Jun 07, 2004 08:05 am im no drummer, so im not gonna be much help, but remember the phrase : 'often the impossible is the untried'.
what kinda things you into? im always after drummers to work with...
New way of miking drums...Does this work????
Posted on Jun 07, 2004 08:00 am
moorefamily2
Member Since: Jun 06, 2004
Sup guys and gals!
First of all I want to say that I discovered this message board last night. I stayed up late and got up early just to read posts. You guys rock! Anywho, here's my lame-brain idea:
I'm a drummer that's getting ready to start a home studio. After working in about a half a dozen different studios facing many obstacles dealing with recording acoustic drums, I think that I have come up with a new (or old) way of recording drums. Here's what I'm thinking.
Ok, you know how you can cut a hole in your front kick-drum head, stick a mic inside and pick up signal from both heads? Well, why not do the same with the toms? I'm thinking if you cut a hole in the bottom heads of your toms (using either "holz" or some other template) you would be able to mic from the inside while still getting the sound of both heads. This would eliminate having to get those crazy expensive MAY Internal Miking system. I thought by doing this it would also isolate the tom mics and reduce bleed over from the other toms and cymbals. What do you all think? Ever done this before? I know in the 70's, they used to have single-head drums and would mike from the underside, but why not do this with a double headed toms. I know that this would not work for the snare. I just want to know what ya'll think.
God Bless,
Martin in NC
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Jun 07, 2004 08:05 am im no drummer, so im not gonna be much help, but remember the phrase : 'often the impossible is the untried'.
what kinda things you into? im always after drummers to work with...
Jun 07, 2004 08:05 am Welcome to HRC.
Your idea look good in theory, the only problem I see is that my personal experience with toms is that with a hole in the bottom head, or worse no head at all, they tend to be very loud and don't really hold their tuning the same.
if I was you I guess I'd go buy some really cheap bottom heads to do it with before committing any real money to it...
Jun 07, 2004 08:35 am To flame:
I'm working right now with a small label out of charlotte, nc. www.baifam.com
I stay mainly inside the realm of christian music. I know that this can mean a million different things these days. I play drums at my church every other Sunday and I look to start recording people ASAP. I'm probably going to post today asking how much people charge for studio time. I want to start a business doing this on the weekends for fun and some extra cash.
To dB:
I have a set of Pork Pie drums (www.porkpiedrums.com), so I'm really not worried about their tuning going out, but then again I've never done this before, so we'll see how it goes. Thanks a lot for your suggestion though! I'm thinking that tuning may not be a problem if the hole is cut directly in the center of the head. Who knows, it may not work, but it'll be great if it does!
Jun 07, 2004 08:37 am Yeah, if it does work it'll rock, thats for sure.
Jun 07, 2004 08:43 am I can't afford new heads right now and my recorder hasn't come in yet. I'll let everyone know how it goes. I love acoustic drums and I want to learn the best way for me to record them. Also, if I have a set of pork pie's set up in my studio, I'm hoping that this will attract more business in the long run. Most people around here are rockin' the cheaper drum kits (e.g. exports, rockstars, swingstars, etc.). I know that cheap drums can sound decent recorded. I recorded with a set of Tama Rockstars for 6 or 7 years and always managed to get at least a decent sound out of them. Can't wait to see how my "pie's" sound!
Jun 07, 2004 10:02 am you know pork pies may still go out of tune very easily. when you cut a hole in the back of the tom, it will affect how much the stick is reflected when you hit it. that can mess people up sometimes who are used to heavy rebound. best bet is to mic the toms from above where the people won't hit the microphone.
when it comes to throwing a jillion microphones on a drumset, you end up getting into phase issues most of all. when you have two microphones within around 9 inches of each other, the way that their signals combine affects their frequency response. this messes up the EQ big time, and it can be used constructively if you know exactly how to use it. however, your best bet is to be fairly minimalist when it comes to mic'ing drums.
there is a lot to learn about mic'ing and mixing drums (not to mention other instruments!), good luck with it and i hope your experiences are positive.
Jun 07, 2004 11:22 am Pork Pies are sweet!! My drummer wants them and I rather just eat them! ;)
Hey Martin, you from Charlotte?? I live in hick-town named Star in Montogomery County, NC. You wouldn't happen to play for Morning Star do you?
Jun 07, 2004 01:55 pm I've never heard of Star and I've barely heard of Montogomery County in NC. I actually live in the mtns. of NC, close to boone. I don't play for Morning Star; I play for a small baptist church up here. However, I do go to Charlotte from time to time to either go to Guitar Center or to record (if not both). What part of the state are you in?
Jun 07, 2004 02:16 pm I'm about an hour and a half north of Charlotte
Jun 07, 2004 02:41 pm I prefer the sound of a tom from above the top head, but from within can be cool too.
Jun 08, 2004 12:29 am Moonfamily,
One question. Do you like the sound of your drums as they are when you play them? If so don't go cutting holes in them and change their sound. If you want to cut holes in them to change how they sound; have at it.
Now, once you have the sound you like, to the ear; Then go about capturing the sound. Drums are difficult. Read the articles here on capturing the sound of a kit. Take the time to play with each "voice" in your kit using different approaches and tuning the mics and room. Record yourself alone and with your group and critique yourself for playing technique. I was supprised at how much I had to "grow" when I started realy listening to myself other than while I was playing. Do a search for a post Jues made refering to his drum kit microphone dream list.
Jun 08, 2004 06:47 am A big amen on drums being difficult. I'm about to shoot myself dealing with drums. My buddy has his freakin huge drum set over at my house and I'm micing them with my 2 sets of Audix Fusion 6 drums mics. Geez, if my snare doesn't stop sounding like a tom, I'm going to choke something.
Oh yeah, don't cut any holes in your drums. If you like, say, cut holes on the bottom of your toms, the sustain will be horrible.
Jun 08, 2004 09:50 am cutting holes in the tom resonate heads could be very bad... they take a lot more stress than kick resonates and will probably burst. You could just take them off... though the last set I saw that was designed that way was a friends 20 piece Monster set ...I can't show you a link with a picture because there were only like 300 made... the toms were very very deep and everything was plexiglass (yeah it was made in the 80's)
It would probably be easier (if you're brave enough) to drill some screws into the shell for an internal mount and an extra hole to run cable.. as you can't plug the existing hole with cable or the heads will explode... in anycase it will all probably sound like cardboard anyway :)
If you do cut hols it would have to be very small and in the center because the resonate head is where a lot of the tone comes from... and will actually produce sound before the batter head because the batter is muted by the stick... so ...yeah... umm... crap I lost my train of though... or forgot if there was one...
Jun 08, 2004 10:05 am The coolest thing would be to drill a small hole in the shell just big nough for a ire to go in and mount a mic in the shell...I have seen people tdo that with great results.
Jun 09, 2004 02:27 am try this:
Stereo x-y in front (somewhere) and 2 overheads, (or just one). Maybe even x-y on the overheads if possible, that would be rough, but do-able. You will have good control over the different volume sections of the set, and the panning would be killer, kind of like quadrophonic panning, only 4 mics total.....I have seen live and studio situations where great tracks have been done with ONLY stereo in front of the kit. Providing the set is balanced pretty good towards the source. dont cut the heads up...especially dont put an "ire" in it. I dont think you can even barbecue an ire....... hehehe
Jun 09, 2004 03:09 am Good way for recording toms is to tune them, loosen one bolt of top head and mic as usual with mic on the top. I dont know how they sound with hole in bottom head, but I prefer to avoid putting mics directed upwards, because of phase cancelation with signals from mics directed downwards.
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