut the bottom because the room is resonating do it. Ok, it's not as satisfying to the bassist on the stage, but the audiance will love you. If the guitarist can't 'feel his thing' until he drives people out of the room, he needs to go home and practice. If the volume increase is a result of ego wars, you need a director. Even if you rehearse in the sanctuary, you can't judge your sound from an empty room. |
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| zekthedeadcow Eat Spam before it eats YOU!!!  Member Since: May 11, 2002 |
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Jul 26, 2007 11:08 am Instead of a 30band EQ I would suggest a DBX Driverack www.homerecordingconnecti...=DBXDRIVERACKPA www.homerecordingconnecti...product=DBXRTAM it's a EQ, crossover, feedback destroyer, and limiter and with the mic it can autopink a room in about 2 minutes. It's what I use at church. |
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| Walt Secretary of Insight Member Since: May 10, 2002 |
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Jul 26, 2007 10:32 pm The Driverack is a really nice piece. |
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| fren hie29 http://www.mpaudiovisual.com Member Since: Jul 13, 2007 |
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Jul 28, 2007 01:01 pm I always use smart on my laptop where ever I go www.eaw.com/products/software/index.html and go from there with your graf and parametric EQ |
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| Noize2u Czar of Midi  Administrator Since: Apr 04, 2002 |
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Jul 31, 2007 08:01 pm Its funny to watch you guys all posting to threads that are 4 and 5 years old already. But hey, its all good. Keeps some of this stuff up top for those who have not seen it. |
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| fren hie29 http://www.mpaudiovisual.com Member Since: Jul 13, 2007 |
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Aug 02, 2007 11:49 am good point, I never look at the posting date, so i am basically talking to myself. |
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| Noize2u Czar of Midi Administrator Since: Apr 04, 2002 |
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Aug 04, 2007 08:14 pm Na, you know someone else will jump in as well. |
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