Jun 01, 2004 12:12 pm I like bands like the Clash, Bob Marley, Peter Tosh, Sublime, and sometimes Long Beach Dub All-Stars.
Just curious... anyone out there into reggae, ska, rocksteady, or DUB???
Posted on Jun 01, 2004 11:43 am
Albertv05
Dub head
Member Since: May 03, 2004
I'm just curious. Doesn't seem to be by what I've read, but you never know. Oh, when I mean "ska", I don't mean No Doubt ;)
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Jun 01, 2004 12:12 pm I like bands like the Clash, Bob Marley, Peter Tosh, Sublime, and sometimes Long Beach Dub All-Stars.
Jun 01, 2004 12:31 pm I'm a casual reggae listener, it's not my main love. I'm not a huge dub or ska fan, and I don't really know what rock steady is. Actually, when I say reggae, I mean more roots reggae, I really don't care too much for dancehall reggae.
Jun 01, 2004 12:56 pm Quote:
Oh, when I mean "ska", I don't mean No Doubt ;)
lol
i like a bit of bob marley, but i dont know anything about reggae really. scratch perrys a cool producer...
Jun 01, 2004 01:18 pm i just had to review a hepcat album for my part-time job thingy. i'd never listened to rocksteady or roots reggae, but i gave it a good rating, and really got to like 'little miss congeniality.'
Jun 01, 2004 02:51 pm dub side of the moon = awesome
Jun 01, 2004 05:43 pm What do you mean by ska?
I get it... A band's music is not a true part of its genre if it's either popular or enjoyable to listen to.
And heaven forbid anyone should try to alter or improve upon the formula for a type of music slightly. It shouldn't be associated with the same genre anymore, and if it is, then the listener is clearly ignorant!
Jun 02, 2004 01:58 am Hmm, porp, I see where you're coming from, but I think I disagree. It's the same way I feel about Shania Twain and country. It's like taking the root of something that many people feel passionate about, and bastardizing it in such a way that it no longer has the soul or the essense of what preceeded it. This may make it more popular (like the two examples we're working with) or less popular (anticon and hip hop), but it will undoubtedly raise the ire of those who feel attached and relate to the original. Going back to No Doubt, I think they started out as ska, but have gradually moved out of that genre as they have evolved. Shania Twain still has a bit of country in her, but it's a bastardized form of country if you ask me.
Anyhow, I think what Albert was trying to do was find folks with similar tastes in music (those with deeper knowledge of ska beyond No Doubt, whom most everyone is familiar with).
Jun 02, 2004 03:12 am i gotta agree with coolo. for example, its irritating to me when people try to pass off pop punk as punk. the two genres have nearly nothing in common. the soul of early punk was all in the attitude, and the die-hards look at the sex pistols and then look at blink182 and they just get angry. and i don't blame them. blink is what it is. the sex pistols are what they were. and they are very, VERY different.
*ducks*
Jun 02, 2004 05:00 am I highly doubt that Shania Twain, No Doubt or anyone else intentionally "bastardized" anything...if that is where their music took them, so be it.
Regarding the state of country...well, Shania Twain is one good example, but you look at ANY current country music artists and they have ALL changed it. Country music as a whole is changing into a much more pop-oriented style. And I for one, while not being a country music person really, think they are getting a totally bad wrap. You can listen to Toby Keith, Dixie Chicks, Shania Twain, looking back Garth Brooks (who is partly responsible for starting the change) and you can tell they haven't inentionally "bastardized" anything. They are in my age group or younger and quite obviously grew up listening to pop and rock music and it has bled over into their country music they make today. There is nothing wrong with that. These people all write their own music and are very talented people. Whether or not you like their genre is a moot point.
Just because one person doesn't like the direction, or doesn't like the music doesn't mean they are any less real, or write and play with any less passion than anyone else.
Everyone is way too genre-influenced. who cares if it fits the mold of a specific genere perfectly or not? who cares what the bands of yesteryear would think? Or even what other bands of today think?
Is it music? Does it stand on it's own as decent music to somebody? Thats all that matters. If everyone was so frickin concerned about this we would still all be playing medival folk melodies on a harp and mandolin...
Jun 02, 2004 06:20 am Yeah, I dig some of the reggae/ska kind of stuff. One of the projects that I play in is actually influenced a lot in those styles.
Another good band around that genre is 311 even though they touch more on the rock side of things also. Its pretty cool how they can mesh styles like that.
I also agree with DB, it is always cool to give music a chance regardless of what styles people mix and if it works it works, if it doesn't it doesn't. :) It used to be a big pet peve of mine when people would tell me that they would only listen to the radio or what not. Talk about Clear Channel or whoever controlling everything. lol There are so many other cool styles out there to explore.
Its sort of like colors on a pallet of paint... there are so many more out there to dabble with than meets the eye from industry standards. :)
Happy Exploring. :) peace
Jun 02, 2004 11:52 am Man, I wasn't expecting such a responce... and not to meantion the old debate of "what defines ska". HA! I give ALL jamacian influenced music specific names for that specific part of the genere. For example:
Ska = The Skatalites
Ska/pop/rock/etc = No Doubt
The Toasters/The Specials = 2-Tone
Less than Jake = Thirdwave/punk
The Paragons = Rocksteady
Bob Marley = Reggae
King Tubby = DUB
I know that's very anal but hey, it works for me. I'm glad to see there are so many here that like this type of music. My band specifily plays a mix of ska, rocksteady, reggae, and dub (we TRY to keep it semi-true sounding). But us, like many of the artests above, mix styles of jamacian music alot (that's why The Slackers rock). So yeah, I can see how some people mis-take bands for certain styles. It definity is a lot of different styles of this music and differnt tastes, I think that is why I love it so much. :)
Thanks again for posting!
Cheers! -Al
www.theops.net <--- free MP3's of my "jamacian influenced band" ;)
Jun 02, 2004 02:58 pm ahem. anal alert!!!
although the specials were classed as two tone (mainly a phrase they themselves invented to boost them out of the categorisation and also to promote race awareness etc) they were in essence a ska band. well, point of fact they were a dub band until they blagged they were ska to this london fella to get gigs. they used to be part of kangaroo court as well. it did grow from there though, tue enough.
i grew up around covenrty, home of selekta and specials, so they were kinda my hero's for quite a while.
i am too into my dub, reggae, dancehall, ragga, grime, lovers rock (on occaision!) and a lot of the whole jamaica sound.
[self promotion] if you check out some of the downloads i have here, some of them are very dub based.[end self promotion]
Jun 02, 2004 05:22 pm Quote:
It's like taking the root of something that many people feel passionate about, and bastardizing it in such a way that it no longer has the soul or the essense of what preceeded it. This may make it more popular (like the two examples we're working with) or less popular (anticon and hip hop), but it will undoubtedly raise the ire of those who feel attached and relate to the original.
I don't see what's wrong with music evolving. If you don't like it, don't listen to it. But just because it's a spin off of a style doesn't mean it deserves any less respect for being what it is. The newer style also has a soul and essense to it, and it is one that people can just as easily be passionate about. I can understand people being a bit annoyed when they hear a new style of ska or punk being associated with the same name as the older style, but I don't see why it's such a big deal what genre you catagorize music into. It just really annoys me personally that I'm considered ignorant if I use a term to discribe a type of music that other people associate with an older style. It's just as much music as the older style was.
Quote:
i gotta agree with coolo. for example, its irritating to me when people try to pass off pop punk as punk. the two genres have nearly nothing in common. the soul of early punk was all in the attitude, and the die-hards look at the sex pistols and then look at blink182 and they just get angry. and i don't blame them. blink is what it is. the sex pistols are what they were. and they are very, VERY different.
Haha, to give you the other side of things, it's irritating to me when people say that modern punk isn't punk. You're right that the genres don't have too much in common anymore, but for those who listen to modern punk and associate it with that term, it's just as much punk to them as early punk is to people who associate that style with the term. Does it really matter what you call it?
Anyway, just to clarify (Don't take this too personally, Albertv), I interperated Albertv's post as a negative slam against modern ska because of the way that it appeared he said it. He might have just been trying to clarify his post by saying that he meant older ska. If that's that's the case, then I'm totally fine with that because I respect the music just as much whether or not I enjoy it. However, I saw it as a way of saying, 'And no, I'm not referring to that modern crap that they try to pass off as ska.' In other words, it sounded like he considered new ska as less of an art, which bothered me as a fan of the new stuff.
But it's been cool hearing everyone else's opinion on the issue, and I'm glad to see that my post was not misinterpereted. I just wanted to get some conversation going on an issue that's been bothering me for some time.
Jun 02, 2004 07:02 pm "it's just as much punk to them as early punk is to people who associate that style with the term. Does it really matter what you call it?"
when you're talking about two completely different emotion-sets, doesn't the label itself need to evolve?
the sex pistols and blink have the verb "to reject" in common, but that's about all, and that attitude seems questionable with blink. the sex pistols were sort of scary. blink is sorta friendly. blink is 'cool.' the sex pistols seemed dangerous. the thing that's drawing you is different in each case. the feeling the fan is seeking is different. for certain types of music, that sort of thing matters. from what i've seen, old skoolers get upset when their unique label gets co-opted by an ideology that's polar opposite from what they identify with. it is threatening to them. if punk is engineered as a mass commodity, it's simply not punk to them.
labels often just seem to zero in on the wrong attributes. thats why theyre never perfect. candlebox and bush were not grunge. for that matter, it'd be hard to make a case that STP was. they were just a good grungy-sounding band, but they were coming from a different place inside, you know?
Jun 02, 2004 07:54 pm It is all good really. Reggae, Ska, Dub, and all the little extened genres all coming from Reggae and its descendants are good. Punk in its pure form is just another descendant really.
Anyway, Minneapolis was once home in the late 70's and early 80's to some very fine Reggae bands that rated high in being true to form. A friend of mine Peter Himmelman who is now Bob Dylans son in law was the lead guitar player for one of the best Shangoya. They packed anyplace they played, and it didnt matter the size, big or small they packed them in. Why, because of the power of that type of music. He later formed aonther band that drew form those influances, but tended to lean toward new wave, punk and just a touch of Ska. But it was very radio friendly stuff, and now one dissed him for doing so, he was viewed as very creative and was praised by the masses for taking a little from each genre and making it feel new again. He later went on to make 7 or 8 solo albums and dived head first into many differant genres.
But all that said, I to enjoy Reggae and all its little siblings. I love hearing what others come up with playing in that style and look forward to that type of music being around for a long time to come.
By the way Albertv05, I went to your site and had a listen to the tunes, very nice touch on the production. They sound very vinyl like, really old school sounding. I must say I was very impressed, and if I were ever in the neighborhood I would definately look you guys, and girl up.
Jun 02, 2004 07:57 pm Forty-
Yeah, I totally understand what you're saying. And yes, I think that the label probably should also evolve (Well, they do generally call new punk Pop Punk, so it has sort of evolved), but apparently it usually doesn't. You could say that about rock n' roll in general, I suppose.
What can I say? Punk and ska have well-established new meanings these days. I'm fine with it because I grew up with it and I like it. As I said before, for people who listen to new punk (Not necessarily just Blink 182-ish bands) and associate it with the term "punk", it's just as much "punk" to them as early punk is to people who connect it with the term.
Okay, I think I've said my piece. Now I'm just repeating stuff...
Jun 02, 2004 08:51 pm i hear ya too, especially the last bit.
pop-punk is a decent evolution of the label, as best as can be expected, i gotta agree. the music is poppy, and many of the outward punk musical signatures are there. you'd almost have to include the word punk in the label.
but not being around for the earlier stuff can cause problems if you meet a purist (which is also a legitimate thing to be, as legitimate as a person with an entirely open mind who shuns labels and chooses not to be bothered with categories.) the guitarist in my old band always insisted blink was true punk. i always would go into this discussion with him and try to make a distinction, not because i care about punk or blink or even about categories, but because i was tied to the whole argument tangentially: the lack of what i felt was a true punk vibe (a certain scariness/hostility) in post-grunge is what made post-grunge meaningless to me. yet people were calling it grunge, and i didn't like that because it didn't feel at all true.
but in the end, whatever you call the music, it's true: you either like a band like blink or you don't.
Jun 02, 2004 09:02 pm (rant)
Ya can all smack me for this but I truly believe when refering to Grunge there is really only one band that deserves that title and that would be Nirvana. All the other bands labeled as such were only called by that as for the way they dressed and the fact they were from Seatle.
[/rant)
Jun 03, 2004 12:15 am that's a fine perspective. the punk influence seems key to grunge, and nirvana was the only one out of the big four that really had that in the right way. the pixies also seemed very close to grunge--the punkish attitude was there in all respects except that the lyrics were just basically silly. the songs could be violent though. and played sloppily. close call.
Jun 03, 2004 05:59 am i always thought grunge was more a term of a movement than a sound....emo driven hard rock, that's kinda what i classed it as. I don't think that one band can corner a genre all by itself, but that's just me.
the reason music has progressed is as much due to industry and recording techniques as any musical journey, imho.
'real' music is on the up, as kids get narked off with too much samey pop and start to pick up guitars. this is so prevalent in the uk a lot of the medium sized indie dance labels are shutting down, cos the 'kids' are into guitars now. I see that as a good thing, and hope it lasts (not my friends labels disappearing, but you know what i mean!)
i think one wil always percieve any music that resembles, but not is not actually, the music we loved back in the day. i love the upsetters, winston williams, but am also into a lot of what the hellcat lbel puts out. maybe it was growong up in a culture that was populated by the alternative...the punks hung with the rudeboys etc, that this crossover happened, the clash went to lee perry etc.
punk is an attitude, i ahve a briefcase more punk than half the bands termed as punk nowadays, but then half the dance acts are more punk than them too!
Jun 03, 2004 09:31 am I'm a Five Iron Frenzy fanatic.... but they broke up last year... used to like The OC Supertones but they turned skametalcore...and then dropped the horn section and then tried to go rock'a'billy and I got lost in the shuffle. The Insyders were pretty good but I havn't heard from then sense 98 or so.
Jun 03, 2004 09:47 am Five Iron Frenzy, wow, that brings back some memories I have seen them many times, front center stage security, so I always got the best view...when I could actually look at the stage.
I never cared much for their music, but just the name does bring back the memories.
Jun 03, 2004 10:47 am Woo! Yeah, I'm a big FIF, Insyderz, Supertones fan. Zek- The Supertones never actually dropped their horns section, although they have strayed away from their roots as a natural progression. I love their newer stuff, but if you like the more ska stuff, check out their next studio album, "Revenge of the Supertones" which releases June 15th. It's a bit of a trip back to their roots, with a lot more of the ska influence.
The Insyderz actually just came out with a new CD after like a 4 year break and they're back together now. It's called "Soundtrack to a Revolution." It's a good CD, but I'm a big fan of "Fight of my Life," myself.
Did you check out FIF's final CD, "The End is Here/Near?" Now there's a band who knows how to go out in style! They came out with three releases, including a full studio album, and a tour to support it (and their death) all after they announced they were breaking up :)
Jun 03, 2004 12:22 pm Noize2u, thanks for checking out my music and I'm glad you liked it! It may sound more "vinyl" than it actaully is because of the streaming qualitly (or lack there of) on purevolume.com. We recorded it on Protools so its all digital, but we mixed it like a old school reggae/ska album... so that helps. Definitly not mixed like a rock album ;)
I've really enjoyed everyones posts (and arguments)haha... I'm surprised there are so many "jamacian influenced" music fans out there. Makes me happy to see. I love the music only second to what I do for a living (and if I could make music my living I would, but as a ska musician... I'd starve ) and I'm just very excited to see all the people who love the music as I do :) Thanks again!
Cheers! -Al
Jun 03, 2004 02:42 pm sorry for hijacking the thread into that weird side topic man. anyone who hasn't, check out hepcat for some cool rocksteady/reggae
Jun 03, 2004 02:47 pm Haha... I'd say I'm probably the one responsible for the hijacking :)
Jun 03, 2004 10:17 pm fortymile-
Hepcat is AMAZING! I also recommed them. They are by far the closest you can get to a reggae band from the late 60's from Jamacia without a time machine ;) They just played NYC last weekend... unfortunally I couldn't go had a wedding to attend to... but man, I've talked to guys that went and they said it was by far one of the best shoes they've ever gone to. Anyone looking to check out a good new band, check them out. "Scientific" or "Out of nowwhere" is recommended.
-Al
Jun 03, 2004 10:19 pm Also....
The Slackers!!!! www.theslackers.com UNBELIEVEABLE american ska/reggae from NYC. They are huge in the american ska scene. The Slackers do a mix of Bob Dylan meets Bob Marley, another band worthy of checking out! My favorite ska band ever. Nice guys too... :)
Jun 04, 2004 09:51 am actually I don't have their last album... I've only bought 3 CD's in the past year, Disciple, Staple, and a russian country band called Bering Straits (I hate country but russian bluegrass was too much to pass up). I should get it just to come to terms with it being over... :(
My love for the supertones deminished after Chase the Sun. ... though The Adventures of the OC Supertones album sounded like they were playing kazoos :)
Jun 04, 2004 06:12 pm oh man... which album do you mean? "Close my eyes" or "Wasted Days"? Some people don't like Wasted Days because of the different mixes of styles The Slackers added to alot of thier songs, but Close my eyes is great. The song writing is amazing. However, the production of the album is different. Very simple and almost rough... like an old reggae record. But man, does that album groove. They are releasing a new EP soon, can't wait for that.
The Supertones were good... I liked a few of the older songs. But they don't do much for me. When you said you bought a "Staple" album did you mean "Neville Stape", front man from The Specials??? If not, I highly recommend his stuff. I played with him a year ago and man... what a show. His solo act is great (his band is amazing). He plays about 1/2 old Special's tunes and 1/2 originals... the originals are great. If you like the Pilfers and stuff like that... you'll love his music.
Jun 04, 2004 10:07 pm i take it hepcat is not classed as ska, right? cause in the review i wrote for the local rag here, at one point i called them something like 'true ska.'
i didnt know what i was saying and tried to keep away from that side of it, and just focus on the music. but i'd like to know if i made an error.
Jun 05, 2004 08:32 pm The Slackers are great. A friend of mine turned me onto their stuff several years ago. I like their laid back approach. And I gotta agree with the Bob Dylan meets Bob Marley comparison, that is oh so true.
Jun 06, 2004 09:39 pm Hepcat IS ska in the traditional sence. Meaning they play it like ska was played in the 60's. The term "true ska" is acturate. Good call on that.
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