Nov 10, 2003 01:03 pm it's compressing as much of the audio as you are sending it...if you trun the aux knob up all the way, then it is being sent 100% of the audio from that channel.
Behringer MX602A Effects Looping
Posted on Nov 10, 2003 01:01 pm
TheTincanbug
sloppy dice, drinks twice
Member Since: Aug 05, 2003
Using the effects send/return to plug in my Nanocompressor. Is the return signal compressing 100% of the audio? If it's a wet/dry mix, how can I adjust the wet/dry ratio to 100%? I thought I was compressing 100% of my audio, but I stuck my SansAmp in the effects loop for a guitar piece and ended up hearing a guitar track that sounded like it wasn't running through effects 100%.
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Nov 10, 2003 01:03 pm it's compressing as much of the audio as you are sending it...if you trun the aux knob up all the way, then it is being sent 100% of the audio from that channel.
Nov 10, 2003 01:09 pm Depends of course, if the AUX is pre or post fader, etc.
W.
Nov 10, 2003 01:46 pm try rolling the channel's main volume fader off when running the FX. the 602's aux is post-fader, so the wet signal should still be present in the mix. if you aren't hearing it, you need to make sure that the skinny gray knob with the white face (aux return) is centered.
dB...i thought that having the aux knob in the center detente was 100% of the audio, and that turning the knob up more gave it a signal boost (more than 100%).
Nov 10, 2003 01:59 pm Center is typically 'unity' which means same level as input. So if the effect output and input gains are at unity, as well as the aux out level (on the strip, and the mains) then it would be the same level as the fader is set to on the board.
W.
Nov 10, 2003 01:59 pm PS> Typically, compression should be done via. insert, as apposed to aux.
W.
Nov 10, 2003 03:23 pm Waldo, since the 602 doens't have inserts, do you suggest that we should be putting the compressor between the main outs of the mixer and the ins on the soundcard? I have the 802, which is almmost the identical board, so I'm curious. thanks -j
Nov 10, 2003 03:25 pm I have run compression on loops successfully MANY times, no it isn't the "proper" way to do it, but it works...it's better than no compression...
Nov 10, 2003 03:47 pm So I'd be better off just going instrument --> compressor --> mixer?
No problem. I don't have any need to mix those signals anyhow. Thanks guys.
Nov 10, 2003 03:48 pm Well, no it's not best to plug the instrument right in to the mixer...at least run it through a loop...you CAN*, many have...but I didn't say that...
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Nov 10, 2003 03:57 pm "PS> Typically, compression should be done via. insert, as apposed to aux."
"Well, no it's not best to plug the instrument right in to the mixer..."
confused... duhrrrrrrrr..........
Nov 10, 2003 04:00 pm I've always plugged my guitar --> sansamp --> mixer. I thought this was standard practice...
Nov 10, 2003 04:02 pm isn't the sans amp more like a pedal type thing? i think it is designed to go between an instrument and preamp, it's one of the rare exceptions, just like guitar pedals.
Nov 10, 2003 04:03 pm Yeah the SansAmp G2 is an amp simulator pedal
Nov 10, 2003 05:12 pm thats a different thing than a compressor...and actually, it's typically warned against putting a mic directly into a compressor, but an instrument I don't think has the same probs, so I may have mispoken there...
Nov 11, 2003 02:15 am i wouldn't put the compressor after the main outs. i tried that and it was way too hot for my particular compressor. there was a thread a while ago about that. another trick that was mentioned was to put the aux send into the compressor, then put the output into one of the line input channels, using that channel instead of the original (roll that one's volume fader off). it was mentioned as being a pseudo-insert method.
something that i am not seeing mentioned yet: when you simply put a compressor through the aux loop (at any aux setting) and have the source channel's main volume fader still on, you are getting a mix of wet and dry signals. unless you're using that trick i saw somewhere on this site to compress way more than you normally would and mix that with the wet signal (dan the automator?), then it's totally pointless to include the dry signal along with the wet signal that is actually being affected by the compressor.
i always thought that having it set at unity gain means that you are not consciously making efforts to reduce or to boost the volume. seems like it's a waste to attempt to boost volume artificially like that when you have to reduce it on the way out of those behringer mixers on its way into the sound card anyway.
Nov 11, 2003 03:38 am Inserts are typically pre-fader, post pre-amp/gain, aux are typically selectable, but occasionally hard set.
In this case, it appears that it's fixed post fader.
Aux returns are themselves, another channel.
So, when sending audio out via. an aux send, and back in through the return, you are doing the same as routing it through another channel on the board (other than you have the extra controls on the channel strip, and a pre occasionally).
You are also mixing both the un-compressed (as it's post fader, you can't turn the fader down to remove the original sound from the mix) signal, with the compressed, therefor cancelling the compression in the final mix to a large extent.
Compressors have line level inputs. You must match the line level on the compressors inputs in order for it to function.
In this situation, aside from a proper board, you'd wire it this way:
Mic->Preamp In->Preamp out->Compressor in->Compressor out->Line level input on board
Ensure line levels are appropriately set.
As far as using it on your mains, this is possible as well, just make sure your line levels are matched (+4dBu vs. -10dBv) on ins and outs, or you face distortion from lines being too 'hot'. You'll also have to make sure you monitor from after the compressor, and not from the board, or you will not hear the compression.
W.
Nov 11, 2003 03:55 am Maybe it'll be easier to explain the differences here:
AUX vs. Insert:
Inserts are designed to run in 'series' to the channel. If you plug into an insert, it 'breaks' the connection to the channel, routes from the point it's at (typically post-preamp, pre-fader) to the device on the other end of the cable, and then back in to the channel just before the fader. This allows you to 'replace' the input with whatever you send back through the insert, or modify the sound completely, without a single remnant of the original input.
Aux sends/returns are designed to run 'parrallel' to the channel. If you plug into an aux send, the channel is not affected. Being 'pre' fader would mean the original input from the channel (usually after preamps) will be routed to the device connected, modified, then sent back to the return (another channel), and mixed with the original channel. The volume sent to the device would be dependent only on the preamp, and aux send level. This prevents you 'tweaking' overall volume of the track w/ the effect, but allows you to remove the original sound almost alltogether (slide the fader on that channel to -infinity), and act almost like an insert. Being 'post' fader would mean that the output to the device connected would be set by the whole strip, and the aux sends. This is suitable for effects such as reverb, where you want to hear the original vocals PLUS the verb.
If you plug an insert cable into an insert jack on a board, and do not connect the other end to any device, you will get no audio in the main mix.
If you plug a cable into an aux send, and do not plug the cable into any device, you will not affect the channel, and it will still appear in the main mix.
This make better sense?
W.
Nov 11, 2003 11:05 am Ok, here is the recipe:
1.- Plug your mic (instrument) to the mic pre (line in) in one channel call it channel #1.
2.- Using a (pre fader) send, send the signal to the compressor via the aux send output that is connected to the compressor's input and turn the volume fader to minus infinite (no signal).
3.- connect the compressor's output to one available channel onthe mixer call it channel #2.
4.- use the volume fader on channel #2 to control the signal that is sent to the soundcard.
Is like having an insert without having one, and is the way the pros go.
Hope this help.
Nov 11, 2003 12:10 pm This helps a lot, guys. Thank you for your insight.
Nov 11, 2003 01:09 pm Sonico> Good, 'cept he's only got post sends ;) So that 'recipe' won't work in this example.
W.
Nov 11, 2003 07:44 pm Woah!!
My mistake, I tought the MX602 was identical to the MX802 that I have except for the six channels instead of 8 eight.
What I'd do is to patch the compressor at the mixer's outputs and monitor from the soundcard.
Just connect the soundcard's outputs to the tape in and monitor from there.
Nov 11, 2003 08:06 pm Hate to say this Sonico - but the MX802a has post fader AUX's ... ;)
However, I believe they are switchable with a tiny amount of soldering.
Nov 11, 2003 08:54 pm jues - MX802A has one pre-fader and one post-fader aux. you can pop open the back and do a simple solder and scrape to convert the normally post auxes on channels 1-4 to pre auxes as well.
Nov 11, 2003 08:57 pm oh god, my bad - I have a bloody 602a in front of me.
Time I went to bed I think :(
Sorry Sonico :D
Nov 12, 2003 01:57 am Just going by what was said by others above, I don't touch behringers lower end boards... Was told it was post only, so had to believe it!
Anyways, I should have posted enough info there to figure it out either way... I hope, lol
W.
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