Singing under the cans
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Posted on Dec 29, 2003 09:36 pm
Karetaker
Member Since: Dec 23, 2003
I run into this a lot. I was just recording a band last night. I had a great mix for the backup vocals in the cans. I have a cord right out of the headphone amp into my control room so I can hear exactly what they are hearing. The guy who was doing the backups could sing it perfectly on key when the mix wasn't playing. As soon as I tried to record him he was all over the place. I started giving him more of himself, but that didn't help. It was at the point where the music and lead vocal were just barely in the mix. We finally got a good take on all of the backup parts, but it took forever. Is there any way I can help a guy like this. I was thinking of maybe trying to run a mic out of phase with a monitor. I'm just afaid it would be too much bleed though the vocal mic. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Dave
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olddogMember
Since: Jul 02, 2003
Dec 29, 2003 09:52 pm If it's a problem with pitch then plugging one ear while doing the singing helps me.
Sometimes I'll also wear 1 side of the headphones 1/2 off my ear, which basically does the same thing as plugging an ear but still lets some of the stereo mix thru in that ear. If it's a problem of not being able to stay on a harmony then more practice is needed so He doesn't go off following someone else or some instrument.
Dan
el musicoFreeleance Producer/Engineer/GtrMember
Since: Aug 11, 2002
Dec 30, 2003 01:28 am it always helps to add some reverb to his vocals when tracking, recording only the dry signal.
flame...bringing sexy backMember
Since: Jul 01, 2002
Dec 30, 2003 06:07 am and if all else fails, get another backing singer - harsh but effective!
Dec 30, 2003 12:39 pm I have to agree with Flame...But again if you are paid to capture the band, you can't be picking the members of the band that fit your taste of talent
Dec 30, 2003 03:21 pm I did have a nice small hall reverb on the vocals. I always give them some verb in the cans. I had the lead vocal all but dry with just a pinch of verb.
I'm afraid I can't pick who sings backups for a band. I did offer the service of a "one take wonder" singer but they declined this offer.
Dave
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Dec 30, 2003 06:21 pm Then all ya can do is sit it out usually. If he takes way to long and just cant get it though, you can always remind them what it would cost by the hour.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Dec 31, 2003 12:00 am Yup, Notin much to add here. I just give them the cans and tell them it's up to them to guide me through giving them what they want. I put the ball in their park. I like to work with unaltered "raw" tracks when I feed it to them. Gives them that live feeling they are used to. 0utside of that not much more I know to do. They are the artist, I am just there to give them what they need and capture what they produce.
Dec 31, 2003 09:59 am Well put Walt...did I just ask this question last month? I let the artist listen to the original track and he came back about month after to pay more money for a retrack of the vocals. The artist practiced at home and came back sounding better and I made more money....got to love this buisness
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Dec 31, 2003 11:44 am Gutter,
Yes you did and congradulations! I am thrilled to hear it is working out well. Pardon my grandstanding please; Getting the ego out is the key. We all want to help and do our best, but a humble approach to who is responsible for what and who has to do the work is always a better approach for all. [end grandstand]
Again congradulations!
Dec 31, 2003 06:10 pm Sorry if I ask questions that have already been asked. I did go back through and read many old posts. I've only been here for about a week.
What I did to get though it was crack open a Heineken.... If I have to punch a guy in the same chorus 50 times, then it's time for a beer.
The guy can sing. I've heard him live. He stays on key pretty good. Some guys just have a tough time under the cans... it is a whole different animal. I was just hoping that there might be something else I could do to make it easier for a guy like that.
Dave
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Dec 31, 2003 06:28 pm No need to be sorry, that is a very pertinant question. Hard one to search for too. Proding a vocalist along who is for all intents a a good singer but just cant get comortable in the cans is tuff. I know sometimes it might just be hearing themselves so directly is what makes it a bit tougher for them. You suggested just using no cans and rinning a live moniter at low level for him to cue off of. I have done that in the past when you get someone who has never tracked before, and it startles them when they hear their own voice coming back at them. I have in the past just sat them down to run through the take right in the control room with the moniters graduallybeing turned down for each run through. What I did was put up a very directional mic for them and didnt run it back live through the moniters, they could only hear their live voice. Without them knowing hit the record button and you have a take or two that may or may not work. The bleed through may be very slight and the tracks could then be used. You just gotta try differant stuff till he gets comfortable.
And as long as he knows hes paying for the time he may try a little harder.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Dec 31, 2003 07:10 pm Karetaker,
It is a good question. Using cans is definately a learned ability. Pshchologicaly it is difficult. I know when I first started laying tracks with the bass via cans, the lack of visual and tactile feedback was daunting. Especially for voices that are infinately tunable like fretless strings, trombone, and vocals. You are listening for the absence of a "beat frequency" which indicates that you are directly in tune. That takes practice in cans. And dito per Noise, some just can't get it down.
Jan 07, 2004 10:08 pm Here is the solution that I came up with. I mapped out the harmony in my TC Helicon harmonizer. Then I cut the lead vocal and just played him the harmony line that he was supposed to be singing. All he had to do was sing right along with the harmonizer. It worked out great! In a couple of takes we were done. It was a technique I employed out of desperation. I was getting horse from singing over the talk back mic the harmony that he was supposed to be singing.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Jan 07, 2004 10:24 pm That one should go in tech tips. lol
I would never have thought of that one. Very nice indeed, I may have to try that one out.
TheTincanbugsloppy dice, drinks twiceMember
Since: Aug 05, 2003
Jan 08, 2004 07:35 am That's creative... :) Nice.
DanMember
Since: Nov 21, 2002
Jan 08, 2004 12:36 pm what exactly does "the cans" mean?
for some reason i keep getting a mental picture of one of those telephones made of 2 cans and a string lol.
Jan 08, 2004 12:44 pm headphones, my friend, headphones...
Jan 08, 2004 09:46 pm Sorry Dan.... I guess I should put the proper name in parenthesis at least once along with the slang.
Singing under the cans (headphones)
There's another old trick I used to use too when I had a keyboard setup. I used to lay down what I called a "piggy-back track". If someone was having trouble getting on key I would lay down the notes of the harmony on a track and play that with the mix. A piano setting with a half decent sustain used to work pretty well. Some guys are stuborn and don't want any help to stay or get on key. If it has an official name, like "piggy-back track" they are much more open to the idea. Then they think it is a widely used technique. I haven't had to worry about it for the last several years. The only band I have been recording is my own and everybody can stay on key.
But, of course the best solution is a well rehearsed group of singers.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Jan 08, 2004 10:28 pm I like that term, it would set a lot of big heads at ease for sure.
Jan 08, 2004 11:11 pm Yeah there's some big egos out there Noize2u.
BTW... I like your idea about bringing a guy into the control room and easing down the monitors. I tucked that one away in the memory banks. It's always nice to have several options to try... I'm sure I'll be using that one at some point in the future.... Thanks
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Jan 08, 2004 11:57 pm Another last resort is to put a singer between two monitors. One monitor aiming at each ear. Purposely reverse the phase on one monitor. Play back the track in mono. The singer will hear the monitors, but they will go a long way to cancel each other out relitive to broadcasting throughout the room. Place the mic in front of the singer with it's pick up patern perpendicular to the speakers.
Now with all that babble, I havn't tried that one, just read it. The logic is there and the author claims it really works.
