sync problem
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Posted on Jul 22, 2004 05:02 am
stuart
Member Since: Apr 06, 2004
is there a bit of kit i can buy that will allow me to sync up all of my tracks without having to start recording on a pc?
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Jul 22, 2004 05:22 am Isn't this the same thing you asked yesterday? The only way you will find out is to read the manual of the BR-8 (If I recall that what you use) and see if it has quantizing functions.
stuartMember
Since: Apr 06, 2004
Jul 22, 2004 05:38 am it is the same question as i asked yesterday, and i'm only asking it again because it wasn't answered. the br-8 doesn't have a quantizing function
Jul 22, 2004 05:45 am Well, if your recording unit doesn't quantize, then it appears you are probably up against very limited options.
Why are you track out of sync in the first place? Most of the digital multitrack recorders don't really have a latency issue, or not one that isn't compensated for very well.
HuePinnipedal Czar (: 3= Member
Since: Apr 11, 2004
Jul 22, 2004 06:21 am No quantize on the br8 ? hmmm ? Doesn't it have a rhythm/metragnome thingy on it ? I thought those did . Midi in, and out ?
stuartMember
Since: Apr 06, 2004
Jul 22, 2004 06:26 am my tracks are out of sync because i'm a human and not a machine and my timing isn't perfect. the BR-8 does have a rhythm/metragnome(!) on it, but that doesn't help when i'm laying down a guitar part as it wont let me record and then quantize. i have to be spot on when i'm playing
HuePinnipedal Czar (: 3= Member
Since: Apr 11, 2004
Jul 22, 2004 06:37 am OH, now I understand . I thought you were refering to linking your key's tracks with the br8 .
No, no, no... y'a got'ta play on time man . There are ways via a computer to fix those off-time gliches, but even with that said, it's just better to be able to play, and count, and be in tune, etc... Otherwise you spend all your time fixing stuff, instead of recording . Spot on !
stuartMember
Since: Apr 06, 2004
Jul 22, 2004 06:49 am so, there isn't a bit of kit i can buy to help me then?
Jul 22, 2004 06:52 am OH, ok, it's not a "sync" issue in the unit itself, but a personal timing issue. Big difference. Nope, no bit of kit to help with that, it's not even that easy on a PC without being noticable, you have to play in time, or use MIDI and sequence the parts electronically via MIDI sounds.
A PC still only can record what you are playing, while you have more user-friendly editing options, ultimately, you still only have what you record to work with, and what you record is what you play, in time or not.
HuePinnipedal Czar (: 3= Member
Since: Apr 11, 2004
Jul 22, 2004 06:55 am By the way, being human doesn't wreck your timing . My timing is wrecked by things like alcohol, bad drummers, and synchopated (sp)vocals, but I don't blame my humanity . heh heh
Jul 22, 2004 07:09 am I bought me a drummer for £100..he's called ZoomRT123 and man is he in time!!! :-)
He doesnt steal ma beer, burp in public very loudly, can count past 4 and is very very in time!
PS - this was just a wee joke. I cannot play drums to save myself so dont really have place to slag off drummers...just a wee joke!! No offence to all the drummers out there on HRC.
Coco.
Jul 22, 2004 07:13 am My drummers name is "Velocity" and that bit o' kit comes with the Cakewalk Project5 bundle of VST's. Plays well, easily editable, in time, if I don't like the sound of a drum I can change it at will...'tis a beautiful thang.
stuartMember
Since: Apr 06, 2004
Jul 22, 2004 07:17 am i'm not well out of time guys. i'm only talking about the difference between excellent and brilliant. i wouldn't have thought that if this wasn't an issue then why did somebody bother to invent the quantize thing for drum machines?
stuartMember
Since: Apr 06, 2004
Jul 22, 2004 07:18 am hey Coco. i'm from wales by the the way. where did you get your flag thing from?
Jul 22, 2004 07:20 am I may be wrong, but I thought quantize was invented to deliberately make mistakes!!
This is to give a natural feel and less mechanical sound, usually provided by machines.
The quantize level sets how far "off" the machine is and from this, you get the sound of a typical drummer - missed notes, different beats, strength alterations etc - I am sure its for a more human feel.
Correct me if I am wrong tho as I'm nae expert...
Coco.
Jul 22, 2004 07:21 am Aye, I stole the flag from a mate!!!
He uses it on a fitba website here in Scotland so I dunno where he got it.
But - tis cool for sure...
Good luck with yer timing issue here by the way.
Coco.
Jul 22, 2004 07:23 am The quantize thing is generally a MIDI only feature (tho people have been using it with audio a little lately). Because with MIDI each note is a seperate bit of data with several paramters to indicate what to play and how to play it. That is easy to work with. Digital AUDIO, such as a real guitar being recorded, is one chunk of data that contains the whole recording...MUCH different thing in the eyes of a processor.
HuePinnipedal Czar (: 3= Member
Since: Apr 11, 2004
Jul 22, 2004 07:35 am I always thought the quantize was for fixing, slightly-off input of midi stuff ? At least that's what I do with it .
Jul 22, 2004 07:38 am It is...er that was the original intent anyway. Personally, I like turning off snap and having a beat or note occassionally milleseconds out of time to add a little human-ness to it.
HuePinnipedal Czar (: 3= Member
Since: Apr 11, 2004
Jul 22, 2004 07:42 am OH the humanity ! :)
TheTincanbugsloppy dice, drinks twiceMember
Since: Aug 05, 2003
Jul 22, 2004 07:42 am Coco, I think you're thinking of the "humanize" feature on some drum machines... "quantize", is in effect the exact opposite.
Jul 22, 2004 07:44 am Yeah, "Miracle Beats" from PowerFX has that humanize feature, very cool indeed.
HuePinnipedal Czar (: 3= Member
Since: Apr 11, 2004
Jul 22, 2004 07:45 am Yeah, there's that Alesis model with "random articulation" .
stuartMember
Since: Apr 06, 2004
Jul 22, 2004 07:53 am so what i need to do is get a pc then? anybody recomend any good programs and soundcards?
Jul 22, 2004 07:56 am dig thru the forum and the gear bag section. The gear bag has tons of gear, many with reviews from users and the forum has discussed this topic at length MANY, MANY times.
However, as I said before, a PC won't help you play in time any better tho.
stuartMember
Since: Apr 06, 2004
Jul 22, 2004 07:58 am as i said before, my timing isn't that off. i was just wondering if there was a bit of kit that would put everything bang on the beat
HuePinnipedal Czar (: 3= Member
Since: Apr 11, 2004
Jul 22, 2004 08:13 am Not for audio, sorry .
Jul 22, 2004 08:17 am Well, there are tools (look for the upcoming review of "BeatQuantizer", for example) that are a step in that direction, but it's far from a perfect science yet when it comes to audio.
stuartMember
Since: Apr 06, 2004
Jul 22, 2004 08:33 am thanks Hue. just the answer i needed instead of all the back and forth questioning and repeating of the same question
HuePinnipedal Czar (: 3= Member
Since: Apr 11, 2004
Jul 22, 2004 08:43 am It was just the way you worded it that confused me at first . I'll tell y'a, playing a hand drum really helped my guitar-playing-timing alot, might be a persuit to help y'a... fun stuff, too ! Peace .
Jul 22, 2004 08:45 am me too, "sync" and "playing off time" are to VERY different things from an engineers viewpoint :)
Jul 22, 2004 09:55 am Aye..when I refered to the quantize being used for making the notes more human - I had meant less quantization - sorry folks. Not to great at explaining these things I know little off.
I just remembered reading an article saying "turn the quantize off" and put in some random notes and got a little mixed up!!
Tincan - thats the very felly - HUMANIZE! Thats what I had really meant but didny really know the term!!
Anyway...whatever you dae in the end. Gid luck. PS - Getting a PC will not necessarily answer the problem and if you introduce the latency problem in the equation, it could potentially make it worse!!
Anyways...gid luck
Coco.
Jul 23, 2004 01:23 am My drummers name is DR770 He's always on time and can play for hours without getting distracted, needing a beer, leaving for 5min for a cigarette break, or just not showing up at all. Yes DR-770 is the sexiest drummer I know. He's sitting there in the dark right now just waiting for me to turn him on.
guitwizzNothing doesnt give me gasMember
Since: May 25, 2004
Jul 23, 2004 02:59 am His name sounds like an inmate I.D. though.... Name the poor guy something else....... Larry, maybe?? Mortimer??
guitwizzNothing doesnt give me gasMember
Since: May 25, 2004
Jul 23, 2004 03:08 am waddaya mean by playing being off time? Are you triggering the thing? Using pads or something??
Its a drum machine, use it, learn it, get a "bit of a brain"!!!!!! heheheheheh
I dont get it.........
Jul 23, 2004 03:18 am I could name him Roland.
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Jul 23, 2004 11:01 am It seems the difficulty lies in that Stuart didn't give much information along with the question. There's such a large number of drumming possibilities available to home recorders, that we can't know what you're using, wanting, having problems with, etc. until we get a good idea of what you're working with.
I'm starting to call my drummer fruity (as in loops).
[quote]
leaving for 5min for a cigarette break, or just not showing up at all[/quote]
ain't that the truth, the gents I'm trying to record have smoke breaks every 20min, and last night they didn't even show up!
chex81CheeseMember
Since: Jul 21, 2004
Jul 23, 2004 11:12 am Being a drummer for 10 years, I have been through Fruity loops for 4 years and used a bunch of drum machines.
The problems with Fruity and Machines is that they limit your possiblities more than you'd think. They sound incredible (studio quality), but the limitations always stood out too much for me. It made me VERY nervous.
Personally, if there had to be a choice between the two...Fruity loops is the way to go. I personally feel that way.
But for this new album I'm recording, I will be going into the studio for a day and laying down my tracks myself. And I compose electronic music...real drums even sound better than electronic drums for Techno/Electronic music. It gives a Raw feel to the music.
Machine drums (programs/drum machines) just sound too Robotic. But not everyone can afford them, or play them right?...thats the difference.
my 2 cents.