iMac G5, good for home recording?...

> > > iMac G5, good for home recording?...

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Member Since: Sep 10, 2004

What do you think about the new iMac G5 in the home recording setup?

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Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Sep 11, 2004 12:57 am

I have heard peeps are getting fair result swith them. Just remember on the Mac side there is a bit more limit to the software and hardware you will have available to use.

That said, indeed there are some good things out there. Priced a bit more then the typical PC stuff but there for the buying.

I guess I would have a look around at anyone you might know running one or check it out at the local computer store and see how you like it. But yes they are very capable of running studio software and hardware without a doubt.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Sep 11, 2004 05:50 am

Yeah, other than the price the G5 is great the way I hear it.

think for yourself
Member
Since: Apr 29, 2004

Oct 01, 2004 05:01 am

many people beleive that they are limited when switching to a mac, but they are not. Mac has programs that let you run PC programs on a mac, and if you are talking about making music, well, that is what macs are best at. for the fact that a macs usually have a higher bit system (32 bit and 64 bit, compaired to an 16 bit and in the last year a processor that emulates a 32 bit, even though it is still a 16 bit[the whole hyperthread thing] and their workload per second is far greater than a PC, evedent prom their bit processor. you can have a 2 ghz processor but it will do you nothing all the better if it only processes at 16 bits. The PC world has said that workload per second is not important till just recently, and that was in part to the fact that they were retards.

I have a g3 and a g3 with a g4 upgrade, and a G4, and I have a p4 and a p3, the macs are far superior in running audio, the pcs on the other handle other things better, a tool is a tool, and all tools should be used properly.

I would say if you have the capabilaty to go with a G5, meaning the oney it takes to get one, then go for it


...although if you were to go to a pro studio, or a digital animation studio, most likely they are running macs.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Oct 01, 2004 07:02 am

Running that virtual PC crap on a Mac is very unstable. Mac is a great platform, the G5 does rock, and yes, many pro facilities use it, but many also use ProTools, and in both cases the tide is changing.

While the benchmarks do favor mac in many ways, the money and necessity isn't there any more because the PC platform has made great strides in the last couple years in performance, price and stability.

That said, they are both very capable platforms, and both completely able to handle the task. Though Mac users tend to not feel that way for some elitist reason, those that have used both know it to be true.

Jack of all trades master of ___
Member
Since: May 28, 2004

Oct 01, 2004 09:38 am

Some Mac users tend to act like the little brother who knows of one thing he can do better than the big brother...

I have never used a Mac in this application but I do significant reading whenever I see an article on the Mac & pro audio...I do not doubt it's reputation. If I had the money I would have one.

You do see it in every pro facility they show on TV and it is highly recommended for doing graphic arts also...
Let this debate not be the civil war of the recording arts...Where one is strong the other is weak.

PC is just as good I feel. I have done good using mine for 3 years now. I don't have an average of $3000 to shell out on a Mac. It suits a user like me to build a tank of a PC that can do just as well as a Mac for under $1000...and be able to build it over time too in order to budget myself.....a part here a part there.

Its discouraging when one comes on 'pimping' one system over another when in actuallity it is neck and neck and simply all "User Preference"...

think for yourself
Member
Since: Apr 29, 2004

Oct 01, 2004 05:12 pm

that is all cool, I am sorry if I came across as "the little brother who knows of one thing he can do better than the big brother..." I have used both and know both platforms well. I understand the whole money situation, believe me, I don't have the money for a mac either, the only reason that I have mine is the fact that I keep an eye out for them, for all of my macs I have paid a total of $700. and the memory for the g3s is cheap, the g4, well... the price is coming down is all I have to say.

I didn't mean to spark a civil war, I just know that there are a lot of misconceptions about macs and little knowledge out there in the hands of the masses. I get a little protective of the misunderstood in all cases. Forgive me.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Oct 01, 2004 05:42 pm

no problem, man, everyone has their opinions, it's all good.

Member
Since: Oct 04, 2004

Oct 06, 2004 06:53 pm

Dual 2.4ghz G5 with 4gig of RAM, Cant go wrong there.

I'm back bitches!!!
Member
Since: May 27, 2004

Oct 07, 2004 05:28 am

"Buy Microsoft stock, not there products!"

Of course I own three PCs and would love to afford a MAC. But the MAC mentioned above runs about $3000.00. I built my PC for under $1000.00.

"Need is the ultimate monkey."

Now that is probably more appropriate for the home recording community.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Oct 07, 2004 05:56 am

I have 4 (maybe 5, I forget) Windows PC's and a Linux PC, I had a Mac at my last job, and, as it turns out might be buying a Mac in the near future, but not for the studio. I fail to see the cult-like following of the Mac. It's totally one thing to say that one likes their Mac because they are comfortable with it and it does everything they need it to do. It's totally another thing to say that Mac is plainly superior, Windows sucks, blah, blah. blah.

The fact remains both Windows and Mac can do the job equally well, with each OS and architecture having it's strong points and weak points. Mac has one of the bigger weak points that affects most home studios, that being price. That not withstanding, if you can afford it you will get a machine that is no better or worse at recording, but, what you will get is a system that is far less likely to be a victim of viruses and other 'net threats. Windows is the primary target for these because 95% of all workstations are Windows...and everybody always wants to topple a winner...as soon as somebody takes over the lead role, be it Linux, Mac or whatever, they will be the next target...

And. though off topic, it's worth mentioning, don't use IE and Outlook for surfing and email (Use FireFox and Thunderbird) and you cut your chances of problems substantially :-)

Jack of all trades master of ___
Member
Since: May 28, 2004

Oct 07, 2004 09:31 am

I didn't mean you directly hybrid...

I would have a Mac too if I could afford it, whether it was for audio or not...I heard plenty good things about it, the only thing that sucks (not to beat a dead horse) is the price. It just that I have dealt with some Mac users who can't see the grass is green on both sides of the fence and it irritates the hell out of me....


Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Oct 10, 2004 10:47 am

Jason and dB bring the good point up. Those who cant see both sides being just fine. Nuff said there.

dB is more then correct on the Firefox and Thunderbird thing. Since I switched to Firefox (dB 's best advice) I have not had one pop-up nor any nasty net crap intruding into my PC. I am more then just impressed. I am installing it on my boyz game box as well and will probably runit on the rest of the PC's in the house too.

So if you surf as much as I do to as many strange places as myself and the boyz try Firefox and you will be surprised at the crap it stops.

think for yourself
Member
Since: Apr 29, 2004

Oct 11, 2004 02:16 pm

all i have to say is macvspc.info, and the other thing is the duel 2.5 ghz G5 has the capability of having 8 gig of ram, twice that of the leading PC capability, yeah that cost an extra $2400, and that does wonders for all the plugins that i run, before i bounce them, but if I got another g5 down the road I can daisy chain them and run them as one computer. Next up it is cheaper in the long run to run a mac than a pc, I have spent about $300 on a pc that was given to me for free, and I have spent $40 on TWO macs that were given to me. These were on fixing them, not upgrading them, which is still cheaper. I would rather buy a computer that I know will not crash and will still be top of the line in 4-5 years and not spend a ton on fixing it than pay for one that I have been continually having trouble with. I run a business, and Time = Money, in that equasion and any other that has to do with cost, Macs cost less in the long run. I am not sorry that I have a preference to macs, I can't afford many nice things, but for those things that I see as worth it I find a way.


Again, I am sorry that I have caused this much trouble.

think for yourself
Member
Since: Apr 29, 2004

Oct 11, 2004 02:20 pm

note on G5, i just got done testing one... HELLA FAST!!! and now I am getting one, one way or another.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Oct 11, 2004 02:29 pm

You haven't caused trouble, and by no means should you appologize for having a good, well thought out opinion. But, there are several sides to every issue.

- For one, My PC never crashes, that instability problem that was so notorious back with the WIndows 95/98 days is long gone, Windows XP is every bit as stable as any Mac platform that I have ever worked with.

- Also, NO personal computer will be top of the line in 4-5 years, if you honestly believe that you are fooling yourself.

- While 8 GB of ram is cool, I do some hard core work on my PC and have never needed more than the 1GB I have. Most plugins use more CPU power than they do RAM. I have run globally used servers with less the 4GB of RAM.

- PC's can share computer power with many apps as well. Steinberg does that for one.

I also run a business and have for many years, so I know exactly what you mean by time=money. Additionally, I totally respect your opinion, and am a firm believer in the "if it works for you, run with it" theory, therefore, rock on with your Mac, it's working for ya. But, don't do what so many do and put blinders on to other options out there for others even if they are not your choices, and don't base your opinions around very old, outdated examples such as the stability problem you used.

While these things won't make you change your mind (and really shouldn't) it does mean that the advice you give others is clouded and sometimes incorrect.

Promoting your choice by stating it's strengths and by those merits alone is wonderful, but when one starts in with the "it's better than this because..." type of argument and the argument is old, outdated and/or incorrect, you are then being counterproductive. There are things that Mac has good and bad, and there are things that PC has good and bad, but be sure you know the current facts of both.

think for yourself
Member
Since: Apr 29, 2004

Oct 11, 2004 02:40 pm

you are right in my stating process, I could have used a better way to come across, and I really do not mean to come across as if I would never use a PC nor own one, just the opposite. I try my best to keep up on both platforms in the way of programing and software for the benifit of business. I am just a very defensive person all in all, ask my wife, she hates it.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Oct 11, 2004 03:29 pm

Your wife and my wife could start a support group :-)

Jack of all trades master of ___
Member
Since: May 28, 2004

Oct 11, 2004 03:39 pm

No cause of trouble by you Hybrid...
No apology needed, I think dB said basically what I felt at the time...in his last paragraph...

All love here @ HRC

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Oct 11, 2004 03:41 pm

Well, HRC loves havin' ya :)

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Oct 12, 2004 12:08 am

OK, I am liking the wife started support group thing.

Would that get them out of our hair for a good quiet session in the studio without being bothered for something as silly as smashing the bug on the kitchen wall.


And yes I am serious, smashing a bug! Right in the middle of my best guitar take in years!

think for yourself
Member
Since: Apr 29, 2004

Oct 12, 2004 04:54 pm

yeah, the wife inspired me to have a few rules:

-No cell phones whatsoever on the premisis of the studio, must be left at home

-No significant others, must be left at home, including mine

I have no phone in my studio so that makes for a quiet time away from the real world

Jack of all trades master of ___
Member
Since: May 28, 2004

Oct 12, 2004 06:19 pm

Well in the case of my previous location I would need a wrecking ball and a good disguise for crumbling the fire dept located 1 block down the street when after 20 takes my buddy is finally nailing his vocals...when all the sudden someone needs one of those noise making trucks....

Not ripping the fire dept. at all here...
Just noting the uncontrollable interruptions...

Member
Since: Oct 21, 2004

Oct 21, 2004 02:47 pm

Audio and visual pros choose the Mac OS X platform for many different reasons. Primarily, the stability factor is key...protected memory and advanced memory management ensure that one rogue process doesn't kill everything else that's running. There's nothing more painful than the blue screen of death at 3am after countless hours of creative work. You don't get blue screens in OS X. It's built on top of a Unix core, if that tells you anything at all. For A/V folks, Mac OS X is a must-have given that Darwin (the Unix core) was built to enhance OpenGL. This goes a long way to explain why aging Silicon Graphics Machines are being replaced in Hollywood by PowerMacs everyday. Quartz - the composited windowing system in OS X Panther - works with a built in graphics card unique to Mac computers to optimize graphics performance to levels unparalleled in desktop computing. It's been a part of Mac OS X for years....Microsoft is taking a stab at something similar to be released in 2006..maybe.

Audio? Aside from the afore mentioned stability factor, Mac OS X Core Audio integrates a range of audio functionality directly into the operating system delivering performance optimization unique to Mac. The Core Audio HAL (Hardware Abstraction Layer) provides ultra low latency communication between applications and I/O devices that is measurably more efficient than previous solutions. The Core Audio HAL allows multiple applications to share the same device, a feature new to Mac OS X. This means that you could assign channels one through six of a eight channel output device to a multi-track program, such as Logic Pro 7, while leaving a virtual instrument like Reason with channels seven and eight.

And because this performance is built directly into Mac OS X, you experience the same ultra low latency out of the box on any Apple system. Go from the Power Mac G5 in your studio to your PowerBook on the road — you get consistent performance every time. Also, MIDI services are directly integrated into Mac OS X.

Price? I got an 1.8 GHz iMac G5 with 160GB Serial ATA 8200 RPM HD, 2GB DDR400 SDRAM RAM, 600Mhz FSB and a Superdrive (CD and DVD burner in one). All of this is packed into a beautiful 20" cinema display - about 2" thick and weighing around 20lbs. Apple's state-of-the-art heat management system keeps the G5 processor cool and the overall operating noise quieter than a whisper. All of this out of the box for a little over $1800. Price something comparable out in the Wintel world and let me know what you come up with. Oh, and don't forget to add the Firewire ports - 2 of them come with my iMac and are supported natively in OS X, along with the 5 USB ports. To go a step further Mac OS X includes USB and FireWire class drivers for connecting audio and MIDI devices to your Macintosh. Mac OS X will automagically recognize many devices — those that comply with the industry standard specification for MIDI and audio devices — when you plug them in. You don’t have to install extra software to use them. There's no pricing that into your Wintel build because it's simply not available. There's also the new headphone jack that’s also a mini-optical plug. So you can watch DVDs and listen to them in 5.1 surround sound.

If you aren't big on the display and you already have a monitor, you could just spring for a 1.8 GHz G5 PowerMac tower at less than $1400. This guy holds 4GB of RAM, which is of obvious value to audio pros.

You simply cannot purchase anything comparable to the G5 in the wintel world for less. Check these specs out to get an idea of how far ahead the G5 is... www.barefeats.com/pentium4.html

If you're on a budget you can get a 1.2Ghz G4 iBook for less than $1000 or if portability isn't a concern, you can get a 1.25Ghz G4 eMac for under $800. G4 is plenty of power for most audio projects. You'll find that there are still quite a few of them running in pro studios.

Someone mentioned software availability. Not only does the Mac ship with Garageband out of the box, but Apple now owns Logic, which makes full use of Core Audio. Garageband is quite nice in and of itself. Built upon Logic's base code, Garageband is great for beginning home-recording enthusiasts and works well as a scratch pad for more advanced users. The industry standard Pro Tools is more than available for the Mac. Cakewalk, Reason, etc. What isn't available?

All this ranting and I forgot to mention that the iMac G5 is great for home studio use. It's plenty fast, plenty compatible and quiet as a mouse. I would definitely recommend it if you don't have the $$$ to spend on the powermac tower.

Jack of all trades master of ___
Member
Since: May 28, 2004

Oct 21, 2004 03:03 pm

The last post is as if we've never heard of a Mac here at HRC...

A bunch of tech headed individuals in this community who constantly read up on the technologies of multimedia devices, software and techniques, yet its as if the Mac is the second coming of the wheel...

Typed that long-*** post after a strings been dead a week and a half and never got the point that in the end it's strictly USER PREFERENCE...

I think for my next post I am going to do a 1/2 hour infomercial on why Adobe Auditoin outranges Cubase, then name it "My Inferiority Complex"...

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Oct 21, 2004 03:05 pm

I knew when I read the email of this post it was from you dude.

Easy there big fella...

All his points are as invalid and old as anyone elses points that PC is better than Mac, it's moot...6 of one, half-dozen of the other...

Jack of all trades master of ___
Member
Since: May 28, 2004

Oct 21, 2004 03:20 pm

QUOTE: "I knew when I read the email of this post it was from you dude."

You mean my reply?...How did you know?

I am ok dB...I will never get out of line here.
That's as bad as it would get.


Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Oct 21, 2004 03:25 pm

I dunno, I could just tell by the tone of the post...

Jack of all trades master of ___
Member
Since: May 28, 2004

Oct 21, 2004 03:28 pm

Great...I dunno if thats good or bad

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Oct 21, 2004 03:28 pm

It is what it is.

There's a few members I can tell from posts, Walt is another one that easy to tell :)

Jack of all trades master of ___
Member
Since: May 28, 2004

Oct 21, 2004 03:36 pm

Must have been that post between me, Walt and a few others about upper management...

I don't get worked up...it's just fun sometimes to go "Carlin" on the bit




Member
Since: Oct 21, 2004

Oct 21, 2004 03:58 pm

Sure...it's absolutely all about user preference. The original poster was asking about the iMac G5 and it's studio application. Aside from my ranting I was pretty much just trying to give him a solid answer. Didn't mean to offend. If you like working with PCs and are able to make the music you like, the way you want it well then that's great. It's nice to have a choice, is it not? Not attacking PC users here, just ranting Mac. Carry on.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Oct 21, 2004 03:59 pm

Please Note Sarcasm:
Macs suck, you suck, everything Apple sucks and Windows rules

Welcome to HRC, cyclonus5150 :)

Jack of all trades master of ___
Member
Since: May 28, 2004

Oct 21, 2004 04:26 pm

Wintel Empire will one day rule the Mac underworld.

Mmwa-hahahahaha...

jk....

Yeah, what dB said...'Welcome'

Hello!
Member
Since: Jan 12, 2004

Oct 21, 2004 05:08 pm

Hey

This is one helluva thread for PC v MAC debate which, if were all honest is never right or wrong.

The thing here is, I thinks dB or someone else pointed oot - whats good for ya is cool. Tech specs, debate on both side is good - but there is little point in sayin one is better than the other. Both different with plus and minus points.

I for one, use the PC. I cannot afford the prices of the mac. Its more expensive and for what I need a PC does just fine. I dont think the results I get are poor (tho some of my mixing etc could be better but thats another matter).

Anyways, the point is - there is no right or wrong (unless its ME in which case I am ALWAYS right mwwwhahahahahaha! Wee joke there dudes).

Id actually like to go back to the auld Atari ST1024 and see what that could do in its day! he!

Coco.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Oct 21, 2004 11:57 pm

Now I gotta go find the link to the piece I just read regarding the new P4 C2 hyperthreading thing. It showed an imense gain over the G5 in certain areas, audio being one of them.

Now it didnt include video though, so dont jump me on that. I kinda cast it aside and didnt think much about it till now.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Oct 22, 2004 12:10 am

coco, the Atari is no laughing matter. I know several guys who still use them as their main sequancers locked to analog tape machines.

I cut my teeth using Cakewalks very first ever sequancer on an Atari 1040ST. Then I bought a second and it all snowballed from there.

Hello!
Member
Since: Jan 12, 2004

Oct 22, 2004 07:29 am

I was being serious Noize - I really WOULD like to try an auld Atari and see what its like. I saw em on Ebay for next to nothing WITH all the gear included and software etc.

Just for curiosity as they aren't too expensive now. I mind playing games on one of those things when I was a kid - lovin it I was!

Aye, tis true tho - good hardware stands up a long time. I think tho, its fair to say everything has a life expectenancy but hell, as I said before, if it works for ya - why change! My motto "If it aint broken - dont fix it" (Especially if you are married as inveriably, the wife will find a fault in your fix :-) !!!

Anyways, I think the main point we have here is there is NO definitive system for audio, video, games, anything - everything is relative and has its own merits/plus/minus points. I guess there is an old snobbery towards MACS which still exists, much the same as the snobbery towards Pro-Tools (I dont wanna start that debate again) but I guess the message here is whats best is whats best for you personally. Period.

OK, Im jumpin off this thread now....could be a long ride!

All the best

Coco.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Oct 22, 2004 11:17 pm

OK, I will take ya seriously then coco. I think I still have the original install disc's from Cakewalk for the Atari sequancer. I think is was like 6 or seven discs to get it all in. And it scarfed up a big load of the tiny hard disc those things had.

I know I played games on the 1024 but I removed all those from the 1040 to make room for the cakewalk stuff.

We should start and Atari worldwide recording club, and bring them back into popularity.

Stable little beasts they were for sure. Never ever crashed or hiccuped, never skipped a beat as it were.

I'm back bitches!!!
Member
Since: May 27, 2004

Oct 29, 2004 11:21 am

Anybody who thinks that they are gaining anything by getting a 64 bit MAC and/or PC, is misinformed. Applications these days are mostly 32bit and are not affected by a 64 bit processor. In the future, 64 bit will become the standard and plenty of Apps will become available, but that is not the case today so just saying a MAC G% is 64 bit, therefore its better for audio, is not a valid statement.

-By the way, I want a MAC badly anyway.

Hello!
Member
Since: Jan 12, 2004

Oct 31, 2004 09:18 am

Hey Noize

Funny we should talk aboot this, CHECK This oot!!

cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISA...769953&rd=1

Now, I might be tempted for some research!!

Cheers

Coco.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Oct 31, 2004 10:04 pm

I was looking at that exact same one after we had the little caht in the thread here.

He had a boat load of goodies that went along with it as well. I wish he woulda been on this side o the ocean. I would have been biddin on it fer sure.

Hello!
Member
Since: Jan 12, 2004

Nov 01, 2004 06:59 am

I have the same problem with the Musicians Friend!! I Could be savin me a fortune...mainly due to the exchange rate of the £ v $ but also cause you guys seem to get better prices.

Still...such is life.

Aye, the guy had boat loads of goodies as you say...could be fun!

Coco.

> > > iMac G5, good for home recording?...

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