Delta 44-- Driver problem/question
Posted on Nov 16, 2002 07:41 pm
a.k.a. Porp & Mr. Muffins
Member Since: Oct 09, 2002
I'm running the Delta 44 on Windows XP and I'm really confused why under all the input driver selection areas (Everywhere on the computer) it lists both "Delta 44 __" and "Delta 44 Multichannel __" inputs 1/2, 3/4, and in the case of the Multichannel ones, 5/6 as well. This is really weird since there are only 4 inputs in the card... In the windows sound settings it displays both "Delta 44 Multichannel" and "Delta 44 1/2" outputs. This makes no sense! Which ones should I choose? They both work, and both can have the internal clock or whatever set to them. I'm really, really confused...
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Nov 16, 2002 07:49 pm I also wanted to add that I am having some trouble with static and noise coming from the Delta. It's not popping or clicking (I already fixed that problem) but it has an audible, but not real noticeable static that I know is coming from the card (I've gone through all the other connections in my system). I'm just wondering if this is normal and if it is, is it actually recording the static, or just playing it back? By the way, this site rocks! I like the new gray border :-)
Nov 16, 2002 09:36 pm First, glad ya like the new site. You know you can go into your personal profile and pick form four different color schemes now :-) With more to come as I get time to make some...
The "Multichannel" is your S/PDIF out that can also send signal as a 5.1 surround sound signal. so it has channels 1-6 for the 6 channels of the Dolby Digital surround sound field. Those being:
Front left and right
Rear left and right
Nov 16, 2002 09:46 pm Whoa-- Thanks, but now I'm really confused :-) The Delta 44 doesn't have S/PDIF on it, that's only for the Delta 66, right? I suppose you might be talking about something else inside the actual card. So what should I select for the recording inputs and outputs and what should I set for my default playback and record in the windows sounds dialog box? Sorry to sound so clueless, I really should know this since I've been using the card for a few months now, but I don't understand the whole surround sound and digital output thing and all...
Nov 17, 2002 05:50 am Oh, your right, it doesn't have S/PDIF...ya know what, I am confused now too...hopefully Noize2u will see this thread, he has the 44 as well, maybe he can chime in...
As far as the surround sound field goes, it's not that hard, just more channels of sound, that's all...
Nov 17, 2002 07:18 am hmm. i have an older Delta44. Win98 and all my audio apps report only pairs of "1/2" and "3/4" (except cakewalk, which breaks them down for me) and i've never had any kind of noise from it. it's crystal clear on the way in and back out.
as for whcih channels to use, use whichever ones sound right to you. You might find one to be more latent that another if the drivers are emulated etc... i think i'm really lost too..!
Nov 17, 2002 02:17 pm which gets me thinking.. if you've narrowed it down to the card causig the hiss.. describe your signal path.
Nov 18, 2002 03:51 pm Well, I guess I'm not ABSOLUTELY sure about the card causing the hiss, but my signal path is like this: Instrument/mic, Behringer Eurorack mixer, Compressor (out main 1 and 2, no compressor out Alt 3 and 4), M Audio Delta 44, Dell Computer, Sonar, Delta out 1/2, Mixer Tape input, headphone/control room out, M Audio Monitors. I already know that my monitors make a little bit of a hissing sound, but there is another sound on top of that that can also be heard through the headphones. It's not very loud though. I isolated the mixer and it didn't make any noise by itself (Well, maybe a LITTLE). I also noticed that having my computer monitor on adds some hiss as well, but not a big deal, and there's still another hiss going on there... I suspect it's natural and I'm just being real picky. I can't really even hear it unless I really crank it--- but I still am cluless about that driver issue... No reply from M Audio yet and I suspect I'll never recieve one if things go as they usually do with them :-)
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Nov 19, 2002 09:26 pm The software for teh Delta will show 5/6, which is the digital input's even in the 44 version. It is just not available on the 44. I have heard someone else that had teh driver's appear all over XP also, he didn't have any audio trouble though so he just left it be without any trouble.
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Nov 19, 2002 10:45 pm ive got a delta 66 and have no noise at all from my card. im also running windows xp. and still havent had any problems with noise or interference or anything at all. i actually like this OS for recording.
you asked about audio settings.. and they say a picture is worth a thousand words. so im using one.
hope it helps to some degree.
Nov 20, 2002 05:39 am So the ins and outs 5 and 6 will show up in the 44 even though the card doesn't have them?
To me that seems like pretty poor attention to detail in driver development. I can see where that is confusing to someone. That really disappoints me that M-Audio would have that kinda cheesy driver.
They should easily be able to have the driver query the card, see which one it is and display the mixer accordingly. So they can still use the same program as drivers for multiple cards but still have it appear accurately.
Nov 20, 2002 08:19 am PorpoiseMuffins:
A little bit noise is normal, even the best stuff has a *little* hiss in it. Not to mention that great big of a chain of equipment you've got there. At least I think so anyways :OD
As for the Delta Control Panel:
yeah i always felt it was kind of a below-the-belt marketing scheme. see in collapses's pic, notice the part on the right side of the Delta display "Hardware Installed" with only one device shown, showcasing their ability to easily integrate multiple Delta cards. With all the people I've met using these cards, I still have yet to talk to anyone who actually installed two smaller cards and wasted a valuable PCI slot and IRQ assignment instead of just buying a better card. I'm not complaining.. i swear. I love my soundcard. but c'mon, that's either sneakiness or laziness. wait a sec... i'm sneaky and lazy....
Nov 20, 2002 01:49 pm Thanks a lot guys. I finally got a response from M-Audio and I just about laughed out loud at how pathetic the service was. Listen to this:
I am trying to figure out what the difference between the "Delta 44
multichannel 1/2" and the "Delta 44 1/2" inputs and outputs
are. Whenever I have a list of drivers displayed, it includes the
"Monitor mixer", "Delta 44 Multichannel", and "Delta 44" inputs and
outputs. Both of them work fine, but they both do exactly the same
thing-- so I don't know which to use during recording and
playback. Also- in the windows sound settings, there is a selection
between "Delta 44 Multichannel" output and "Delta 44 1/2"
output. I'm really confused since the instruction manual doesn't
mention this in it. I don't know if it has something to do with the XP
drivers or what--- Please Help!
Also- Is it normal to hear some static coming from the card (I know it is
the card-- not something else) if it's turned up loud during playback,
monitoring, and recording? And if so, does it actually record this static
during recording? Thanks.
That was my E-Mail...
Select 1/2 for both record and playback for your application.
multi track is for recording multiple tracks at once
That was the long awaited response!
So all they did was sort of answer one little part of my big question... I think I'm going to go to the site and try to download a more recent manual to see what it says.
Nov 20, 2002 02:24 pm wow, you musta got "the new guy" or maybe they're hiring from the unemployment office these days. hey porpoisemuffins, if you feel like it, email me a tiny snippet of recorded audio, just dead air from your setup, and ill tell you if it's abnormally noisey. my addy's in my profile and keep it a mono wav and under 300KB. ill take a look. -j
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Nov 20, 2002 09:28 pm In the manual for the 44 they state it in big black letter's that the software mixer will show the digital control but it is grayed and disabled.
Since: Apr 04, 2002
But the thing that happened in XP is something new. I checked all over my ME box and could find nothing showing what he is getting. But as I said, I had heard of a couple of other's who had the same thing happen, windows was trying to open what wasn't there. I am wondering if these guy's all got driver software for the Delta 66 instead, or DL's driver's over the net and DL's the wrong one's?
Nov 21, 2002 01:58 pm Actually, in the Monitor Mixer, the S/PDIF stuff is grayed out. It's just in Sonar where 5/6 is also listed. I just downloaded the drivers for XP again, and nothing changed. M-Audio drives me mad sometimes, although they can also be the greatest. I'll send you a clip, Jamie, as soon as I get around to it. Thanks for the help.
Nov 22, 2002 11:50 am dude, i just got your email, and there is almost *no* noise in this wav. you're getting the same incredibly quiet conversions i get out of my Delta44. WaveLab's normalizer claims the highest peak is -73.41dB. In fact I dont even think I get *that* quiet when I record off of my mixer. It must be your sound monitors or your amp. Your card is working sweet :O) -j
Nov 22, 2002 02:37 pm Thanks a lot, Jamie. I'm glad to hear that :-) I guess it's just that I don't really have anything to compare the Delta to. I was really cranking it when I heard the noise anyway, so it must just be me being really nitpicky, or maybe my monitors or headphones. Thanks for checking that out for me. Well, I've got a recording session tonight, so I better get back into the "studio" :-) I'll do some more fooling around to try and resolve that driver issue.
Nov 22, 2002 03:17 pm no problem. you might have had it cranked. one way to tell is to have your sequencer (Sonar right?) play a drum track with loud part and quiet parts to compare the signal to noise ratio with your own ears. chances are with something playing the noise level will be acceptable -j
Nov 28, 2002 04:20 am I have just recently swithed to XP, and im having the same problems as everyone else. I downloaded the new wdm drivers for the 44 and in sonar i get the 1/2, 3/4 and all the multi channels, not to mention the 5/6 as well. I thought maybe i had the wrong drivers as well, so i unistalled everything and re installed the wdm drivers for the 44 again. Nothing new happend. whats even more fustrating is that i am getting lower latency with my 30 dollar philips card than i am with the delta 44.
The philips gives me 2ms at 4400 sample rate with 2 buffers, while the delta 44 gives me like 8.7ms with the same sample rate and buffer settings. Why am i getting lower latency on a 30 dollar sound card than i am on the delta 44? I am starting to think that maudio's drivers really suck.
Nov 28, 2002 07:22 am Idle curiosity, which Philips card do you have? I beta tested the 605 Sonic Edge for Philips (which got me a free card) and own the 706 Acoustic Edge. Philips, while making great cards for gaming and watching movies, couldn't make a recording card to svae their lives, and it is clear to me that they have no intention of doing so.
Your Delta may need some tweaking. In Sonars options you may need to make sure the proper ins and outs are enabled and that you are actually using the WDM drivers as opposed to the MME or ASIO drivers. Also, have you run the Wave Profiler to have Sonar set it up automagically? Sometimes it works well, sometimes it will need some tweaking. That said, it has been a LONG time since I have looked at any Cakewalk/Sonar product so I may be a little off in my terminology.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Nov 28, 2002 11:45 am Nope, you are spot on dB. It is best to let Sonar do the first set-up, and then go tweak from there if need be. And your term's are quit correct.
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Nov 29, 2002 02:54 am Thanks for the help db master. I have a few mor questions.
I have the philips psc604. It has been acting up in sonar today though. Ive been testing it with sonar all week and its worked fine, but today i started to get a message when i start sonar. It says " the following drivers do not support the current audio format, or are in use by another application" followed by a list of the phillips drivers.. It then gives me the option to disable them or use them anyway. If i choose use anyway it still works and is still giving me better latency than the delta 44. U said that i might need to make sure that i am actually using the wdm drivers for the delta? How do i go about doing that? In sonar in the drivers page it dosnt show wther its wdm, mme, asio ect.. It just shows if ur using 1/2 3/4 multi channel ect...
Also I still have all theese extra drivers showing up in my audio I/O properties.
for the input drivers it shows:
delta44 multichannel 1/2
delta44 multichanel 3/4
delta44 multichannel 5/6
delta44 mono mixer.
Whats the deffrance between multi channel 1/2 and regular 1/2? and why is it showing a 5/6?
The delta 44 dosent have a 5/6 input???
Any help with this is greatly appreciated. thx
Nov 29, 2002 07:15 am ah, the 604, yes that is the 4.1 version of the 605, same card, same drivers, different output config. Again, great cards for gaming and such but not for recording. By the way, version 3.00 drivers have been released for the 604/605. From my usgae of them so far on my 605 they are a pretty good step up from the 2.11 drivers.
Get 'em here: pcsound.philips.com/english.html
Anyway, in regards to the 5/6 outputs, I dunno what the deal is with that. As far as your error about unsupported file type. Was that file originally made with the Delta? The Delta support much higher sample rates and bit rates than the 604 can, so you may have recorded a 24-bit 96Khx sample rate audio file, which will not work with the 604 (or most common consumer sound cards) as it only supports up to 16-bit 44.1 Khz sample rate.
As far as the latency goes, it may require some tweaking of the wave profiler results of the Delta. Also, go into the Sonar hardware config and make sure the 5/6 outputs are disabled since you don't have them anyway, run the profiler and see what happens.
Beyond that I will let someone (like Noize2U maybe) that has more knowledge of Sonar help you with fine tuning. I am a Vegas Video/Nuendo man myself.
Nov 29, 2002 05:45 pm I kept on E-mailing M-Audio about the drivers thing and they kept on skipping around the question and giving me short, inadaquate, poor attempts at answers. I kept on having to clarify it for them more and more until they just didn't reply anymore. They must figure that ignoring customers is better than admitting their drivers are terrible. Right now I just use the multichannel ones since those are the ones Sonar likes to use when I do the wave profiler, and I set all my Windows settings to multichannel and the timing masters to multichannel 1/2.
Nov 29, 2002 10:49 pm The error im getting isn't for a file. I get it as soon as sonar opens (befor i open any files. What it says is that the philips driver are either not sipported by sonar, or are in use by another application. it gives me the option to either diable them ot use them anyway. If i diable them than they dont show up in the drivers list is sonar. If i choose "use anyway" They are avalible for me to choose in the driver list and if i choose them they work fine.
I still have one more question. How can i tell if im using the WDM drivers on my delta when im using sonar. When i check driver properties it shows a ton of drivers installed for the delta. WDM happens to be one of them so i know that they are installed but, I dont know how to tell if its using them in sonar or one of the other drivers when im running sonar.
I would like to thank u guys for the help. This forum rocks. I usualy hang around the gas station at sonicstate.com and ive been posting threads about theese problems ive been having for a while now, and i havent gotton any replies. So once again thx for the help. I
Aug 21, 2003 12:15 pm I believe the 5/6 inputs are the monitor mixer.output of the H/W control panel. But I just got the 44 so I am not sure.
Aug 21, 2003 07:16 pm Oh wow! I started this post like a year ago :-) haha! I forgot about this.
Aug 21, 2003 07:49 pm This ones from back before I even joined :D
Since: Dec 30, 2002
Aug 21, 2003 07:56 pm As I recall, from the line "By the way, this site rocks!," It was around the time I actually began posting a lot at the site. I had been snooping around for some time beforehand, though...
Aug 21, 2003 07:57 pm Oh, and, yes, Disposable, I did finally figure that out about the 5/6 ones a few months later. You're right about that.
Aug 21, 2003 10:49 pm yeah me too! hey Porpoise, I still have that little snippet of audio you sent me!
Aug 22, 2003 05:59 pm Oh yeah! haha. Cool :-)
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