Jun 17, 2004 09:42 am doubtful, those can be forged pretty easily by just setting your system time.
Copyright issues and time/date stamp on recorded files
Posted on Jun 17, 2004 09:40 am
TheTincanbug
sloppy dice, drinks twice
Member Since: Aug 05, 2003
Assume you have a cd with your music burned onto it - such as a master backup of a mix you've worked on. Would the time/date stamps of the audio files on the cd hold any weight in court in proving that you were the original songwriter?
[ Back to Top ]
Jun 17, 2004 09:42 am doubtful, those can be forged pretty easily by just setting your system time.
Jun 17, 2004 09:52 am Makes sense - how about if the cd with the files is in a sealed and stamped envelope that you sent to yourself through the mail?
Jun 17, 2004 09:54 am Thats acceptable, as a mail stamp with time and date on the stamp is actual worth something...
Jun 17, 2004 10:00 am I heard in my music business class back in college that the sealed envelope trick doesn't really hold any weight in courts, and that a good lawyer can punch through that defense. I just wonder if a sealed/stamped envelope mailed to yourself with copies of the original files inside would be more effective.
Jun 17, 2004 10:02 am I dunno, I've only done the Library of Congress for $20 route myself and never had to defend it, but I do know that Waldo from NWR has seen the sealed envelope trick work on numerous occassions.
Jun 17, 2004 10:07 am Can you copyright multiple submissions under one fee? I was always unclear about that.
Hey Waldo, if you're reading this, can you back that up? I'm really interested to know. Thanks.
Jun 17, 2004 10:16 am Yes, you can copyright an entire work (CD).
Here's the thread where Waldo said he has personally seen it work...over 200 times...
www.homerecordingconnecti...d=1653&frm3
Jun 17, 2004 10:23 am For the benefit of other readers, I'm posting the most informative bit of that conversation below...
TheRealWaldo, Mar 07, 2003:
"I am in the industry, and have sat in on many cases, as I have said.
A poor mans copyright should be extended BEYOND just a SASE. It's a common mistake many make.
Once it is mailed to yourself, place it in a safety deposit box at a reputable banking institution. Each entry into that safety deposit box is recorded, and you can have a bank manager sign to say you only placed objects into it, and did not remove any. When it comes time to make your case, you get an official letter from the bank manager, with a COPY of the material in the box (DO NOT TAKE IT OUT OF THE BOX UNLESS THE COURT REQUESTS IT).
With the multiple layers of 'evidence' that the content was yours, it cannot be contested unless the defendant of your claim can provide equivalent evidence to the contrary.
Generally, most claims go to 'small claims' court, unless a person has benefited immensely from your works (i.e., Metallica rips you off). You won't win any major money, but the offending party is at risk of further penalty if they continue to infringe (including jail time in extreme cases).
If you sue one person for infringement successfully, generally, no-one else will touch your works (for at least a while)."
and then I also found this statement to be of great interest....
Walt:
"The only people I hear talk about the poor mans approach do just that....talk about it. They are the folks that are always "gonna" do it. The people that I know that "do it" fill out the forms, register, you know follow the steps. The poor mans approach is kinda like a quaint little conversation to be had mid way through a bar sitting somewhere between coherent and uncoherent. Most end up in some drunken rant about government, big brother, I remember when I outran the cops etc."
Jun 17, 2004 10:24 am and by the way, thank you for providing that link dB!
Jun 17, 2004 10:27 am Myself, as much as I do believe Waldo and respect his experience, when my little EP project is done I will again file with the Library of Congress, cuz, well it's $20...ain't that much.
However, I have through the years mailed and copyrighted everything I have individually (such as my random songs here at HRC) until it's ready for a final product and REAL copyright.
Jun 17, 2004 11:27 am I remember that thread. Wonder if the law holds different up in Canada (where Waldo's from). If you're gonna go through the trouble of a safe deposit box, geez, might as well just get an official copyright.
Jun 17, 2004 11:49 am Yeah coolo, that's what I'm thinking too... Might as well throw money at the solution that's ironclad.
Jun 17, 2004 11:53 am Ironclad?
hahahahahahahahahahahah...ohhhhh...hahahahahah
oh, stop, please, argh, no milk squirted out my nose....argh...sides...ache...
seriously, nothing is EVER ironclad...
Jun 17, 2004 02:09 pm True - but in the eyes of the American legal system, there doesn't seem to be any surer guarantee of your intellectual property rights. But yeah, it's a legal system, not a justice system, so if someone can punch a hole in the "ironclad" defense... well, then they either own your stuff or the right to do with it what they will. I'm not saying that the copyright system is perfect, but it does its job most of the time.
Jun 17, 2004 11:01 pm I guess if I were to be serious about the whole thing, I would put a copy in an envelope and send it to myself registered mail, then go file for copyright. Kinda like dual insurance. Demonstrating effort goes a long way in court. So does working with the legal system rather than trying to bypass it. Obviously there is no gurantee that some silver tounged lawyer backed with mega resources won't rip you off. All you can do is try.
Jun 18, 2004 12:33 am Important: US law will protect your copyright if you can prove without a doubt that you hold the rights, but you are NOT entitled to monetary return (legal expenses, portion of profits from infringing gain, or otherwise) unless you register with the US copyright office.
Fair? I don't think so, but that's the rule.
---- The information posted above was mostly in response to a 'poor mans copyright doesn't work' post. I didn't state, and never will, that it's better than registration, or whatever is the suggestion of your countries legal system. It is, however, better than nothing at all.
W.
Jun 18, 2004 06:29 am Here Here...
And for the amatuer theif who simply knicks yer stuff and thinks he's got away with it..
Threatening him with a lawyer stating you registered your songs via postal service and they're held at lawyer/bank often will work.
It wont stop a serious theif, but the amatuer thief may be put off.
All my songs are in the lawyers office, sealed, registered post with cd/tape/lyric sheets...all stating date etc.
Coco.
|
Related Forum Topics: |
If you would like to participate in the forum discussions, feel free to register for your free membership.