live tips
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Posted on May 17, 2004 03:59 pm
drake
Member Since: Apr 13, 2004
I'm going to be starting to do some live gigs for people. i had a big question to ask that would save me a bunch of money:
is it possible to send the subouts of my mixer into my delta 66, send the signals through a program such as reason (or another program with a digital audio rack system), then send the signal out the delta 66 back into the mixer and have that be the main mix?
Would this setup make an analog rack not neccessary??
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TadpuiI am not a crook's headMember
Since: Mar 14, 2003
May 17, 2004 11:33 pm I think that lots of latency would be introduced into your signal by converting from analog to digital so many times.
Technically, I don't see why it wouldn't be possible, but logistically I think it has the potential to turn a performance into nightmare.
If you give it a try, let us know how it works out.
zekthedeadcowEat Spam before it eats YOU!!!Member
Since: May 11, 2002
May 18, 2004 09:12 am it's generally a very bad idea to include a computer in a live rig... they like to not work...like vocalists... but you don't need vocalists...
May 18, 2004 09:22 am YOU! zek
outside NOW!
I'm a vocalist you know:D
you just insulted me ! you, me twenty steps revolvers all that:D
just kiddin' I like not working:D
Allthough I have to sometimes:S
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
May 18, 2004 01:24 pm Ya best thing for a vocalist is the mute switch. Puters and live performances are not at all condusive to great performances and too much fun had by all. Exactly for why do you want to do these wierd things? In all senserity, an analog rack will be much easier to manage. If you want to tap it with the puter just for recording that would probably work out ok.
May 18, 2004 01:28 pm Wow, lots of negativity toward computers at live gigs...good thing people like Yes and Rush don't think like that...It's totally possible, just take time at home or in the practice space to get everything figured out for routing through your PC, cuz you won't want to at the club. If you have a clean lean PC that is only for recording, therefore doesn't have your kids Reader Rabbit and Winnie the Pooh games installed on it, you'll be off pretty well.
I dunno about you guys and your negativity, since moving to Windows XP, I have a lot more faith in my PC, it's rock solid.
el musicoFreeleance Producer/Engineer/GtrMember
Since: Aug 11, 2002
May 18, 2004 01:51 pm it depends on what you want to do. if you want to just mix a live band then i would use an analog mixer. if you want to record them then use and analog mixer and use the direct outs to the pc. doing this will ensure that if your pc dies then you'll still have the mix.
i'm not sure why you'd want to use the pc for mixing unless you want to use effects or combine prerecorded tracks in with the mix. Fill me in... i'm interested.
drakeMember
Since: Apr 13, 2004
May 18, 2004 02:34 pm k here's the deal...
i have a 4 bus analog mixer that i use for live and studio mixing and multitrack recording. my problem is that i have absolutely no rack gear (compressors, limiters, gates, parametric EQs, multiband EQs) but the program "reason" that i have does have these built in to the program. so i could run the signal through the program instead of spending a fortune on rack gear!
(db- my computer is just that, MY computer. it is solely for recording so no winnie the pooh games. besides, i'm only 20 years old! not ready for kids yet!)
i'm now just trying to see if it is possible... i understand it would be better to get analog gear, but i'm broke.
heck, i may be on to something new here! work with me! :P
Thanks for the input guys!
May 18, 2004 02:36 pm well, if the signal is clipping going into the PC it's gonna be nasty coming out...it'd work for reverbs (tho be CPU intensive) and things like that, but for compression it isn't recommended in my opinion...
drakeMember
Since: Apr 13, 2004
May 18, 2004 02:45 pm hmm... so maybe if i bought myself a simple 4 channel compressor (Behringer MDX4600?) this would solve my problem and i could use the built in EQs and effects in the mixer (behringer ub2442fxpro). but then i'm seeing some serious latency issues if i wanted to still route through the computer....
this whole thing is getting too confusing! :O
el musicoFreeleance Producer/Engineer/GtrMember
Since: Aug 11, 2002
May 18, 2004 03:13 pm I'm not expert (yet, lol) but compression for live use is unnecessary... at least at the level i think you're talking about. using the limiting function of a compressor will probably prove most valuable live but, IMO, no software compressor will give you true results.
i think it is confusing to you because you may think that the rules for multitracking/mixing apply to live sound. obviously some do, but not all translate evenly "across the board."
It should be possible to run into your PC and mix 'in the box' then output the stereo mix to whatever is powering your PA. Should work fine, but start adding effects and you'll most likely run into some serious latency issues.
May 18, 2004 03:18 pm Oooooooooo I disagree, compression is very necessary live...vewy, vewy necessawy.
el musicoFreeleance Producer/Engineer/GtrMember
Since: Aug 11, 2002
May 18, 2004 03:45 pm by all means, dB... elaborate. i start my live sound classes next week. give me a heads up!
FunkDadyPNo Commercial Appeal.Member
Since: Jan 09, 2003
May 18, 2004 03:55 pm my guess is that you need to compress most things live because when musicians play live, they tend to vary their volume (drummers play softer on some songs, vocalists get near and far from the mic).
May 18, 2004 08:48 pm Compression and limitting is an absolute must during live performance (unless you have fast fingers, good ears, know every single person in the band, know the venue, all of their gear, max outputs, and know for sure that you don't need it; we're talking possible gear damage, not to mention pissed off fans), and the best advice I think I could ever give would be avoid relying on any computer software to run your effects live, especially during a live show that you are getting paid for.
First, the majority of computers aren't designed for it (nor is the operating sytem or the software), and if it craps out (and they have that nasty habbit in an untested environment such as a live venue!), you're the one who'll be blamed, not the gear!
A note on Rush and Yes, they use computers, specialized outboard input/output hardware, specialized operating systems, and software that are priced much more expensive than outboard gear needed for most live shows. We're talking tens of thousands...
W.
flame...bringing sexy backMember
Since: Jul 01, 2002
May 19, 2004 08:44 am Quote:
doesn't have your kids Reader Rabbit and Winnie the Pooh games installed on it
is that a confession dan?
May 19, 2004 08:44 am ha, not at all...there are two other PC's in the house for that stuff...NOBODY touches my studio box but me...
flame...bringing sexy backMember
Since: Jul 01, 2002
May 19, 2004 08:47 am lol, i figured. couldnt resist anyway though...
vdalehubbardLost for words with all to say.Contributor
Since: Sep 12, 2003
May 19, 2004 10:35 am I've done some live recordings and got a pretty good sound out of them. You might want a board that has individual outs for each in. I own a Soundcraft M12 along with my Delta 1010 and Aardvark 20/20+ to have plenty of ins going to my PC. Also have the main outs on my board for the mains. Have them going in the PC dry. Practice before the service to make sure they are not too hot coming in and clipping. It can be done, just take the time before hand to set it up.
May 19, 2004 01:51 pm Live recording sure, but we're talking the machine being used for live effects, i.e., realtime!
W.
vdalehubbardLost for words with all to say.Contributor
Since: Sep 12, 2003
May 19, 2004 02:54 pm Much RAM and CPU to be able to handle 16 tracks at once coming in plus live effects? Man, I'm not sure about that. The lag would probably be unbarable.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
May 19, 2004 10:53 pm dB, I don't know for certain that all of the posts you refered to are negitive. I know for myself and the folks I perform with a PC would be combersome. In the right hands I'm sure it would be fine. As you noted, practice and preperation up front would help that scenerio. Our performances are too fluid however and coupled with the general hyperactivity most of my bandmates demonstrate would make a PC on stage a nightmare. Treated as an instrument with a dedicated performer it would probably be much better. It is simly not "reach out and grab an knob" friendly for me, and that is all the time I have between pieces when we perform. Sometimes that is a streatch.
