Bob Dylan & Victoria Secrets?

> > > Bob Dylan & Victoria Secrets?

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I'm Roscoooo P. Coltrane
Member Since: Apr 12, 2003

Just seen Bob Dylan singing in a victoria secrets tv comercial. Thats a little weird. I don't really associate him with sexy models.

What do you guys think?

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Member
Since: Jan 08, 2003

Mar 30, 2004 08:01 pm

I think the point is that victoria's secrets products are sold to women, so they are marketed to women...

So we get to enjoy the result (and sometimes the advertising), but they aren't trying to sell that tiny weeny underwear to us here...

W.

I'm Roscoooo P. Coltrane
Member
Since: Apr 12, 2003

Mar 30, 2004 08:29 pm

I see your point but I really don't want to think of Dylan when I see a good looking woman!(LOL)

Chief Cook and Bottle Washer
Member
Since: May 10, 2002

Mar 30, 2004 10:08 pm

Now I'm bum! My last 60'esk hero sucking up corporate crumbs. I would have rather heard he was doing coke adds than fish wrap. Discusting!

I'm Roscoooo P. Coltrane
Member
Since: Apr 12, 2003

Mar 31, 2004 12:33 am

Walt, I agree. Dylan was the last one I'd picture doing that.

The fat one always watches us.
Member
Since: Nov 08, 2002

Mar 31, 2004 12:54 pm

will niel young give in? I THINK NOT!

I'm Roscoooo P. Coltrane
Member
Since: Apr 12, 2003

Mar 31, 2004 06:18 pm

I hope not, I've always respected Neil Young. I can't really see him giving in.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Mar 31, 2004 06:20 pm

Neil Young's music has been on a few commercials through the years...

Member
Since: Nov 21, 2002

Mar 31, 2004 06:45 pm

i have not lost any respect for bob dylan, gotta make money. that commercial was effective advertising, i now have the urge to go and buy some lacy undergarment :D

Chief Cook and Bottle Washer
Member
Since: May 10, 2002

Mar 31, 2004 09:34 pm

I'm sure you'd look better in it than Bob! :)

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Apr 02, 2004 10:17 pm

And just for note of record. It is not Neil Young songs in the commercials, they are Crosby, Stills and Nash tunes in the commercial's. Neil just happened to be part of the group that most peeps remember to this day. The tunes where penned by the CSN before Neil joined the band, so even though he played on them, they were sold by the record company who owns the rights to the CSN tunes.

And I agree, I dont think Neil will ever sell one of his own penned tunes for use in a commercial.

And thanx Walt, Now I have this mental image of Bob in a lacy purple Buostier. :-(

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Apr 02, 2004 11:20 pm

untrue, I am positive I have heard Rockin in the Free World used commercially at least once...but yes, CSNY have had several.

Besides, since when is it wrong to sell your songs for commercials? Money is money...some poeple get paid good money to come up with TV commercial jingles...

I'm Roscoooo P. Coltrane
Member
Since: Apr 12, 2003

Apr 03, 2004 01:30 am

Quote:
Besides, since when is it wrong to sell your songs for commercials? Money is money...some poeple get paid good money to come up with TV commercial jingles...

I see your point dB but don't you think there's a difference between music as art as opposed to commercial jingles? Especialy Neil Young & Dylan; these guys have based their entire careers on their anti-establishment beliefs. I don't see anything wrong with making money off your talent (if thats what you've set out to do) But when you've made yourself a leader in the anti-estab. movement most of your life, then turn around and join right in with it(the establishment) and say, "it's just a business deal"...don't you think thats a bit hypacritical of those types of people?

I'm sorry...but I have to make a distinction between Rockin' in a Free World & "My Bologna Has a First Name".

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Apr 03, 2004 05:37 am

Quote:
Especialy Neil Young & Dylan; these guys have based their entire careers on their anti-establishment beliefs...[]...don't you think thats a bit hypacritical of those types of people?

That's a fair point, I totally see that, however I can also say that my belief structure and opinions are vastly different now than when I was 20 years old. They have every right to do that as well without being labelled a "sell out". He probably also got said "Don't trust anyone over 30" back then too...well...I doubt he feels that way now. People in the spotlight are unfairly scrutinized by people that don't know them, how they feel or what they think. Did you ever think that back in the 60's and 70's they may have just been putting on an act to sell they records they did to the people they did? If so, it certainly worked.

Emerson's Transparent Eyeball
Member
Since: Jan 19, 2004

Apr 03, 2004 10:06 am

Have to agree with dB on this one. When I was younger I probably would have thought "How could he sell/lease the rights to that song? He sold out!" But it's more complicated than that. Now I think, hey, that's probably paying college tuition for his grandkids. After all, if making music is your job (and it is a job), should you not have the right to sell your wares as you see fit? Isn't that what free markets are about? I admit it's a little hard to reconcile that with the idea of artistic merit and integrity, but commercially produced music, for all it does and can do, is in the end a commodity. Presumably the people who frequent this site aren't always happy with that scenario ( I know I'm not), and that's why we're here. Also keep in mind that artists often don't even hold the rights to the music they make- case in point, Jacko and the Beatles.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Apr 03, 2004 12:03 pm

Thank you, drayburn, I usually get my butt kicked every time this type of topic comes up. I seem to have been the only one around here (or one of the few) that can appreciate the fact that to many people music is a business and make their decisions accordingly. It makes them no more or no less of a musician or an artist, it is just a different point of view.

I'm Roscoooo P. Coltrane
Member
Since: Apr 12, 2003

Apr 03, 2004 04:30 pm

drayburn & dB, your points are not without merit. I do understand that people change and grow as they walk through life(they should); it may sound ridiculous but when people connect with an artist, they begin to see the artist's songs, almost as a sermon. To them that artist is speaking to them--personaly. I realize that to much emphasis is put on the artist's actions. People try to make these "stars" godlike. Alot of fans expect their favorite singer, actor, etc... to be flawless. They expect them to live inside the mold created by the artist or the fan.{and thats something no one can always live up to}...were all human. We change, we grow ...and make mistakes. But I think theres something else that needs to be considered. The artist responsibility. Now this might get into idology and beliefs (but I really can't think of anything that doesn't). Anyway, shouldn't artist's see that people look to them; that their music and life become a symbol to fans. I mentioned Rockin in a Free World--A few years back, I was watching Neil Young sing this live. Most of the people in the audience was around his age. I was watching the reaction of the audeince more than Young. It was serious to alot of these people. It wasn't just a rock concert or a cool tune. It meant something to them. I don't mean to get heavy but to alot of people this is heavy. It might seem unfair to put these expectations on these particular artists but truth be told, they put it on themselves by coming out as anti-war & establishment activist in a painfull time in our history. Their involvement in these things are forever set in the minds of their fans. You may see your music in a different way but I can't possibly see my music as "product." And like I said, I feel there's nothing wrong with making money on your talent...Hey, I have no problem with money...I'm a conservitive after all ...but my problem is with artists who take songs that they have used to win the hearts of so many people and then use it for gain only. Don't you kinda think it nagates the whole reason why they wrote the song? Fine, write tv jingles...make a living, make millions, great! But please don't use something that means so much to your fans...the people who got you there. I'm not trying to pick a fight with you dB, just trying to express my point of view.

Thanks guys for hearing me out

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Apr 03, 2004 05:11 pm

Oh, no, I never thought you were trying to pick a fight, if I had I'd just ban you from the web site ;-) hehehe

Yes, the idolization and role model issue is valid with musicians, actors, athletes and all that, and I understand that. However I don't personally feel that person put himself in that position. Dylan, Young, CSN, Arlo Guthrie and many, many more came out for causes during a very turbulent time in history, now people like Korn are lashing out in new causes. The trend will go on and on...face it, there is ALWAYS something to ***** about. :-)

That said, to press a 50 or 60+ year old person to live up to a cause, lifestyle or political beliefs he held when he was 20 is highly unfair to that person. As you said, you SHOULD be a different person, if you are not something is wrong...life changes people, thats kinda the point...it's the beautiful travels of life. If you are not learning, changing and evolving as a person, you're wasting it. To withold that from someone just because of some juvenial idolization held back in the day is unfair to them...and you. I can honestly say I have heard no music in years that I feel is a "sermon" to me...it's all just beautiful music, often expressing thee artists feelings, which I appreciate as such, but hold no personal belief on it. When I was a teenager, sure, I took the songs as words to live by, but I have long since let go of it...even tho I still may think they are great songs.

To give someone the awesome responsibility of living up to role-model status because they can throw a ball, play a guitar or something like that is rediculas. If they thrive in that challenge, great, because a good role-model in that position could wield a lot of power, but to EXPECT that from someone in that position is unfair.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Apr 03, 2004 05:24 pm

My feelings expressed above is also way I get so pissed off when, back when I was young, bands like Judas Priest and Ozzy Osbourne got hauled in to court because some kid commited suicide while listening to a song of theirs. Or when AC/DC got hauled in to court because some wacked slasher was known to where an AC/DC hat...it is an insane responsibility to put on that band to try to make them take responsibility for what their fans do...it more shows that there are serious problems that person rather than the band.

The kid that killed himself while listening to Suicide Solution, for example, obviously never actually listened, since it's really about alcholism...

As sad as it is when anyone commits suicide (a friend of mine did just a couple months ago, it's something I have personally seen happen a lot), to blame anyone but that person is just parents (or some loved one) handling their greif in a very unhealthy way by trying to point the boney finger at someone else.

I don't think artists, actors and athletes need to change, I think society needs to re-evaluate the way these people are put on pedestals. They are good at making songs...so, I am good at programming on the web...Noize is good at hydraulic engineering.

Point is that everybody has a talent, why should any one be looked up to more than anyone else...

I'm Roscoooo P. Coltrane
Member
Since: Apr 12, 2003

Apr 03, 2004 07:13 pm

I do see what your saying but I wish life was as cut and dry as that. It can't possibly be that simple. Whether these "stars" want to admit it or not...they influence far more than just some depressed kid or serial killer. Those cases are obviously troubled without someones pushing them over. But I'm talk about walking the walk and talking the talk. If you say your this or that...do it!

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Apr 03, 2004 08:01 pm

Oh, no, I agree, they ARE influencing people. I never said they weren't, but I do not think they should be held accountable for the influence because the core of their "job" is not being that influence, it is to act, play a sport, write music or whatever, the influence is a byproduct...

My point is is SHOULD be that simple...it's a stupid society standard...the people who let themselves be influenced by celebrities in any capacity are giving people WAY to much power over them...

Chief Cook and Bottle Washer
Member
Since: May 10, 2002

Apr 03, 2004 11:41 pm

Oh goodness! This thread has definately went many miles. Actually what I have read and heard about Dylan, he has always been very astute to showmanship and making a buck. He also always claimed that he just wrote, sang, and played about what he whitnessed. If you saw a point in it all fine but maybe just not intended. And yes dB the juvinile kid in me is disipointed. And yes Bobby in pink panties is discusting. But hey he started out in Grenich Village. Maybe a name change wasn't the only change.

Sleeze on over slinkey....Slinkey sleeze on over to me!

I'm Roscoooo P. Coltrane
Member
Since: Apr 12, 2003

Apr 04, 2004 01:23 pm

I can't disagree with anything you said in your last post dB. I think we arrived at the same point...but from different directions. Take it easy dB.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Apr 04, 2004 06:53 pm

hehehe, often the way it works...all road lead to Rome :-)

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Apr 04, 2004 08:06 pm

And I will put my last two cents in here so you all dont think Im nuts. I truly better not have anything against music being used in commercials. I wouldnt have built this studio without some of that money from simple jingles and such as well as silly commercials. It is all about bussiness, and or how much of it you want. I would never think any worse of any artist for selling his tunes for a commercial, although I think some music just shouldnt be used to create a differant image then it was originally intended for. Like an anti-war song being used to sell basketball shoes masses. But again, it is money to be made, and I will not put someone down for making money anyway they can. Hell, I made tons of money re-arranging pop tunes for on-hold musac so I would be a real hypocrit to ***** about anyone making money from their music.

I am still not sure about the Neal Young tune in a commercial though. Although dB has a better memory then I do, so I may have to digress and bow to his word. Only after I have exhausted all searches for the dang commercial though. :-)


Member
Since: Dec 16, 2002

Apr 05, 2004 07:13 am

Bottom line, is it really any different signing up to sell millions of pieces of plastic to kids (mostly) in return for lots of cash compared to signing up to sell sexy underwear in return for lots of cash. Either way you're playing the big business game and boosting capitalism.

If you want to stay clean an pure, don't get signed to a majot label.

...And be prepared to remain in obscurity!

...bringing sexy back
Member
Since: Jul 01, 2002

Apr 05, 2004 11:47 am

lets face it, if anyone on here got offered a six figure sum for the use of their tunes right now, would any of us turn it down?

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Apr 05, 2004 11:48 am

hehehe, kinda my thought the WHOLE time...

...bringing sexy back
Member
Since: Jul 01, 2002

Apr 05, 2004 12:10 pm

exactly. any why should musicians who've actually made money be any different?

screw this struggling artist stuff, SHOW ME THE MONEY!

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Apr 05, 2004 12:15 pm

I lost the artsy-fartsy "it's all about the music" tree-huggin-hippy-crap-attitude years ago. There is money to be made in the industry whether it's writing, recording, producing, mastering or whatever...

Don't get me wrong, I still have the utmost respect for tree-huggin-hippies everywhere, I really do, it's admirable and respectable, I just don't subscribe to it. My time and energy goes to whatever will bring me the most financial reward. There are really only two exceptions to that rule, my kids and HRC...God help me, HRC has become PART of me by this point...stopping it would be like cutting off my leg...

...bringing sexy back
Member
Since: Jul 01, 2002

Apr 05, 2004 06:33 pm

hmmm, controversial...

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Apr 05, 2004 08:10 pm

I have the same problem. When I have to go camp with the boyz for the weekend, or god forbid the entire week, I get withdrawel symptoms.

But truth be told, this community has become so much a part of my day. I look forward to reading the emails to see what is going on, and hearing all the great new music coming from you guys. And the best joy comes from seeing the light go on when someone suddenly figures out how to make whatever they have work, or they get that final mix just right.

The world would be a lonely place without HRC.

Chief Cook and Bottle Washer
Member
Since: May 10, 2002

Apr 08, 2004 08:30 am

Just heard quite the little expose' on NRP this morning on this topic. Looks like this site is being watched by quite a few folks. NPR sited "posts" on the internet and quite a few of our comments where "word for word". Wish they would have given HRC accredations!

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Apr 08, 2004 08:38 am

Really? You should see if you can get a hold of the DJ and see if thats the case, thats really interesting.

Chief Cook and Bottle Washer
Member
Since: May 10, 2002

Apr 08, 2004 09:26 am

Yes it is. There is a very small probability that some other forum contained the exact same quotes, but pretty doubtfull. I'll see what I can come up with but NPR is so damn syndicated that it may be nye impossible. Could be some programed talking head for that matter.

The fat one always watches us.
Member
Since: Nov 08, 2002

Apr 08, 2004 09:38 am

Hey, this thread went nuts without me...
Niel young never sold any of his music for comercials. He even did that tune I dont play for bud, the video of which got pulled from mtv (because of Budwieser and others)but he still got the best video of the year award.
I would sell my stuff- if anyone would buy it. I used to say no-way, but now man oh man, if i could make money using "Falling" to sell parachutes i would in a heart beat.
Also i Love NPR. Life would be bland without it.
I am upset with dylan selling out- but hes old and his kid hates him, so money will have to be his friend and family.
I think that sums it up

> > > Bob Dylan & Victoria Secrets?

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