Acoustic Mix Request For Comments
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Posted on Apr 20, 2004 04:14 pm
mhubbard
Member Since: Apr 12, 2004
Hi everyone I just registered for the forums but have been lurking around here for a while.
I just finished up a couple tracks for a friend of mine and wanted to get some comments on the sound and mix.
We were going for a rather dry 'girl and her guitar' feel. I used a pair of stereo matched Octava MC012's with cardiod capsules about 4-6in away. One pointing down the kneck towards the 12th fret and the other about 3in behind the bridge. I placed an SM57 about 12in away pointed on an angle from the 12th fret to towards the back corner of the sound hole and finally an MD421 on the floor on an upward angle about 2ft away.
The vox were done with an Rhode NT1 with no compression to tape.
I'd appreciate any comments on the overall tone and mix. There are still some artifacts in there I havn't attended to yet, mainly the crickets from the open window (it was HOT in the room =) ).
Heres the link: www.down4life.com/audio/Leander.mp3
Thanks.
edit: Ooops. Think this is in the wrong forum now that I'm looking at it. Forgive me.
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Apr 21, 2004 07:48 am Quote:
We were going for a rather dry 'girl and her guitar' feel
Well you really got that, if you ask me.
Lovely song, irish hints to an american singer songwriter. The vocals and song remind me a lot of Paula Cole. Indeed it falls very much into the category that i call "Dawson's Creek", with maybe just a touch of Sarah McLachlan in there too, but with an American twang.
I'm hearing some artifacts like you say, but not crickets, rather some light distortion caused by mp3 compression i think. Only on the vocals i hasten to add, not on the guitars which are as crisp and clear as a bell. Your micing techniques seem to have worked a treat.... i adore the way the lower tones appear to come from a different place on the sonic landscape than the higher ones.
The only thing i could think of saying which could even be classed as "negative" (not really negative, just opinion) is that i think the vocals should be slightly louder, slightly more up front. They should drive the song and be supported by the mellow melty guitar, at the moment i feel the vocals are supporting the guitar track. The vocal performance is far too good for that. It's exception, IMO. I'd love to hear those long "oooooooooooooh"s swell during the chorus...that would add another dimension to the song entirely. Make it sound less constant, and more dynamic.
As for other mixing comments... i cant really fault any of it..... the reverb on the vocal doesnt jump out at me, yet they dont sound at all dry...... which is the sign of great application.
Great song, great vocals, great mix if you ask me ;)
Apr 21, 2004 09:37 am [quote]
I'm hearing some artifacts like you say, but not crickets, rather some light distortion caused by mp3 compression i think. Only on the vocals i hasten to
[/quote]
Yeah the other track was the one with the crickets. She has a pause in it. Actually the distortion is on the vocal track here and there. They did not peak - but it sounds harsh in some spots. That was a little bit of a mystery to me so if anyone can throw some insight as to why that is I would appreciate it.
[quote]
The only thing i could think of saying which could even be classed as "negative" (not really negative, just opinion) is that i think the vocals should be slightly louder, slightly more up front.
[/quote]
I was trying to go for the full vocal drive. I'm used to mixing (and my tastes are) rock. We tend to bury the vocals in anything with distorted guitars - usually cause the singer is horrible. =)
So I'm still working on what is acceptable here.
[quote]
As for other mixing comments... i cant really fault any of it..... the reverb on the vocal doesnt jump out at me, yet they dont sound at all dry...... which is the sign of great application.
Great song, great vocals, great mix if you ask me ;)
[/quote]
Thanks, I really appreciate you taking the time to listen and give some feedback.
cooloFrisco's Most UnderratedMember
Since: Jan 28, 2003
Apr 21, 2004 12:51 pm Um, this song is beautiful. Maybe, maybe, the vocals could come to the front slightly more, but if you didn't change a thing, I'd still be in love with this song.
When I was reading your post, I was thinking to myself, geez, did this guy use enough mics on the guitar or what. But then I heard the result, and uh, you really can't argue with that at all. Like neuaddsibly, I really do like how the different guitar tones are coming from different places (though I probably wouldn't have noticed if he hadn't pointed it out). Very cool.
Apr 21, 2004 01:59 pm [quote]Maybe, maybe, the vocals could come to the front slightly more, but if you didn't change a thing, I'd still be in love with this song.
[/quote]
Ah yes, now i couldnt have said it better myself. :)
Thanks for explaining about your rock background, mhubbard, it sure is plain that you're "used to mixing" as you say, but it's always interesting to hear confirmation of how different genres require different techniques. And, you're very welcome by the way...the song is totally fantastic, all facets of it.
The spots of vocal distortion definitely sound like mp3 conversion artifacts to me, but i'm by no means an expert or anything.
DanMember
Since: Nov 21, 2002
Apr 21, 2004 03:19 pm bravo my friend. that was great. I love the guitar sound. great voice. i think neuaddsibly and coolo covered everything that i would have said. great job
Apr 21, 2004 07:54 pm Thanks everyone!
I'm going to let me ears rest on this one for a while and try another mix tommorow. I'd like to fatten up the vocals a bit to match the full guitar sound and try bringing them 'closer' to the guitar in the mix.
coolo: I did not intend on using all of the mic's in the final mix. I knew my octava's hadn't given me the best sound in the past so I wanted to be sure I had options. I wound up using the MD421 (distant) very low in the mix for some verb and I bumped the 57 up slightly to give me most of the lows and body. I even had a direct track but the guitar had clear enough transients so I just muted it.
Oh and I will pass along the kind words to the artist. She really is incredible and that's really what made this mix come out so well.
tonyd1970The fat one always watches us.Member
Since: Nov 08, 2002
Apr 25, 2004 08:58 am Jewel who? Wow, that was really great. Im a huge fan of guitar and vocal. (i never nail it so well) this was great. i dont think the vox should be louder, just panning the guitar to the outside a little and dropping the eq on the guitar right in the vox range. (these are just suggestions, i love it the way it is) wonderful job
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Apr 25, 2004 10:09 pm Sorry it took so long to get a listen but I am absolutely impressed. You really did get a fantastic dry sound, that isnt really too dry. You did get a very full guitar sound without being overly bright sounding. Her voice sounds very full and natural. The guitar is full in the stereo field and leans just a bit to the right, and the voice leans ever so slightly to the left. I loved it as it made the mix have just that bit of movement. Her voice is very beutiful sounding alongside the guitar. And you have done an excellant job of blending them together.
I am with coolo as well, she is a wonderfull pleasure to listen to. And it sounds as if she would have been great to record with as well. Please give her my comliments as well.
I would love to hear the crickets, I always thought that kind of stuff adds character to a track.
Apr 26, 2004 10:04 am Noize2u: Thanks for taking the time.
I'll post the other track here: www.down4life.com/audio/Firelight.mp3
Real faint outdoor noise and crickets on the pauses. Which, as I think of it now, really works for the song. I might suggest sampling something like this when she gets into the big studio - just leaving it burried as in that 'not there but there' sense.
This one didn't come out as well. She went from this sweet mellow finger picking to slamming the hell out of the guitar and I should have backed the mic's off a bit. Overall it's okay. Most of her songs are more along the line of the first one anyway.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Apr 26, 2004 10:32 pm No need to back the mics off, just a bit of compression to smooth it out. You should be able to fput a little compressionon it in Cubase. Although I thought it seemed to fit the mood of the song very well and didnt really seem all that out of control bashing wise. Some of the guys I have recorded are real bashers when it comes to acuastic and I really have to put the squeeze on it. Myself should be included in that as well, as I can get pretty hard on the acuastic.
Anyway, I loved it, differant from the other tune but still very well done. She sounds young yet with a mature, powerfull but sweet voice. And I agree the tune would benifit from the cricket/ambient outdoor noise thing as it would fit theme wise. And as you stated, a very undertoned sound should suffice. There, but not really there as you stated.
Again excellant job on the mix.
Apr 27, 2004 05:43 am Agreed on the mic placement.... i think it works well, despite the bashing at times. Was this the same mic setup as the other?
Can you give us the name of this girl please? I for one would love to hear some more stuff of hers. If you cant do it publicly (engineer's protocol and all that) then please PLEASE tell me by contacting me through my site ;)
I love both of these. All my comments for Leander apply to Firelight, by the way.
Apr 27, 2004 08:30 pm Thanks again noize2u and neuddsibly.
This was the same mic setup. With a lot more cutting with the EQ. Which is why I tell myself the placement didn't work for that song.
The artist is actually a very close friend of mine and wouldn't mind me telling you all. Her name is Tara Orion, I'm currently working on the website for her at www.taraorion.com that we will be finishing up this weekend. Unfortunatly those are the only two recordings that are not live (guitar direct off the board, yuk!) and well.. let's just say the previous engineer liked his reverb a little too much - yeah.. way too much. She is planning on heading into a studio this fall to cut her first EP if she can find the money.
Apr 28, 2004 03:06 am Excellent, thanks a lot for the info mate.
HuePinnipedal Czar (: 3= Member
Since: Apr 11, 2004
Apr 28, 2004 06:38 am Not much to say technicaly, but I'm compelled to compliment your client's voice... VERY nice !
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
May 06, 2004 10:53 pm mhubbard, with the sound you are getting I am thinking you should produce her EP. I dont see anything wrong with the final product you are producing at all. You could possibly run it by a mastering house for final touch up, but I think you have done a splendid job in capturing her live and from the sounds of the mp3's I dont see a reason you shouldnt cut all her tracks there.
vdalehubbardLost for words with all to say.Contributor
Since: Sep 12, 2003
May 07, 2004 06:37 am I agree, the sound is very good.
MauzgrrrrrrrMember
Since: Mar 29, 2004
May 12, 2004 02:55 am Very nice! I am in Italy and all they put on the radio and TV these days is this kind of stuff (though they are produced a bit more). They love acoustic with voice here.
I am wondering what kind of guitar and string guage did you record with. And what you did for room acoustics.
