phasing out

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Member Since: Jan 18, 2003

i'm working on a song and i'm trying to layer a lot of stuff. this song when it's done will take me into new territory in terms of number of sounds. and...

one of the things i'm trying here is to get some complex sounds through doubling up and running the second signal through effects. for example i have a lead line that i used an orchestral brass patch for and i'm keeping one copy clean, running another through distortion, and a third through a chain of effects. they're identical clips, though, and i need to know if i could be cancelling out sound by having them exactly lined up, or do i need to offset them slightly? i also want to fatten up my drums, so i'm running a duplicate copy of the complete drum track thorough some compressors and other mangling effects and trying to sit them beneath the untouched track (which will be at a slightly higher volume.) i've heard about a "new york compression trick" where something similar is done--you just heavily compress a duplicate drum track and hide it under the normal one. but wouldnt this result in some waves canceling out? with compression alone probably not, but here's my question: as soon as you start really changing the sound by adding chorus or reverb or other strange things, do the waves start to cancel? i guess that's my general question, since i am trying a heck of a lot of tactics here.

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Chief Cook and Bottle Washer
Member
Since: May 10, 2002


Aug 11, 2004 11:25 am

Forty,

Best advice I can give is to listen to the "total" effect, and preceive it as just that an effect. Most all effects to include software routines will alter the timing of the signals which is the definition of changing phase relationships. It is statisticly very..very..rare that signals will line up exactly 180 degrees out of phase and cause cancelation. Degrees of cancelation can occur but are most often preceived as a distortion. It has been my experience that to try to adjust timing of tracks to compensate for phase relationships is futile. Better to use the adjustments of the effects used to achieve an overall desired sound. If you do preceive significient loss of any frequency range you can always test a phase reversal to see if the results are any better or worse.

Member
Since: Jan 18, 2003


Aug 11, 2004 02:05 pm

well, ok. thanks walt. i figured as much. it just--for some reason i cant put my finger on--feels like a possibly bad idea to be using three duplicate tracks. i guess it's because i've had so much trouble separating things in the past that i fear now that i just might be making it harder for myself. i'll let my ear be the judge. until my ear gets bored and gives up and says 'thats good enough,' which always happens.


Chief Cook and Bottle Washer
Member
Since: May 10, 2002


Aug 11, 2004 03:07 pm

For you and me both! It's amazing to me how much work listening can be. I can only listen so long then I need a break. So the song lingers undone. Eventually I give up and say...Done! Move on! Enough! Gotta love it!

Member
Since: Jul 02, 2003


Aug 11, 2004 10:54 pm

Forty, what I've found far more effective than moving clips in time or using straight delays, when using the copy/paste method with tracks is to use a detuning effect, which better simulates the tracks being different takes.

Dan

Member
Since: Jan 18, 2003


Aug 12, 2004 03:01 am

i'll keep that in mind for sure. thanks

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