Playing Live With Backing/Drum Machine
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Posted on Jul 21, 2004 07:02 am
cocofromscotland
Hello!
Member Since: Jan 12, 2004
OK Folks
Most folks on here will have heard the music I have made at some point or another. Its all in the profile..
What I am aiming to do here is maybe go out and take some of this to the masses LIVE...
I am thinking about how best to do this cause I've never done the "solo guy" thing. Always been in bands and its always ended up (at one point or another in the life of the band) in problems...bands!
So, my questions (I aint new to playing live at all but as I say, never done the solo thang):
1. If I have a nice backline i.e. a decent pa and possibly an engineer, can I use my tracks I have just now, mixed in a different way using a CD? i.e. have the drums, bass and piano playing as a backing track whilst I sing/play guitar live.
2. How tricky would it be to build on the first reqmnt, and add a rhythm gtr for the solos (so I can play rhythm and sing, play the solo then go back to the rhythm and sing to finish?)
3. Do you think it will sound totally naff?? I had planned on making "live versions" of all my tracks (I may even re-record some) so they have the drums, bass and piano (and possibly rtyhtm gtr) more upfront with no vocals (these will off course be live)>
4. Has anybody tried this at all and how did it go for ya?
5. Please dont ask - why bother!! I know its not the whole live band thing, but its still myself playing all the instruments, writing the music and doing it all myself. Its just, I only have 2 arms, hands, legs and 1 mouth! Alas, I canny dae it all at once so need some form of backing!
6. Last question, I promise: If I should need to compromise (assuming the above is not possible or peeps think it would be really naff) - how well do you think the drum machine with bass lines (which I'd need to program) and 1 live guitar/vocal would come across. This would mean no pianos/backin gtrs and the bass on the drum machine is not the best?
OK..A bit of a monsterous post I know but if anyone can input to this - I'd be most greatful.
Ultimately, I would love to do this myself just so I know I CAN DO IT! I've never gone "solo" properly before so I'd love to try and see how it comes off.
The alternative to the above is an expensive laptop, operated by a decent engineer, using a mix in something like Cubase which AINT gonna happen!!
Cheers folks.....
Coco.
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HuePinnipedal Czar (: 3= Member
Since: Apr 11, 2004
Jul 21, 2004 08:11 am Coco, first off man, you rock and this is a great idea ! It isn't easy, but it gets easier as you stop looking over your shoulder for the crackhead, I mean drummer, to cue-up . I reckon this ...
1- Yes, I saw a guitar/bass duo use a cd for drums and keys to a nice affect .
2- Should be as easy as re-arranging the mix... just got'ta make sure you remember to play the solo, not the rhythm . heh heh
3- 'Naff' ? That's a cool word, but I don't think you could sound like it . Deffinate;y record this stuff, we wanna hear, man !
4- My cowriter and I used a DR770 to back up some songs we did at an outside house party, and it came off awesome... one of the best sounding gigs I've had . Mixed with a hand-drum, and an acoustic guitar, it sounded tight, yet natural .
5- How 'bout "Why not ?", instead ! GO 4 IT !!!
Good luck, and looking forward to the Live From Scotland Album !!!
Jul 21, 2004 08:13 am Coco, do you sound like Groundskeeper Willy from the Simpsons when you speak?
Jul 21, 2004 08:20 am Coco,
What you're talking about is a lot more common than you might think. I have frequently visited local establishments that featured solo entertainers playing guitar and singing along to pre-recorded tracks.
I have done it myself, singing and playing along with backing tracks that I recorded at home. I just put them on a CD and just ran my portable CD player right through the PA system. I ALWAYS had backup CDs and I ALWAYS had an extra portable CD player, because you know that if you don't have backups your main units will crap out on you right in the middle of a screamin' guitar solo!
More recently, I have seen people do it with their MP3 players. I saw a guy do an entire show with nothing but a Strat and an iPod. He rocked!
I personally stay away from drum/bass machine backing. Every song begins to sound the same, plus programming can be tedious. Pre-recorded music gives you great flexibility. You can have different arrangements of the same songs, and use whichever one fits the atmosphere of the venue or gig.
All that being said...there is nothing like climbing onstage and plugging with your buddies and rocking down the house!
Good luck in your solo endeavors!
Jim
HuePinnipedal Czar (: 3= Member
Since: Apr 11, 2004
Jul 21, 2004 08:20 am He does to me...
I like it when people type like I think they sound !
Jul 21, 2004 08:30 am hehehehe - DB - "noooww listen here laaadddiee...ye cannnny sound like wuuulllie and ever be Scottish!" hehehe...its like...mad! I laugh myself when I hear him - its quality!
Aye, I do a bit - but far less exaggerated! But, it gave me a wee laugh thinkin - I have relatives "up north" in the Highlands..they actually sound CLOSE to Groundskeeper Willie!! hehehe...I slag them off myself - local word for them is "Chukters" - aka farmers, etc - even tho they are all really city dwellers, just further up north!
Cheers guys...this is encouraging. I am off to consider a few more questions and I'll be back at ya later. I had considered it may be stale but I suppose if I do it maself, it will be just like times 5 !! Kinda ego trip mania ala Axl Rose in the Dont Cry video! Man, how many times can anyone want to see themselves on a video!
Cheers...
Coco.
HuePinnipedal Czar (: 3= Member
Since: Apr 11, 2004
Jul 21, 2004 08:35 am Jim does have a point about the tediousness of drum machine progin', that is the nasty side of it for sure .
SirrusPrince of Cat EarsMember
Since: Jun 17, 2004
Jul 21, 2004 10:29 am I haven't yet heard your music (though I now have no excuse to not rush over and give it a listen), so I can't offer a whole lot of specific advice on it.
What I can suggest is a little guitar device called the Boomerang that I use. It's a phrase sampler that lets you record up to a minute and a half of straight audio (even layer it if desired) that I've used to great effect myself. I'm not sure how easy it'd be to record a chord progression/riff while singing as I'm not terribly competent at playing while singing - but I'd assume it could be done. It's not a cheap stomp-box, but it's well worth the money spent and has even served me well as the lead/rhythm guitarist in a band. Hope that helps.
TallChapAnswer:On a good day, lipstick.Member
Since: Jun 24, 2004
Jul 21, 2004 12:37 pm My wifey (a Septic) goes all gooey when she hears a Jock speaking...(Did I offend enough people there? Not intended, I assure you). I have a friend from Motherwell. My wife doesn't understand a word, but could listen to him all night. Weird, that......
Anyroadup, when I was back in Blighty (ex-Pat 'Sassenach' living in USA), I had a "band" that never got around to getting a drummer. Instead we had a couple of drum-machines (one we called "Nigel" - we sacked him when "Kevin" came along. A nice Alesis unit). Using a keyboard input for velocity etc. we had the drums programmed in a very natural way. It sounded just like a drummer, but in-time (sorry, couldn't resist). By slightly playing different velocities on various beats, and occasionally throwing a snare-beat slightly off time (very slightly), it had a more natural feel to it. Helps with your own timing too. You get used to playing totally in-time. If you get the programming right, it doesn't sound tedious or "samey." Plus, you'll actually get to drink the beers on the rider.
When we added live bass, guitars, and vocals there was a lovely sound (IMHO).
Go for it, old chap - with re-mixed CD's. Just think, you could do multiple-part solos, counter melodies etc. Might want to consider a foot-pedal to stop/start the CD player in between songs.
Have fun, break a leg. Maybe I can find you gigging next time I'm in Edinburgh.
Jul 21, 2004 12:58 pm Cheers guys...
Aye - basically Im a one man band as it is! So all my stuff is recorded live essentially, just tracked seperately.
I program my wee drum machine. Record it (using pleanty phrases and fills). Then add bass, guitars and vox. Any samples (only done on 1 song) are added last and voila...one song done ready for mixing/mastering.
Thats how all my stuffs been done.
Sorry Jim, I dont think I'd made that too clear but what I meant was to use the same drums I have on all my songs for my live gigs. BUT - burnt to CD or a mini disc or something.
Essentially, what I had hoped to do was cheat a little! Just take off the vox and any appropriate guitars from the songs I have just now. Then burn a new, more upfront mix with different panning and use this as the backing....
I just thought it may sound a bit dull. However, as you say - I would be playing ma guitar live and singing live, I'd just be having drums/bass/poss bits of gtr rhythm as backing via a disc or mini disc (or maybe even IPOD if I can get ma hands on one!!).
Tall Chap - aye - the auld Jock doesny bother me - nae offence taken. I canny see why folk get uptight aboot it..its like Taffy - its only related to the river taff...now, if we were using more colourful language - thats different but too many folk are way too sensitive! NO ME!! Your wife is obviously very wise..falling for the charms!!! Motherwell isny a bad wee place - but alas, the good folk of Edinburgh are top :-)
Aye, so for ma thinking - this COULD work! How aboot the final mix? Panning? When I mix a song for the "album" I making, its seperated and nice and tidy. For a PA - would this be any different???
Also, I've had some negative comments fi folk I have discussed this with..along the lines of - "fake" - "karaeoke" - "no real" but the same folk think using a computer is a mortal sin..ejits. I canny see the difference between a guy with a solo accoustic standing singing and being called "solo" and a guy with full electric and HIMSELF playing his own tunes, singing and playing EVERYTHING (albeit some of it prerecorded) it is apparently "fake"!!!
Grrrr!
Coco.
TallChapAnswer:On a good day, lipstick.Member
Since: Jun 24, 2004
Jul 21, 2004 03:07 pm No "faking" going on there, mate. You're good to go.
I should think the panning etc. should be fine as it is, unless you have some real wide pans and the speakers are way far apart; which might sound a bit dodgy unless you have some Pink Floyd songs in the set. The CD will most likely sound better (tighter) than a full band, and much easier to get a good mix on your PA (not having to sit through thirty minutes of "Snare"....."ok, kick...." "let's try the toms..." "can you turn the bass amp down a touch?" - as I recall "soundchecks" are still allowed in the UK - not here...).
Stay with it. Make it your own. Don't listen to the nay-sayers.
Long live the one-man-band!
BTW: I love Ediburgh. I miss the eighty-bob ale....
Jul 21, 2004 03:10 pm nay
Jul 21, 2004 03:20 pm Tall Chap - thats JUST what I wanted to hear - good man!
Aye, I am gonny go for it when the disc is done and enough songs are penned and perfected. Soundchecks should be outlawed EVERYWHERE for drummers and picky lead singers!!
Good man...and the 80 bob is gid stuff...but no as good as the Newkie Broon Ale...finest ale known to man! Would yi believe the bams at Scottish & Newcaslte are gonny shut their plants in EDINBURGH & NEWCASLTE..and brew somewhere else cause its cheaper!
I, for one, will be buying NAE MARE S&N beer - thats for sure! Faither-in-law is right oot a job! Terrible thing...truely terrible - I'll no get nae mare cheap beer for a start!! :-(
Seriously..its a joke.
C'MON THE INDIE BEER MAKERS...INDIE ALL THE WAY FOR COCO!!!
DB - Nay???
Coco
Jul 21, 2004 03:33 pm TallChap said to ignore the nay sayers, I felt obligated, at that point, to say "nay"
Jul 21, 2004 03:37 pm hehehehe...very droll DB :-)!
Still..amusing all the same.
I thought it was more subtle than that - a response to all the "AYE"'s I sling in everywhere!
Ack well...good fun all the same.
At least you haveny turned into some strange hybrid half man-half horse! naaaaaaaayyyyy!
Yeeeehaaa!
Coco.
Jul 21, 2004 04:45 pm I had read aboot a dude playing sell out gigs with just his guitar and a laptop fully loaded with the rest of "the band".
This is a long shot but has anybody else heard of this guy? I had read it in an Edinburgh newspaper and stupidly chucked it!!
if anyone knows of this dude, let me know cause I wanna check out his stuff.
Cheers
Coco.
TallChapAnswer:On a good day, lipstick.Member
Since: Jun 24, 2004
Jul 21, 2004 05:13 pm Ok, here's one for you:
Carter The Unstoppable Sex Machine.
Two blokes with guitars and strange haircuts, plus a computer. Here's a snippet from their website:
"Carter began in 1988, when the much acclaimed if commercially unsuccessful jangle pop band Jamie Wednesday disintegrated. The bands song-writing team, singer/guitarist Jimbob and guitarist Fruitbat found themselves with a charity show at the London Astoria to play and no one left to play with. So they recorded some backing tapes, played the show as a duo, and realised that this arrangement worked rather well."
...realised that this arrangement worked rather well. Hmmmm!
10 year career, number of albums including a No. 1.
Proof that the "nays" don't really have it.
"Ground floor Shopper's Paradise
Habit dashery, needles, spoons, and knives
Knuckle dusters, glass jaws and wooden hearts.."
Jul 21, 2004 05:20 pm Nice one Tall Chap...
Aye - I've seen it done maself. It CAN indeed be done. Gez, half the time when many folk go watch some "big" artists they go watch that one person and couldnae care a toss aboot the session musicians playing with them!! (no me - I like to watch the guitarist - always - but many folks do).
I think, I mainly wanted the opinions of folk on here, like yourself, who's opinion actually MATTERS..rather than the usual fools who like to knock people's ideas cause they're too dumb/lazy/untalented to do owt but moan and slag others.
Alas, the folks on here come thru every time. Hoever, I respect the honest opinions gained on here EVERY Time - whilst nobody is uncessarily off hand, quite the opposite, everyone seems to tell it how it is and thats what ya need..in the most contstructive manner possible.
So, I thinks, when the CD is done and I have around 15 songs (inc covers), I'll hit the breeze and book some gigs. ROCK ON...
Coco.
P.S. I added a wee picture of ma old band on ma profile..playing Princess St Gardens in the shadow of the castle..it reminded me of the buzz of playing live and whet ma appetite..a good kick up the butt to get this CD done too!!
Jul 21, 2004 05:26 pm Ya Coco, I have heard of a few "laptop rock" musician's. The best story I heard of coming from one of those shows is a friend that told me some dude in the crowd suddenly shouted out "Press CTRL > S for SUCKS!" :-D
Jul 21, 2004 06:57 pm There will be some that do suck! Probs none so much as one of the "real" bands I was in tho!
Man, I mind our drummer being so bad, the buses in the street kept better times than him! Gez..
Funny wee story that DB! Still, I take the Sid Vicious approach to those kind off smartasses! I have a big guitar and I AINT affraid to use it :-D
Cheers
Coco
