bad sounding drums

> > > bad sounding drums

Posted on

Member Since: Sep 27, 2003

i'm using an aardvark q10, a behringer multicom compressor, and cool edit pro. we've been micing the drums something like this: overheads: 2 shure pg-81, snare and toms: sm-57s, kick: some kick drum mic, i can't remember the name.

the problem is that nothing is sounding very good, especially the cymbals. they have a really tinny sort of sound to them. I've got the overheads together in front of the set each angled to one side like the article in the recording tips talked about. tom mics are about 7 inches off the skin, and the snare is about a foot and a half from the skin.

the compression settings are pretty mild for all the channels. the overheads are at about 2:1 with the threshold around -10 and the output up at +10 to make up for the gain reduction. they still don't sound very great even without compression, though.

everything sounds pretty warm and nice through the aardvark headphone output (i'm using these headphones service.bfast.com/bfast/c...mp;bfmtype=gear ). but when i playback from cool edit 2.0 everything has this weak, tinny sound. the aardvark is set at 44.1 khz but it can go up to 96 i believe. this didn't occur to me until i had already left my drummer's house last night so i haven't had a chance to test it, but would that help a lot?

it seems like from what i've got (ok compressor, high quality preamps, decent mics) i should be able to get a much better sound than i am. does anyone have any suggestions? maybe sound info is being lost somewhere during the A/D conversion and there's software settings i can change to make up for this. if you know anything that could help, please say so. it's getting to be kinda frustrating.

[ Back to Top ]


Bane of All Existence
Member
Since: Mar 27, 2003

Feb 12, 2004 09:53 am

if you can possibly borrow some overheads more suited to drums, you might be better off. put your tom mics WAY closer to the heads, and put the snare mic right next to the shell of the snare. instead of 7 inches, try 7 millimeters. you shouldn't need to compress your overheads or toms at all. the only time my overheads get compressed at all is when i'm compressing the entire drum bus (the stereo signal from all the drums mixed together). speaking individually, compress your snare and kick to your taste though. make sure to pan your overhead signals left and right, and get the levels all balanced. also, throw a noise gate on your toms and set it nicely to get the leakage out. i use the same mics you've got except AKG C1000S's as overheads and a Shure Beta 52 (not sure what yours is) RIGHT next to the beater inside the kick drum. i recently bought a boom extension to get right next to it, and it makes a massive difference. here is something i'm currently working on that uses these mics and the compression/gate settings i was talking about above:

www.minkusmaz.com/caposong.mp3

also...if you can, try inverting the phase on one of the overhead tracks and see if you're just having phasing issues.

I am not a crook's head
Member
Since: Mar 14, 2003

Feb 12, 2004 10:51 am

I have zero experience micing drums, but if everything is coming out weak and tinny, I'd suspect phase problems.

I can't imagine the complexities involved in getting more than 2 microphones in phase with each other! I think that the overheads especially would need to be placed such that they are recieving the signal in phase, which would involve lots of experimenting.

What does puzzle me is that it sounds good from teh soundcard out but not in CEP...I dunno what could happen to the signal to make it seem out of phase in one place but not the other...

a.k.a. Porp & Mr. Muffins
Member
Since: Oct 09, 2002

Feb 12, 2004 10:53 am

You need to work on the EQ. You always will, no matter how nice the drums are and how good the mics are. What you are hearing while you are recording (through the headphones) is the same thing you're hearing on Cool Edit pro-- The difference is in volume and in the leakage you are most likely getting from the set outside of the headphones.

Member
Since: Sep 27, 2003

Feb 12, 2004 11:13 am

yeah, no doubt there is some leakage, although the headphones do help a lot.

i don't think it's phasing because even when i solo any of the tracks, they still sound the same.

i know i'll have to do some EQing, and i think it would especially help the drums, but i think the cymbals might be beyond the help of EQ. i would really like for them to sound a bit better before i start EQing things to try and fix them.

minkus, i listened to your song and i dig it, and all those tracks sound great. i wish i could get a better set of overheads but we don't know anyone we can borrow from so we are limited to what we can buy, and after buying this aardvark and the mics and compressor and all that.. well we're broke =]

thanks for the input so far

a.k.a. Porp & Mr. Muffins
Member
Since: Oct 09, 2002

Feb 12, 2004 11:42 am

Keep in mind that things are going to sound difference once everything is tracked. I've managed to get even some old Zildjian ZBT's to sound decent with some EQ (and by making them less prominant in the mix-- keep volume down on the overheads). Just keep working at it and do the best you can with what you've got.

Bane of All Existence
Member
Since: Mar 27, 2003

Feb 12, 2004 05:19 pm

thank you dave. reviewing your post, i think your main problem might be the distance between the microphones and the drums that they are supposed to be picking up. when you have everything so far away, it's like 5 different eyes picking up the same image...it's bound to have phase problems. keep everything as close as possible without bumping it or the drummer smacking it. good luck!

oh as for phasing with the overheads, just make sure that they're the same distance away from the snare. use a string or something to measure it. don't worry about getting incredibly expensive mics yet though.

a.k.a. Porp & Mr. Muffins
Member
Since: Oct 09, 2002

Feb 12, 2004 05:32 pm

Yes-- definately measure the distance from the snare to the overheads. Don't worry about how the mics look (The placement may appear strange)-- it helps keep the snare sounding tight in the mix. Anywhere from 3-5 feet from the center of the snare is usually good.

Ex-Wookie
Member
Since: Aug 29, 2003

Feb 12, 2004 08:59 pm

Just so you know, you can only detect phase issues with 2+ mics. What the others are saying (god knows they have more knowledge then me) is very true. With the mics that far apart, especially on the toms/snare, it is wreaking havoc with what each mic picks up.

Another thing you can try with the overheads is to put them on either side of the kit way up. I have never tried this but have heard of people doing it quite a few times.

Member
Since: Sep 27, 2003

Feb 12, 2004 11:52 pm

ok, i worked long and hard tonight and we're really getting somewhere. i got the snare sounding magnificent by putting it real close (just about 2 inches, aimed just at the rim).

the overheads are sounding better, too. i took the peak limiter off completely and that seemed to help. i am running about 1.5:1 compression with the threshold around +5 db and about +5 output to get the high hat and ride bell to stand out some more. i still get some clipping on the crash when he's really banging it but maybe just turning down the overall volume would stop that.

i upped the aardvark to 96 khz, and although i can't really tell if this helped, i can't see how it would hurt. but in cool edit i can't figure out how to change the sample rate when using multitrack mode. if anyone can help with this, i would appreciate it. upping the aardvark doesn't seem to help much if cool edit is stuck in 44.1.

i'm sure most of the improvement is due to better mic placement and more care in using compression. thanks to all of you that helped me out. we were pulling out considerably less hair tonight.

Bane of All Existence
Member
Since: Mar 27, 2003

Feb 13, 2004 12:07 am

cool, but 96KHz CAN actually hurt you by sucking up twice as much disk space. if you don't want to worry about disk space, that's fine, but at this point, you wouldn't notice a real difference between 44.1 and 96 (neither would i). seriously though...wait on the compression with the overheads and put it on the kick and snare instead. afterwards, put some compression on the whole drum mix to bring out the dynamics that you want.

do some reading...john vestman has some good mic'ing, drum setup, and compression tips. keep in mind that he's speaking about it as if you're going to bring it to a mastering facility, but also keep in mind that this approach is excellent so that you don't poison the mix before you do your own pseudo-mastering phase:
johnvestman.com/

also check out this article on HRC and the articles that it links to:
www.homerecordingconnecti...story&id=84

ahh! to read is to learn is to record better!

> > > bad sounding drums

Related Forum Topics:


If you would like to participate in the forum discussions, feel free to register for your free membership.