Jan 01, 2004 12:00 pm try moving the mic further away from the guitar, this should reduce the proximity effect and give you a "smoother" sound to play with.
also, fyi: boom happens quite a lot around 200-350Hz.
jues.
acoustic upright boom boom
Posted on Jan 01, 2004 11:57 am
Dale Bryan
Member Since: Dec 28, 2003
I play an upright bass jazz style (finger pluck i think is called pizzacatto?). Anyway I have ben using an AT 3060 which makes my acoustic sound like it's old martin or something, but on the bass...boom boom _________boom boom. That's all you hear is low stuff that should get cut anyway but as soon as you cut there is no bass left. Can you help me with the eq of such a strange beast. I have been micing it at the f-hole or a few inches away from the bridge.How can I get volume in the mix without blowing the speaker cones off their magnets? Hope this question makes sense.
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Jan 01, 2004 12:00 pm try moving the mic further away from the guitar, this should reduce the proximity effect and give you a "smoother" sound to play with.
also, fyi: boom happens quite a lot around 200-350Hz.
jues.
Jan 01, 2004 12:06 pm sounds intreesting dude, what kindsa thing you recording with that?
Jan 01, 2004 04:25 pm well I play mostly jazz kind of stuff, but some bluegrassy stuff too. believe it or not I am in the process of "Maggot Brain" by P-Funk. Crazy bass line that one would think needs a fend. p-bass and some crazy effects but a natural upright (mine anyway) gets some really funky "micro-tones" (for lack of a better term)or false harmonics that really add to the spaces between the characterisic choppy guitar licks associated with funk. It's a blast to play, sounds awesome, but when it comes to live or recording applications...well jsut listen to an old miles davis recording or something during a bass solo. I wonder why everybody has to stop playing while he takes his time in the light. When I put the mic farther away I loose those great coloring tones that nobody can hear specifcally but can really change the enitre sound or feel of a song. It's like this...if you hit the string at a 45 degree angle you get a nice soft swelling kind of sound that seems to increase in volume as the note is held, while if you hit it at 90 degrees you get a very sharp sound that fizzles out a lot quiker. you get the idea and probably knew that anyway, but like I said it's those little micro-tones that my recording misses and picks up way too many of the booms. sorry for the ramble
Jan 01, 2004 07:10 pm try double mic'ing them then
one mic real close up and another further back - then just roll off the real low end of the close up mic.
jues.
Jan 02, 2004 12:47 pm that "Maggot Brain" by P-Funk...is that the tune thats a huge 10 minute guitar solo? i love it, if thats the one im thinking of...
Jan 02, 2004 01:56 pm www.shure.com the microphone company has some good PDF articles on stringed instrument micing. www.talkbass.com also is a forum where upright micing techniques are discussed. Personally, I like a cartoid patterned condenser pointing down slightly at the bottom of the fingerboard at around 4 inches from the wood, with a second mic angled toward one f-hole. I blend them to get resonance and clarity. The other [big] problem with upright is room size. The upright creates wave lengths that make any small room part of the instrument. The mics pick up all kinds of out of phase, blooming, distorted composit signal. Experiment with larger rooms, more sound baffels etc.
The other thing I am reading into your post, and I appologize if this is incorrect, is that you may be novice (please take no offense) at the upright bass. Yes pizacatto is correct (that was my clue). Upright bassists roll the strings per their large physical mass. You might consider looking into right hand technique for the upright if you have not already. I admire the artist that you have sited as a reference for sound quality. That artist is a very good and high asperation. The insides of his fingers probably resemble a foot as well.
Also, look into fishman pickups and pre amps. These may open you up to some very nice direct injection signal options.
Jan 02, 2004 06:17 pm do you play upright bass walt? ive always fancied doing something with one of those in...
Jan 02, 2004 08:12 pm And exactly what did you want to do with it Flame? When I played it in school my dad always wanted to take it fishing. Thought it would be a great boat. And yes, I am ready to admit that I play one again. Been a long time, but I picked up an electronic upright about a year ago and I can say that my chops are back enough to say I play it. I have always loved the instrument, but bass getfiddle is a lot easier in many ways. Easier to afford, easier to haul to gigs, easier to physicaly play, etc. But definately two totally different cats. I really missed the upright. It is just so full and rich sounding. Hard to explain.
Jan 02, 2004 09:48 pm So you are saying you are ready to play that EUB soon? I smell an internet jam session almost brewing here. Flame, I think you would be good in a fusion jazz piece.
Jan 02, 2004 11:55 pm Ya, sure! The Count is finally starting to talk to me. Took awhile to build a relationship you know. Let me know what you have in mind.
Jan 03, 2004 01:29 am Same with my Studio Logic controller. I am finally starting to get comfortabel with it and play it as if it were a piano. I got so used to playing semi-weighted keys that I forgot how to touch a heavy full piano weighted keyboard. But patiance has paid off, and I am not skittish when I touch it anymore. I can hammer on it as if it were one of my old keyboards and feel good about it now.
funny how instruments are like that though, when they are brand new, your almost afraid to touch them.
Ive had some strange progresions going through my head as of late, very odd key changes and such. Maybe I just need to sit down and hit record and let them out and see what comes of it.
Ill keep ya posted Walt.
Jan 03, 2004 11:31 am Sounds real good!
I'll keep on turning my hands into feet. Like you say, it's odd but once you find your new friends voice it's hard to stay away!
Jan 03, 2004 11:40 am Indeed, now that the Juno is gone I am becoming real friendly with the controller. Now I just gotta start getting to know all the soft synths and find one to replace them warm fuzzy I used to get with the Juno.
Jan 03, 2004 11:53 am you are right walt that I am a novice (beginner may be a better word actually) bass player (no offense takin at all) that moved from being a jazz guitar player. I just can't get my hands to make those big chords move that fast so I switched to doublebass. I have heard people talk about rolling their fingers on the bass and I assumued that to mean that it is your left hand that is rolling back and forth causeing the vibrato kind of sound to deal with the fact that it is a fretless inst. After about six months of practice my left hand has finally gotten a decent handle on what sounds good pushed against the fret board but actually setting the string in motion is completely differant. I have begaun using my index finger at about 45 degrees and I more just swing my hand and hope than anything. That's the other problem is the volume, you've got to really hit that big *** string hard for anyone to hear. anyway, it is a beautiful instrument that has got to be one the easiest to pick up but one of the hardest to perfect. detramental blessing
Jan 03, 2004 02:08 pm Easiest to pick up? seems kinda heavy!
i was learning upright bass all last year, my school had 2 nice old basses from the 60's that the music teacher completely refurbished by hand, i played jazz/bluegrass style too, had little interest in bowing, i didnt own one, so i used to cut class and hang out in the band room and practice/jam with whoever else was there. I havent touched one in months, but i didnt find it easy to pick up at all. I play a fretless electric bass, and have big hands, still it took a few months before i could get decent intonation past the 5th fret. Now i have the urge to start playing again, its an awesome instrument, but easy to pick up? not for me. I think that the EASIEST instrument to pick up, yet very hard(not gonna say hardest) to master, is piano.
Jan 04, 2004 01:33 pm Wow guys, I am tempted to start a tutitorial, but quite frankly I would be inept.
First things first. It is not a guitar. I can gurantee you will go much further if you preceive it as an entirely new instrument. If you read, there are transferable skills inherant to that activity. There are also transferable skills per placement of intervals on the fingerboard. However the general technique is totally different!
Dale, I truely ment right hand. Developing vivarato with the left hand is a very good advanced technique to aquire and I am glad to hear you are getting it, however, first there are more basic techinque differences to achieve if you are going to progress. It's the old "good foundation" thing. A poor foundation can take you only so far before problems arise. This can be illusive as you can go a way before problems start to arise. The bass guitar is "plucked" much like a guitar. Right hand perpendicular to the strings. An upright string is "rolled" fingers parallel to the strings. I picture would help a lot here. The best advice ever given to me is get at least a couple of sessions with a trained double player to get you started in the right direction. Well worth the cost. Although there are some who advocate one finger per half step interval on the upright, I am a staunch believer in the "two half step per position" left hand approach, where the 4th and little finger travel together to cover a half step. Thumb of the left hand stays relaxed behind the middle finger and the whole arm travels. The thumb does not mark a spot to travel from.
Now, I write this only to "wet the interest" as I am no teacher. I just love the sound of the instrument...a lot. I also have to make the consession that I have heard and seen double players use absolutely attrocious technique and play in a band, entertain people, have a lot of fun, and get paid for the experience. So I may be out of line in assuming everybody that picks one up intends to grow with the instrument over time and continue to progress toward a virtuoso bass player. It is a much more physically demanding instrument than a guitar. The strings are heavier, longer; The left arm has to travel a lot more than on a guitar. It obviously has the added dimention of being infinately tunable which is akin to the fretless bass guitar.
Personaly, at this point in my development, I have three "voices". A Warwic, an Ernie Ball, and an Eminance EUB. Each voice is very unique and the music being played depicts which "voice" for me to use. Rock and Roll and the Warwic screams out to me. A ballad and the Erine Ball is right there. Swing, or jazz the EUB. Fusion? Just depends. Dixie Land, find me a tuba player! I'll just sit back and enjoy!
Jan 04, 2004 06:17 pm Walt, I think ya got a pretty good start there on the tutorial. I gotta say I know more now then I did before I read what you just wrote.
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