balanced cable
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Posted on Oct 21, 2003 06:40 pm
wrmach
I'm Roscoooo P. Coltrane
Member Since: Apr 12, 2003
I mistakingly just bought an unbalanced mic cable.(XLR to 1/4inch) My preamp has 2 inputs,XLR and 1/4inch...both balanced. Do you guys think it will matter if I use the unbalanced mic cable? Thanks
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Oct 21, 2003 07:12 pm for dynamics mics, no, if won't matter.
but if you want to send phantom power to a condensor or if you want to send a balanced signal from one device to the next, you'll need a three conductor cable.
as for your preamp having balanced inputs... you sure you don't mean balanced outputs? what kind of preamp is it?
wrmach I'm Roscoooo P. ColtraneMember
Since: Apr 12, 2003
Oct 21, 2003 08:51 pm Hey Jamie,
I bought a Behringer VX2000 preamp.(I haven't even tried it yet) Both ins & outs are Balanced. I have dynamic and condenser mics. Maybe, I can just use the unbalaned cable for the dynamic. You think that will be okay?
Oct 21, 2003 08:55 pm Is it possible to have an XLR to 1/4" cable that isn't balanced? Aren't XLR cables always balanced? In that case it would make sense that the 1/4 would also be balanced, but I guess not...
Oct 21, 2003 09:04 pm porp, you can buy cheap "2 conductor" XLR where there's just no wire for the third pin, which wouldn't support a balanced line. as for XLR to 1/4", technically you can wire up anything to anything you want any way you want. all you need in some cable, the right connectors and a soldering iron. you can mix two channels into one. you can even swap two pins and reverse the phase!
wrmach, yeah that cable will be fine for dynamic mics, that's what's designed for. you might want to mark it with a peice of colored electrical tape or a dash of paint on both ends so that you always remember that it's two conductor
Oct 21, 2003 09:08 pm Ah, okay. I see. I thought that might be the case.
wrmach I'm Roscoooo P. ColtraneMember
Since: Apr 12, 2003
Oct 21, 2003 09:51 pm Yeah , I didn't check when I bought the cord.
wrmach I'm Roscoooo P. ColtraneMember
Since: Apr 12, 2003
Oct 21, 2003 09:51 pm Thanks Jamie.
Oct 22, 2003 09:45 am No such thing as XLR to 1/4" balanced, only XLR to 1/4" TRS balanced, as 1/4" is 2 conductor only.
Balance has nothing to do with phantom power, it is simply a method of reducing noise. If your microphone has balanced output (regardless of if it is dynamic, condensor, etc.) it is better to use balanced cables. If the microphone is not balanced, it doesn't matter, because it won't change anything!
W.
Oct 22, 2003 10:02 am why does "1/4"" nesssarily have to mean "TS 1/4""? 1/4 is one fourth of an inch, be it an instrument line like a guitar uses, a stereo plug like headphone jacks, or a balanced line.
and you're right, "balanced" and "phantom power" are two differnt things, but they both require that third conductor to work. please reread the thread before you post
Oct 22, 2003 10:21 am 1/4" is the industry standard for 'TS', if you purchase a cable asking for a 1/4", you'll either get asked if you want 'balanced' (TRS) or they'll simply give you 'unbalanced' (TS). Typically, you'll only see 1/4", or 1/4" TRS marked on packaging.
Phantom power can operate on two conductors. With balanced (3 conductor), pin 2 + 3 are equal voltage. Although, some (possibly most) microphones that require phantom power are balanced output, and phantom power will affect noise (create more) so balanced is best. You also risk damage to dynamic microphones if you run phantom power through them with unbalanced cables.
W.
Oct 22, 2003 10:42 am oh yeah... i knew that heh
Oct 22, 2003 10:58 am reading this now www.tangible-technology.c...er_connect.html
if your phantom power was sent over only a 2 conductor line, would that mean that pin 3 the "cold" would be dropped, or is it the ground pin 1 that you lack?
sorry wrmach for the false info. seems to be a common misconception :Os
Oct 22, 2003 11:53 am Typically pin 3 is dropped in unbalanced cables. But, of course, you could do it either way, as long as it's the same throughout your chain.
And yup, it's a common misconception.
W.
Oct 22, 2003 02:29 pm Quote:
No such thing as XLR to 1/4" balanced, only XLR to 1/4" TRS balanced, as 1/4" is 2 conductor only.
Well, technically (Using proper audio terminology) there isn't, but technically there is. I mean, literally there is. There are cables that are one-quarter-of-an-inch and are balanced. My point being that you know what Jamie meant and it really doesn't matter since he knew what he meant. He was just dropping the "TRS" because it was unnecessary in the context of the thread.
Oct 22, 2003 02:33 pm I have several unbalanced XLR to 1/4" cables and they work fine. It's just the two pin that is the signal lead and the other two go to the ground (if I recall correctly) and they have never given me problems...not that I use them much, but I have and still do on occassion.
wrmach I'm Roscoooo P. ColtraneMember
Since: Apr 12, 2003
Oct 22, 2003 04:51 pm Hey Jamie,
You don't have to apologize because you've helped me in the past. I appreciate your time...all you guys.
Oct 22, 2003 08:43 pm Just semantics, was making it clear because it seems he unintentionally got unbalanced, so knowledge of proper terminology could help in the future ;)
'Unbalanced' XLR to 1/4" is fine (and of course they exist, very aware of that), as long as the mic, and the rest of the chain can handle it. I would definately not recommend running phantom power through it (noise issues) even if the mic is dynamic (damage potential).
W.
Oct 23, 2003 12:25 am Oh, P.S., dB, good on the pin outs.
(Edited, re-read, thought you said pin 2 goes to ground)
Balanced XLR:
Pin 1: Ground
Pin 2: Hot (+)
Pin 3: Cold (-)
Avg. UnBalanced XLR:
Pin 1: Ground
Pin 2: Signal
Pin 3: N/C (Not connected, or connected to Pin 1 (ground))
Of course, you could run unbalanced with pin 3 as signal and pin 2 N/C, but your gear would have to be able to function with that, and be the same throughout the chain.
Just for shits and giggles:
1/4" TRS (Balanced)
Tip: Hot (+)
Ring: Cold (-)
Sleeve: Ground
1/4" TS (UnBalanced)
Tip: Signal
Sleeve: Ground
If it's an UnBalanced TRS (yep, can be wired that way too), the sleeve and the ring are typically shorted or N/C.
W.
Oct 23, 2003 12:32 am Oh, and a good side note for those who might want to put together their own cables; You cannot convert from balanced to unbalanced, or the other way around, with a mere cable, and not expect a severe quality drop/and or possible gear damage!
W.
Oct 23, 2003 12:59 am y'all make me afraid to plug anything into anything.. lol all of a sudden i feel like i'm gonna blow up my gear if i do it wrong!
Oct 23, 2003 01:00 pm Hehe, that's why information such as this is presented, so that you lower the risk!
Hell, I know I've blown stuff up, 'tis a learning experience.
;)
W.
Oct 23, 2003 01:02 pm sometimes blowing it up makes a really cool sound if you catch it!
