Jan 21, 2004 02:04 pm thats why i started with this whole home studio thing in the first place...so that IM in charge...
The Re-Record
Posted on Jan 21, 2004 01:59 pm
Karetaker
Member Since: Dec 23, 2003
In June of 2002 my band decided to start putting money back to cut a cd. Six months later we had a decent amount of money saved and found a studio. We went in and checked it out, it was very nice and close to home. They had an elaborte Pro-Tools set up, so we would give this whole digital recording thing a try. We had them play us some of their recordings and they sounded really professional and well produced. We didn't want to commit to doing the whole cd. We decided to record 2 songs and see how they came out.
I was pretty excited about the whole thing. I had never recorded in a real studio before. I had been recording for many years, but it was just demos. I couldn't wait to get into a studio with an experienced engineer and see what I was doing wrong, what I was doing right, and learn some new techniques.
My band is pretty experienced. Everybody has at least two decades of playing under their belt. We picked our best two songs and went into record them. I watched carefully as the engineer positioned the mics for the drum kit. He put the overheads in place and I never saw him move them. Is this guy that good I was thinking. Whenever I set up overheads I have to move them at least several times until I get them right. Oh well, it was his studio so what did I know. We laid down scratch tracks and stated to record our parts. Our drummer laid down his part. The drums just didn't sound good to me. The engineer told me not to worry about it.... we'll eq them later. I laid down the bass. He said it sounded great! It had WAY to much low end in it! But, everything was there so I figured we'd just eq that out later. Our guitarist was doing this acoustic part in one of our songs. I watched the engineer set up the mic in front of his guitar and then never move it. Then the engineer started having my guitarist move forward and back, and lean his guitar in and out until he was satisfied with the sound. I offered to go into the booth and move the mic, which to me made more sense than moving the guitarist. The engineer said no that's ok, we've got it. I looked through the glass at my guitarist. His guitar was tilted in and he looked very uncomfortable with it. I asked him if he was going to be able to play this way.... he said he was OK, that it was a short part and he should be fine. Time and time again I saw this engineer do things that just made no sense to me. This was no part timer here, this was his full time gig.
Anyway, we got everything laid down and started working on the mix. My guitarist and I are the "sound guys" of the band. So, it was just him I and the engineer working on the mix. We sarted with the drums... they sounded like hell to me. We got them sounding half decent, all execpt the snare. After too much wasted time we replaced the snare. On to the bass. He pumped it up and it was shaking the room. Ok, if we were a rap band maybe this would be alright.... but, we're a hard rock heavy metal kind of band. The engineer thought the bass sounded great. It was devouring the kick and making the mix sound terrible. I was being polite about the whole thing... asking if he could thin out the bass a little. Things went on and on like this thoughout the entire time. We got it mixed to a point and burnt off some rough mixes to take home and listen to. How did it sound? It was terrible! I couldn't believe that we were paying $45 an hour and I was turning out better sounding demos with my Tascam 8-track reel to reel. I was so dissapointed, and the old wallet was getting lighter by the day. We went back night after night to work on the mix. The guy cut us a tremedous break on time. I don't think he charged us for half the time we actually had in it. After too many hours, too much money, and far too much agravation, I realized that this recording was never going to sound good. We didn't book anymore time and just let the project sit for a couple of months. The engineer remixed it on his own time and it did sound better. But, it sounded bad at it's best.
It was time to get back to work on the cd project though. We went shopping for a new studio. We took a trip down to Right Coast Recording in Columbia PA. This place is like a vintage gear museum. We had already made our minds up that we wanted to record in analog and this was the place. We booked time and went in to record two songs. I learned more from the engineer at Right Coast in one hour than I did from the other guy in a month. Again, it was my guitarist, the engineer and I doing the mixing. It went smooth and quick and sounds unbelievable! It's nice recording in a studio with gold and platinum records hanging on the wall. Plaque's from bands like 38 Special, Van Halen, Tina Turner and Billy Joel.
So... we booked more time next week. We are going to go back in and re-record the two songs we did in the first studio. That was $1,600 down the tubes. But, we certainly can't include them on the disc with the other songs.
Live and learn
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Jan 21, 2004 02:04 pm thats why i started with this whole home studio thing in the first place...so that IM in charge...
Jan 21, 2004 02:31 pm That's why I'm buying up gear Flame... The next cd I'll be recording myself. With what I have now I can't get near the quality that we are getting at Right Coast.
Jan 21, 2004 02:36 pm Ya know, studios often have many engineers goin in and out of the place. A few years back I recorded a CD with my band, and some friends of our went to the same studio, had a different engineer and it sucked. Our recording was greta, done by a pro, their sounded like crap done by a jerk that had to do everything HIS way...
It's not the studio or the gear, it's the dudes running it...
Jan 21, 2004 02:44 pm Do you have any info on right coast? Like a website or something?
Also, this pro-tools studio... was it in PA as well? If so, did it happen to be decapolis labs?
Jan 21, 2004 02:44 pm I concur dB. Give me a good engineer with an armful of 57's and an 8-track over a bad engineer in a state of the art studio any day.
We're real happy with where we are recoding now. It's pricey, but well worth the money.
Jan 21, 2004 02:45 pm Quote:
Give me a good engineer with an armful of 57's and an 8-track over a bad engineer in a state of the art studio any day.
Amen Brotha!
Jan 21, 2004 02:48 pm Here's the link for Right Coast www.rightcoastrecording.com/Fhome.htm
That studio was in PA... but, it wasn't decapolis labs. I think that with more time under his belt that engineer maybe OK. He's just not there yet, or at least he wasn't there yet when we recorded.
Jan 21, 2004 02:52 pm So are you guys from PA? What's your bands name?
Jan 21, 2004 02:55 pm That bands name is Steel www.steelrocks.com
Yep... We are from PA
Right now we are giggin' lightly to record. We are going in to do some songs and then we are going to update our demo. We took all of Feb. off for recording, and we'll gear back up in Mar & April.
Jan 21, 2004 02:58 pm I think I may have heard of you...
And now I'm even more excited... Dave Natale was a friend of my dad's that my mom and I have been trying to track down for years!
Jan 21, 2004 03:01 pm Too cool. Yeah Dave is a pretty talented guy! When we were recording I think he was just heading out to mix for Yes... live that is.
Jan 21, 2004 03:07 pm That doesn't supprise me at all!
Haha, I was so into yes back in the day...
Jan 21, 2004 03:37 pm Did I really just use "back in the day..."?
Jan 21, 2004 05:24 pm I was sixth row right in front center for the Yes 9012Live tour...jeez that rocked...Yes is awesome...and ya, THAT was "back in the day"
Jan 21, 2004 05:47 pm I have a video of 9012Live. That was when Trevor Rabin was playing guitar, right? Good stuff.
Jan 21, 2004 06:11 pm Yeah, that was Rabin, the guy who now writes scores for dozens of movies and stuff...
Geez, that had to be before your were even alive dude...I think I was a junior in high school at that time...half my life ago...
Jan 21, 2004 09:15 pm Yes, Yes rocks. Trevor Rabin rocks as well.
Karetaker, checked out your site, very nice. I liked checked out the 3 mp3 samples you have of your original stuff and again, nice stuff. Cant wait to hear what you guys do in the studio.
Added you bands site to the links section here under bands and music.
Just curious, but checkin out the pics you guys have up, are you playing a BC Rich by chance in some of them? As well, your rig looks like a nice set up as well.
And yes indeed, that is why most of us started building project or larger studios. The madness at times to get someone to record the way you want is pitifull. That was the main reason I started learning and building long ago.
Jan 21, 2004 10:26 pm "Geez, that had to be before your were even alive dude...I think I was a junior in high school at that time...half my life ago..."
That was 1985. I was alive. Barely.
Jan 22, 2004 04:18 am oh man...I graduated in 85...barely...
Jan 22, 2004 01:00 pm Thanks Noize... I really appreciate that.
Yup, the bass is a 1984 B.C. Rich Bich. I just had the old girl refretted. My rig is a 1976 Sunn Concert bass head and 2x15 cab. I had to give up my first car for that Sunn rig..... but that's a whole nother story.
Thanks again Noize!
Jan 22, 2004 01:02 pm I had a cheapo Warlock model until the neck warped, I got pissed and hucked it at the couch and broke it to pieces about 15 years ago. Still have the body tho...my sister painted a mermaid on it, it's kinda cool.
Jan 22, 2004 01:12 pm I have a cheapo Warlock too dB. I use it as a backup bass. I hate that bass! When I was having the Bich refretted I had to use it for several gigs. I hated every minute I have to play that thing.
I was looking at buying a Ken Smith Elite bass. I played one and that thing was great!! Of course so was the price tag! I'll just keep playing my Bich for now.
Jan 22, 2004 01:14 pm Warlock basses are WAY too top heavy, my fretting arm gets tired just holding the damn thing up! My old Gibson Explorer bass was that way too...man was that a great sounding bass tho...
Jan 22, 2004 01:25 pm in '85 I was still in the belly
I MUST be the Youngest around here..
Geez
Jan 22, 2004 01:25 pm I love the sound of my Bich... But, it's the same way, Very top heavy! If I let go of the neck the headstock almost goes down to the floor! Whenever I need extra support I put my leg in the cutout. People at gigs think I do it for show, but I'm doing it for support. The balance on those old B.C. Rich basses is very poor I must say. All that weight in your fretting hand slows you down too. That's why I've addapted the leg in the cutout stategy. I've just been playing the thing so long I'm used to it.
The mistake I made when checking that bass out was that I was sitting down for the play test. I was young and didn't know any better. It was fine when I was sitting down in the music store. When I got the thing home and threw my stap on it... The Bich became a whole different animal. Now when I play test I try it both sitting and standing with a strap. I won't be making that mistake again.
Jan 22, 2004 01:29 pm In '85 we opened for Kix on their Midnight Dynomite tour. That gig was a blast... Man I feel old!
Jan 22, 2004 02:54 pm hey what a coincidence
Kix is from my area. Martinsburg and Hagerstown are just down the road from me. In fact my brother's dad (my mom's first marriage) was one of their early drummers before they got big. He went off in the Marines while the band went on to make a name for themselves.
and I dunno about B.C. Rich basses, but their guitars are awfully heavy. I have a Warlock 6 string and the thing is just cumbersome.
And check this out... I bought the Warlock from my brother's uncle (the ex-drummer's brother)!!
Jan 22, 2004 09:22 pm I thought it was a Bich, but the pics on our site were a bit darkish and I was tired so I didnt want to guess. Agreeing with the heavy part, I bought a Rich Bich 6 string when they first came out, sold it two weeks after I got it as I couldnt play it standing up and it almost killed me. And ya, I know all about giving things up for instruments. I traded my vintage jag/stang in 1979 for a custom made guitar built to resemble a Firebird. It was neck through, carved for a solid piece of wood, and was so thin you could bend the neck and get a drop as low as a whammy in those days. Well almost. It had custom wound pickups and one of a kind paint job, and he even logoed the thing FireBitch as it was painted Burgandy Fire Mist.
And lets see, what was I doing in 85.
Oh ya, I was all but retired from playing live save for a guest spot here and there. And just starting to rebuild the recording rig. Also got back into just being a hired gun roaming from studio to studio. I dont remember exactly, but I think Kix opened for us on an east coast sweep as our opening band failed to show. Not sure, as those days are but a faded memory now, or maybe just a blur. :-)
Jan 23, 2004 06:06 am This whole story sums up why it's better for those with limited funds to spend their cash on equipment rather than buying pro studio time.
Even if you go off recomendation of people for a good studio, you may end up with a rookie engineer and a rubbish result.
If you buy up equipment and spend time learning the craft of recording you can:-
1.achieve some excellent results - (some people's home recordings I've heard end up better than so called pro studios)
2. record whenever you want to/are in the mood/feel inspired to (what happens if you're not in the best frame of mind on the day you booked the studio?)
3. get money back on equipment when you trade it in (money spent on a pro studio is gone forever, dead money)
4. Have time learn how to use your equipment to get the very best from it artisticly, rather than having to go through an interpreter (the engineer) to try to get the result you want
5. freedom to experiement without watching the clock (mike positioning, drum sound, vocal performances, etc)
5. Record as many demos as you want to without worrying about the clock ticking away
6. Re-do any part if you later feel it wasn't the best without it costing you a fortune
7. In the long term, once you've made the initial investment, have more cash available to promote your music, rather than spending it on recording studio fees
If I had big funds or major label backup of course I'd go into a pro studio, but if I had even more money I'd have my own pro studio installed!!
Jan 23, 2004 06:43 am glynb, you forgot the most important plus of home recording:
8. it's a ton of fun!
Jan 23, 2004 07:18 am and you can always get chicks around your house by telling them 'youve got a beautiful voice, why not come to my studio'
allegedally...
Jan 23, 2004 07:30 am and we wonder why there's no females here. y'all scarin 'em all away!
Jan 23, 2004 07:42 am wait until they see my picture...
Jan 23, 2004 08:02 am ooh yeah. hey remember i wanted to take a stab at that? i thought we could croip off her head and avoid blurrying her out.
k, thread hijacked..
::hands it back over::
Jan 23, 2004 11:55 am Hehehe.... Never bothered me when someone hijacks a thread. I always find it interesting how they go off in ten different directions.
Actually Kix is doing some reunion gigs. They are playing to packed houses. Steve Whiteman has been giggin' all along with a band called "Funny Money".
For those of you who don't remember Kix... They were famous for 15 minutes. You probably blinked and missed it. They had the number 1 video on MTV with a song called "Don't Close Your Eyes". They were a fun band to gig with though. You could always count on a ton of pretty girls at the gig.
Speaking of pretty girls.... Tonight we are doing a gig with a band called Back In Black... An AC/DC tribute band. Even if you can't stand AC/DC those gigs are always fun. Lots of women, lots of flesh, lots of fun. They used to have a wet-Tshirt contest at this club... and guess who got to be one of the judges for the last one. That was a good time for sure.
Jan 23, 2004 05:24 pm I still have a Kix album on vinyl. And yes they were a good band as far as Im concerned. Pretty girls, yes indeed I remember that well. All I get now are cheerleaders who want dance mixxes done for next to nothing.
AC/DC tribute band, I wish we had one here. My 14 year old is really getting into them. He is still getting into just about everything, most I like, some is bit much but the day I start calling it rubbish is the day I hang up my headphones. And K, I havent seen a good wet T-shirt contest for way too many years.
And it does seem that almost every thread on this site gets hijacked at least breifly, and I too love to see were some of them go.
Jan 24, 2004 04:58 pm Vinyl???? What's that?
Hehehe... just kidding Noize. You must be at least as old as I am. Of course I had more 8 tracks than vinyl.
Unfortunatly no wet T-shirt contest broke out last night. We did have a good time though.
Jan 25, 2004 07:11 pm I still have the 8's as well. Not as many as the vinyl but a few. Only one player left working though now.
Bummer on the no wet t-shirt contest, oh well maybe next time.
Age wise, I got to see the Doors and Jimi Hendrix before the Jims passed away.
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