A couple months of work...GONE!

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ILLbino - one of WA's finest
Member Since: Feb 10, 2004

Well, I formatted my computer and backed up all my files on a few CD Roms. Everything was great until I tried to load everything back onto my computer. Then the worst thing that could have happened, HAPPENED! I lost almost every beat compilation I've created in the last couple months because they are corrupted on the CD. I've had this happen before but thought it wouldnt happen again. Definitely my fault! I've tried using another cd player to read the disc and the same problem occured.

As for what caused it, I think it's either (A) Nero burning software sucks or (B) I burned at too high of speed. I can burn an audio cd, just fine, but the data cds I think are getting burnt too fast and corrupting files.

So any suggestions on what to do in the future? I burned 3 cds and all of them had trouble. Some of the files worked on them while others wouldn't. I guess I could sample the sounds of me breaking the CD's and then make a beat out of it, lol.

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Bane of All Existence
Member
Since: Mar 27, 2003


May 17, 2004 07:29 pm

man that happened to me when i reinstalled XP on my girlfriend's laptop...i lost all of her documents because the folder info on the CD was corrupted. that is, the data was there, but where each bit of it was located wasn't. bogus!

next time try your backup CD in a different computer and make sure it copies. sometimes when you burn a CD, you can read it in the same drive but not in those of other computers. just be thorough.

Member
Since: Jan 18, 2003


May 17, 2004 07:42 pm

maybe dont burn the files on CD-RW disks. did you?

anytime i used to try to backup data on those, the computer would be unable to read them, or they would fail after a few reads. i have never come up with an explanation for that. i have since switched to CD-R disks and have had no trouble.


ILLbino - one of WA's finest
Member
Since: Feb 10, 2004


May 17, 2004 07:43 pm

they were burnt on CD-Rs.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


May 17, 2004 08:09 pm

That sucks man, very sorry to hear the misfortune. That happened to me once a few years back.

Multiple hard drvies dude, multiple hard drives...

The lessons hardest learned are generally the best remembered. Not that that helps you at all right now.

ILLbino - one of WA's finest
Member
Since: Feb 10, 2004


May 17, 2004 08:37 pm

I've tried to remain positive about it and tell myself that the future material I come up with will outshine all my previous work so maybe it's better it got deleted, lol.

Member
Since: Jan 18, 2003


May 17, 2004 08:50 pm

i have had that happen too. i had both feelings. the positive one was that while everything was gone, a lot of it was crap.

and now it was all gone and i wouldnt have to keep saving it without knowing why.

grrrrrrr
Member
Since: Mar 29, 2004


May 18, 2004 03:52 am

I lost just one track from a session this week-end and I was upset all day. That was just me being stupid and forgetting the name of the song I was recording. I can't even begin to imagine how bad you must feel. I have 3 hard drives now. Internal, a USB 2 and a firewire. Once I am done with a recording session I back up the whole folder. And sometimes keep old versions on another drive or partition. At least 2 physical hard drives is a MUST. They are so cheap now. Go grab one and leave CD's to their destiny.

Eat Spam before it eats YOU!!!
Member
Since: May 11, 2002


May 18, 2004 09:02 am

look at this software called R-Studio for recoveries... saved my *** once... www.homerecordingconnecti...d=1248&frm4

I think I did email that disaster recovery article in too... I still have a copy of it around I think...

You "may" be able to recover some files off the HD expecially if it has remained unused...any portion that hasn't been written over will be recoverable so if it was a full hard disk and you erased it and put a few files on it only the oldest (usually) will be written over and non recoverable.

Member
Since: Jan 08, 2003


May 18, 2004 09:43 am

When burning data CDs using Nero, ALWAYS turn on the 'verify data after burning' feature if it's a critical backup.

This will compare what's on the harddrive, with what's on the CD, before telling you that it burned successfully.

Of course, it takes about 3 times longer, but it's worth it!

I also tend to use Norton Ghost to do backups, and not only backup to CD, but the HDD itself, then I optimize the drive so that 'if' the CD fails, I can recover the data from the HDD.

And as for recovery, you definately have a chance, but get to it right away because the longer you wait, the less chance you have.

W.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


May 18, 2004 09:48 am

How do you have less of a chance if you wait a few days? I wouldn't know either way, as I am no disaster recovery expert, but I am real good at creating disasters...

...bringing sexy back
Member
Since: Jul 01, 2002


May 18, 2004 10:29 am

presumably the quicker the better with hard discs to stop too much data getting overriden?

not with cd's though, obviously. no rush there at all...


Member
Since: Jan 08, 2003


May 18, 2004 01:03 pm

Partially that factor, some utilities, such as Norton Speed Disk, other defraggers and such might re-organize the data, etc.. Once the original FAT is unlocatable, your data is as good as gone (sifting through billions of bytes ain't fun).

Plus, the magnetic signature used to recreate some data with advanced recovery weakens over time.

W.

ILLbino - one of WA's finest
Member
Since: Feb 10, 2004


May 18, 2004 01:25 pm

I don't think the recovery software will work because i formatted my computer and didn't use the quick method. So i'm pretty sure it's gone.

As for the verify feature, that's a good idea. I've seen that feature but never read up on it as I felt I didn't really need to. When I burned the CD and the results said "no errors" then I figure it worked. I'll try the verify feature next time.

Member
Since: Jan 08, 2003


May 18, 2004 03:40 pm

Unless you low-level-formatted the drive, it's still easily recoverable (even if you did, it can be recovered to a certain extent). Low-level-formatting utilities do not come standard with any windows installation, or boot disks, so it's unlikely.

W.

Member
Since: May 03, 2004


May 18, 2004 04:59 pm

Most SCSI adapters have low-level formatting built into the firmware, but it sounds like just a regular formatting anyway. Still, I'm wondering if the data on the CD-R might be recoverable. Here's some links I found. I have no idea if any of these places are reliable:

AcoDisc: www.acodisc.com/
BadCopy: www.jufsoft.com/badcopy/cd_recovery.asp
NalTech: www.naltech.com/
CdRoller: www.cdroller.com/

Don't give up!

I'm Roscoooo P. Coltrane
Member
Since: Apr 12, 2003


May 18, 2004 05:08 pm

I had this happen last year. I lost two songs I was working on. It sucks! I also have trouble with cd-rw's fortymile.

sloppy dice, drinks twice
Member
Since: Aug 05, 2003


May 18, 2004 05:14 pm

ILLbizzel, sorry to hear of your trouble with the cd. I know losing your work can be like losing part of your memory - part of your life just disappears with no trace.

Member
Since: Jan 08, 2003


May 18, 2004 07:50 pm

Quote:
Most SCSI adapters have low-level formatting built into the firmware

Sure, but you have to specifically enter the SCSI bios utility, then select the option. Even then, the magnetic signature remains on the drive and thus data can be reconstructed... Hence the reason behind banks destroying their old machines...

As for recovery software, for someone new to attempting it, I would recommend OnTracks recovery software.

I should re-iterate, that almost anything stored on magnetic media can be recovered. How difficult, how expensive, and what lengths you are willing to go to, are the biggest factors.

W.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


May 18, 2004 08:04 pm

Yes, when deleting data, even formatting, as I understand all the computer really does is change the beginning of each file name or sector or whatever to start with a special character, such as "$" so the software knows that that sector of FAT space is available for overwriting..."deleting" really doesn't exist...

As I understand it anyway.

Thanks for the info Waldo...interesting stuff.

Member
Since: Jan 08, 2003


May 18, 2004 08:24 pm

To a certain degree dB, yes, depending on the OS, and the FAT type. On a FAT32 system, when a file is deleted it is simply marked as deleted in the FAT.

However, formatting is an entirely different system. Standard formatting (on MS based systems) simply erases the FAT and organizes 'groups' of data with 'headers', possibly overwriting 'some' old data.

Quick formatting erases only the FAT, or marks large portions of the files as 'deleted'.

Low level formatting however, resets every byte on the drive to null, leaving no file system in tact.

The data, however, that was written to that drive still exists as a magnetic signature, and can, with special software, sometimes be read several layers deep. Other means of recovery include platter reconstruction (physically removing the platters and placing them in special machinery) which can go sometimes hundreds of layers deep, to find things deleted and overwritten many hundreds of times.

Anyways, it's an interesting science!

W.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


May 19, 2004 04:17 am

Yup, very interesting stuff, thanks for the info.

ILLbino - one of WA's finest
Member
Since: Feb 10, 2004


May 19, 2004 10:12 am

This is how I formatted:

Put in windows xp disc, restart computer and booted from cd rom. Then deleted the partition (format) and didn't use the quick version. Then it created a NTSF? So your saying that my work still can be saved?

Member
Since: Jan 08, 2003


May 19, 2004 01:53 pm

NTFS, and yes, there is still the chance that it can be saved easily (and always the chance that it can be recovered with some difficulty).

W.

Member
Since: Apr 12, 2004


May 19, 2004 04:19 pm

[quote]
I've tried to remain positive about it and tell myself that the future material I come up with will outshine all my previous work so maybe it's better it got deleted, lol.
[/quote]

Literally 'lost' 5 years of my life. Mostly application source code I had written due to a hard disk and DAT backup failure. You will move on and the results will be better but it will still burn at you when you think of it.

I use an external hard disk backup as well as CD-R archives. I don't use generic CD-R's and I burn at 2x using Nero with the verify method from ISO images I created before hand with WinISO. The process has worked flawlessly for me for the past 3 years. Also, and I don't know for sure if this makes a difference, but I always defrag before doing backups using DiskKeeper (MS defrag sucks).
I'm pretty sure that won't help the data from corrupting on the burn but it makes me feel better.

You have my sympathy, and good luck getting back in business.

[quote]
NTFS, and yes, there is still the chance that it can be saved easily (and always the chance that it can be recovered with some difficulty).
[/quote]

Hrrrm... if you think so. I have gone so far as to use 'dd' and 'fsdebug' utilities on drives I had just accidentally deleted files from with no luck. If the disk was heavily fragmented it will be difficult to trace the chain and retreive all the data. Also, correct me if I am wrong, but once you have formatted you had lost the journal and allocation table that existed for the data. It is true that the data is still there (the military shreds all it's drives since even low-level formats do not remove all of the data stored on it after consecute overwrites as well) but finding the file start and subsequent chunks will be very difficult.

My suggestion, comming from experience, is to try a few simple procedures to see if you can save anything and if it doesn't look good - don't waste you time and energy - pick up and move on. Put that frustration into the next tune and crank it up!

Member
Since: Jan 08, 2003


May 19, 2004 04:56 pm

Quote:
Also, correct me if I am wrong, but once you have formatted you had lost the journal and allocation table that existed for the data

There is multiple copies of the journal/FAT on microsoft based systems, and only the first is overwritten/or each entry marked as deleted. Provided the entries for the files he needs aren't overwritten yet, the data will be very easily recovered (he'll only need to know the first letter of the file name, the app will do the rest).

I've only done a few thousand successful recoveries in my 16+ years as a tech though, so I could be wrong!

Quote:
dd' and 'fsdebug' utilities on drives I had just accidentally deleted files from with no luck
They're kindof of known not to be useful for this purpose, especially if you are not exteremely familiar with the layout of the data.

There is data recovery applications readily available that do 99% of the work for you.

This is critical: DO NOT run any disk utilities, defragmentation, scandisk, or restore utilities on your drive before attempting recovery. YOU WILL GREATLY reduce the chances of recovering any data.

Also, my advice is DO NOT defragment, or use any disk maintenance/repair utilities on a drive before backing it up, as any critical errors may be triggered and cause more issues than they could fix.

If, for example, you have a bad sector on the drive, and damaged data as a result, moving data in and out of that spot will create more munged data, and thus corrupt your backup. Always backup PRIOR to defragmenting, or running any sort of maintenance operations.

Your backup utility should automatically do any file structuring/defragmenting of the data it is storing anyways, and running it before would only serve to speed up the backup process itself (but lengthen the whole process!).

W.

ILLbino - one of WA's finest
Member
Since: Feb 10, 2004


May 19, 2004 05:44 pm

So is there any freeware that would help me locate and restore my productions?

Member
Since: May 03, 2004


May 19, 2004 06:22 pm

Have you tried any of the available CD-R recovery software to see if you can get it from those corrupted CD-Rs? One place had a demo download, so you could see if it was actually going to work for you. The average price I was seeing was about $30US.

ILLbino - one of WA's finest
Member
Since: Feb 10, 2004


May 19, 2004 06:26 pm

i haven't tried that. I didn't know they made a CD-R recovery software...I'll check it out.

Member
Since: May 03, 2004


May 19, 2004 07:36 pm

I posted some links up above. See my post in this thread on May 18, 2004 04:59 pm. I've never used any of the software I listed, but I've had the same need as you. If you find one that works, I'd sure like to know too. I don't have any corrupted CD-Rs now, or I'd try one of them myself.

Member
Since: Jan 08, 2003


May 19, 2004 07:38 pm

Problem with CD-r recovery software is it doesn't account for bad media. If the media itself is at fault, then you're hooped.

Try the HDD data recovery before you do anything else!

W.

Member
Since: May 03, 2004


May 19, 2004 08:14 pm

TRW is correct about bad media. I would also not try the CD-R recovery on the system and hard drive that would be your last resort for recovery. So do it on a different computer if you try it!

ILLbino - one of WA's finest
Member
Since: Feb 10, 2004


May 19, 2004 08:49 pm

I'm trying a program called File Scavenger right now which is supposed to recover lost data, but it hasn't found anything yet.

ILLbino - one of WA's finest
Member
Since: Feb 10, 2004


May 19, 2004 10:56 pm

Well, this was kind of weird. File Scavenger did find deleted files. Yet, it came up with all my older beats but none of my new ones. I use fruity loops and searched for *.flp The most recent modified file was in Feb, 2004. Why could it find those, but not the newer ones? Probably those got over-written?

ILLbino - one of WA's finest
Member
Since: Feb 10, 2004


May 19, 2004 11:02 pm

I think I figured it out why. My older beats were made on an earlier version of fruity loops which had smaller sized files. I think this File Scavenger demo can only recover files up to 64 kb, which is probably not large enough for the new fruity loops edition.

Member
Since: Jan 08, 2003


May 20, 2004 01:10 am

I can guaruntee that what you need is going to be over 64kb. Before you 'try' any other software, ensure that it can recover the full size file(s), or you risk destroying the files you wish to recover and reduce your odds of recovering them.

W.

Eat Spam before it eats YOU!!!
Member
Since: May 11, 2002


May 20, 2004 10:22 am

yeah... 64k only aught to be enough for everyone in the 80's... you'll need an extra hard disk to save it to...

As for DB's question earlier... deleted items are "there" until over written a couple of times... which on most consumer systems is quickly done with the windows page file and other virtual memory type thingys

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