whoah! PLEASE tell me this will work in Sonar 3...

Posted on

Member Since: Jan 03, 2004

I just found a piece of software (I hope) that will remove a large chunk of my requirements in a new keyboard purchase, provided it'll operate in Sonar 3. It's a virtual instrument by EastWest Sounds.

Here's a link:

www.soundsonline.com/soph...html?sku=EW-157

It says under compatability that it'll work with ASIO, MME, DXi2, VST, etc.

I intend to use WDM drivers.

Will this plugin work for me in Sonar 3. PLEASE say yes because this is EXACTLY what I've been looking for!

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Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Jan 04, 2004 05:58 am

If you are going to use Sonar 3 and an M-Audio Audiophile it will be in your best interest to use ASIO. It will provide MUCH lower latency...I mean MUCH LOWER!

And yes, that will work in Sonar...regardless of driver you choose. (which I still highly recommend ASIO)

Member
Since: Jan 03, 2004


Jan 04, 2004 04:18 pm

Ok that just made my day! Lol. Thanks.

Ah, so the myth that WDM offers the lowest latency in Cakewalk software isn't true aterall? everyone (including the cakewalk website) keeps saying they recommend WDM for the lowest latency. I suppose it depends but I HAVE seen ALOT of posts sayihg to usen ASIO with M-Audio products in tandem with sonar 3 so I'll listen to you! lol.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Jan 04, 2004 05:21 pm

Yeah, people really seem to push WDM, but I have been this a long time, and so far nothing beats ASIO...

Member
Since: Jan 03, 2004


Jan 04, 2004 05:27 pm

I'm gonna trust the people who have helped me most ...meaning you guys lol. So thanks (yet again) :)

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Jan 04, 2004 05:31 pm

Thanks, glad we've earned your trust, but, it's only my opinion...when you get the card and Sonar, you can try both and see what gives you the best performance.

I have the Audiophile with SOnar 3 on an AMD 2400+ Athlon XP with a gig of RAM and my ASIO latency is about 10 milliseconds, with WDM O forget exactly what it was but it was up in the neighborhood of 90 milliseconds...and all that is with Sonars default wave profiling of the sound card...

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Jan 04, 2004 05:52 pm

Nice find bensf, I gotta get me that bad boy. And yes indeed it will work for ya in Sonar.

And the WDM vs ASIO thing comes more from the fact that Cakewalk has their software geared to run higher performance with WDM on certain machines. Those of us with high performance sound cards will not benifit from it as ASIO runs better in Sonar for us. The audio engine in Sonar will optimize a low level audio interface to run better with its WDM drivers then it would with standard MME or that type driver. They did do a good job of making it run great with lower dollar cards but like I said, higher end cards run better with ASIO.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Jan 04, 2004 05:54 pm

Well, in all fairness, it hard to find a driver that would not run better than MME/DirectSound... :-D

I could prolly write a driver in QBasic that would work better than MME...lol

jeez, I gotta get off these forums I'm in the studio and have work to do...I have bills to pay, everyone please stop posting so I can concentrate...LOL

Member
Since: Jan 03, 2004


Jan 04, 2004 07:37 pm

Lmao. You need to work, and I need to sleep! I caught a nap earlier but this is all too exciting and it even haunts my dreams now. (I get -way- too into whatever I'm doing or planning to do at any given time. I sometmes even write whole songs in dreams, wake up, and remember how to play them lol)

10 ms...have I been out of the loop THAT long? That seems astronically low to me. But then I probably owe much of that to optimizations in Windows 2000 and XP.

either way, I'll take it! lol

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Jan 04, 2004 07:43 pm

dB and I went to a seminar on Sonar 3 and the guy had it running at 5ms on a laptop. I ran it at 8ms on a PIII 667 with 768meg of ram. And I have seen it run at about 1.5 ms on machines of the 2.1 gig and above variety.

Just for yucks I will tell you that even Sonar 2.2 runs at 8ms on the 667, and I have gotten a Sound Blaster to run at about 13ms on the same box using their audio engine accelerator.

Member
Since: Jan 03, 2004


Jan 04, 2004 07:47 pm

....

.....

O_O

*ben tries to come up with a snazzy reply*

1.5ms? where's the challenge in THAT?

j/k lol.

Member
Since: Jan 18, 2003


Jan 04, 2004 10:38 pm

i've heard good things about that vst. don't you need to buy kontact to run it though, first?

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Jan 04, 2004 11:30 pm

Nope, it is a VSTi or DXi and it will run stand alone if need be. It uses the same audio engine as Kontakt though.

Bohemian
Member
Since: May 04, 2003


Jan 05, 2004 05:43 am

Maybe a dumb question but where can you see what your latency is I never had trouble recording whatsoever But now I'm curious

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Jan 05, 2004 05:50 am

depends on the program, but it's usally in the audio hardware configuration window(s) somewhere...

Bohemian
Member
Since: May 04, 2003


Jan 05, 2004 06:19 am

In sonar 2

I go to options and than Audio and it says
I have 100.0 ms effective latency at 44khz/stereo

that's too much isn't it?

I've never had problems recording though^o)

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Jan 05, 2004 07:01 am

Yeah, that is quite a lot, hell, my old Sound Blaster AWE64 gold got about that in 1996 :-)

Using the PC's stock card I am guessing?

Bohemian
Member
Since: May 04, 2003


Jan 05, 2004 07:19 am

good guess

just a soundblaster :shame:

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Jan 05, 2004 07:20 am

Hey, if it does the job for ya, it's all good.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Jan 05, 2004 05:05 pm

Presley, what drivers are you running, and are you in WDM with Wavepipe acceleration running? If not Ill steer ya to it when I get back from boy scouts tonight.

bace135 in the house tonight!
Member
Since: Jan 28, 2003


Jan 05, 2004 09:08 pm

man, I listened to the sample mp3 and that thing is pretty sweet. I'd really like to get my hands on some more realistic instrument samples libraries like this. Oh well, for now I must be happy with this new adventure called soft synths.

Member
Since: Jan 03, 2004


Jan 05, 2004 09:30 pm

Yeah I'm one of Tori Amos' many rabid fans (er...ears with feet I mean...don't want to elicit anyone's wrath) and I listen pretty intently to anything I listen to...and that sounded pretty DAMN close to the real thing. There's a couple points where it sounds 100% authentic. And given all the parameters, it shouldn't be hard to get it to sound even closer.

But I've loved the way those pianos sound for a long time. When I was little this old lady named Mrs. Mon my Dad knew from his days in Vietnam had this huge like, I dunno, some form of housing that's too grandiose for me to even know the name of lmao. And she had one of those big emperor grands and I remember calling it a "bowserdwarfer" LOL! I couldn't pronounce it but man I don't know if it was just 'cause it was my first exposure to a real grand piano's sound or what, but those things just sound unlike any other piano.

There will always be the Steinway vs. anything else debate and I think both sound awesome personally. But for me nothin beats a Bosey sound. I mean the things ALMOST sound metalic. Likethey have a built in plate reverb or something lol. But still delicate. Not clangy.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Jan 06, 2004 06:02 pm

A Bosendorfer woudl be my prefered unit as well. I have played on many Grands and the Bosey just has a warmer sound. Very easy to play, I too am a Tori fan and love the sounds she gets. I have been lucky enough to play on several differant boseys and they all have that distinctive sound, smooth mellow, yet like you said, kind of metalic at the same time. I believe it is the way the hammers attack the strings in the bosey that illicit that sound, dont know for sure but I do know that was the main reason I paid $1200.00 in the early 90s for an ISA card called SampleCell 2. They had a 32 meg bosey piano sample that absolutely blew my mind. I have used it alot, but alas the ISA slot is no longer used. Although I have thought about not building a box to run the legacy card, I may break down yet and do it.

Oh well nuff ramblin.

Member
Since: Jan 03, 2004


Jan 06, 2004 07:51 pm

Y'know if all you want to do is run that you could probably get a decent pc that would run it for under 200. (as if I need to tell you that lol). They also have some boards (rare) that have ISA/PCI slots that will accept both cards. If you're gonna do it though you should do it before PCI Xpress becomes the new standard, because then old PCI or AGP will probably replace the single ISA slot that still appears on most boards. (I probably don't need to tell you that either though lol)

It's gonna be weird for peoples' high-end AGP 8x cards to be considered "legacy" soon lol.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Jan 06, 2004 09:09 pm

I have one sitting here just aching to be turned on again. Its just the fact that I am trying to keep from doing it. As it really would be just another box full of fans running in here for just the simple sampler. And truth be told, I use Sonar with Project 5 and they have killer soft samplers in both apps, so I am really trying to use less hardware and make better use of the software. But I still am having ahard time letting go.

Bohemian
Member
Since: May 04, 2003


Jan 07, 2004 09:44 am

Jup I'm in WDM and wavepipe acceleration

what I don't get is
that I can control what latency I have or something:S
with the slider on the bottom of the
General tab
then on the bottom it says Mixing Latency

and then I can change it :S

Member
Since: Jul 02, 2003


Jan 07, 2004 02:13 pm

I don't think it's really a latency setting, probably a buffer setting. Cards with more latency will need a larger buffer.

Dan

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002


Jan 07, 2004 06:19 pm

Yup, its a buffer setting, as you bring it to the left it reduces the buffer and inturn reduces the latency. But as the buffer gets smaller the chance of distortion grows with track count (audio) so you have to find a happy medium.

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