May 26, 2003 01:46 am first off what is your signal chain? What kind of mic into what kind of preamp to what kind of compressor?
Rock Vocals
Posted on May 25, 2003 10:47 pm
MSHARC
Member Since: Apr 05, 2002
I have a few songs recorded, that I really like I might add, that I can't get a good "rock vocal" out of. I have a deeper voice to start with. I guess what I want to do is to get a vocal that sits better in a rock mix. I have been playing with reverbs and eq's, but I'm not sure how to get that sound that I am looking for. I guess what I am asking, is what is the process that some other people use when eq'ing, or mixing vocals. I almost feel as if I need to thin it out, but then add reverb to give it some presence. Any advice would be great. Thanks.
Sharc
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May 26, 2003 01:46 am first off what is your signal chain? What kind of mic into what kind of preamp to what kind of compressor?
May 26, 2003 03:12 pm If you go to the recording tips section of this forum, and look at blueningastar's article entitled: "Getting Your Mix to...mix. - Part One – EQ as event security." you may find an nswer to your problem..I, too was having probs with my vocals and this really helped!
May 28, 2003 07:52 am A lot of people are shy or embarassed about the sound of their own voice and feel it doesn't sound good, when to someone else's ears it sounds fine.
I think it's important to develop your own vocal sound and not worry too much that your voice doesn't sound like someone else you admire. Much better to have a disctinctive voice sound of your own, to achieve this experiment with delay, reverb, eq, etc.
As long as you can sing in tune your voice will be fine - just listen to the variety of voices from artists who have made it over the past 30 years. They all vary.
May 30, 2003 12:02 am Thanks for the response, my internet has been down for four days...never realized how much I depend on it. To answer one question, I am using a AT3035 condenser mic. It goes directly into an Aardvark Q10 into SOnar. Also, I understand completely what you are saying glynb, as a matter of fact, it is a pet peeve that I have when I listen to other bands, especially cover bands. Imitation they say is a form of flattery, however, if I wanted to listen to that singer, I'd put on the cd and rock out. Not what I do. I remember a VH1 "Behind the Music" (love that show by the way, lots of neat insights into some great groups), and they were talking about how Jimi Hendrix hated the sound of his own voice. In fact, when he sang, he used to set up partitions in the studio so people couldn't see him singing. Now, I don't know about you all, but Jimi had a unique, and quite cool, vocal sound. I was more commenting not on changing the sound of my voice, but eq'ing, and mixing as to make it sit better in a harder rock sounding song. I have a deeper more mellow voice, which I can't say I "like" the sound of, but as you said, no one really likes the sound of their own voice. However, I have grown "used to" the sound. That said, listening to it from a mixing stand-point, it sounds good naturally in a softer or more ballad format, but lacks bite, and edge in a rock one. It is not something I plan to employ all the time, but I guess, which frequencies are generally cut in the voice to find its niche?
That was long-winded huh? But, I hope that clarifies what I was asking. Thanks for all the help in advance and I am going to go check out that article for some help. Ciao.
Sharc
May 30, 2003 12:37 am actually jimi hendrix loved the way his voice sounded in the band of gypsys. he said he could never find a singer who could sing his songs right. and , i quote ".. if you want to do something right you gotta do it yourself." but you are right about the wall thing, he feared people hearing his voice in solo situations. probably a mental disorder he developed as a child, his father allen was not a very supportive parent, and obviously stuck his foot in his mouth in the later part of the 1960's. just a theory. but to your question.
you have some cool gear man. never worked with a techina condenser mic yet but the q10 is bad ***. sonar is a really cool recording program. i wasnt to big on computers a few months ago but looking around here has made me a believer. sonars eqs and compressions are nice. come with alot of presets to search through and are easy to tweak. Of course i personally cant tell you exactly how to eq it or whatever because i cant hear it. also youre saying "sit better in a rock mix" a thing that i have found to work well with sonar is copy the entire track and place it in a whole new track ,giving you 2 tracks of the vocal take. (gotta love computers man, haha) anyway... then i pan them out. level them. and effect as follows. using reverb more dominantly on a side can add a nice effect. and never pan the items all the way out, give them a little room to breath, remember we are talking about stereo here. i hope i helped.
May 30, 2003 03:12 am MSHARC, if I can suggest something, are you compressing your vocals at all? Having heard what that AT3035 (a popular mic around here!) is capable of, I think you might do well to tackle the dynamic potential of that beast and gain some control over your peaks with at least some squeeze in software. Your profile suggests that you have niether a mixer or an outboard compressor, so I'm assuming you're not compressing at all. Give it a shot. And definitly take a look at BlueNinja's artile on mixing wingdwolf mentioned - I think some intelligent corrective EQing will help your vocal track find it's place in the mix. -j
May 30, 2003 08:53 am MSHARC, the thing about your voice suiting ballads and not rock?.....
I think a lot of this is sometimes down to the home recording situation. Let me explain. For a good rock sound the singer has to sound 'excited', very excited. So excited that he/she sings at the very edges of their range and at times at full blast. These vocals are easier in a live situation with a band in support with the blood pumping. When you come to sing at home in a quiet bedroom with wife/mother watching TV next door its very difficult to reproduce that kind of feel, much easier to sing a gentle ballad.
I have rerecorded several of my vocals cos I didn't think I had captured the right feel for the song. Sometimes you have to do things to get in the right frame of mind, like go for a vigorous run, or get angry about something, or get drunk! Some people find it easier to 'let go' than others.
Anyway, that's my two pence worth.
May 31, 2003 02:08 am glynb...yeah, the type of voice that I naturally have, which is how I sing, is more, well, I guess melodic. The way I learned to sing was with a lot of tone. Not always the best sound for a harder rock tone. I think I should really post it and let people hear what I am talking about. Might be a consideration on how to get a better sound if people can hear it. I agree whole heartedly about the mood thing. I feel as if I am a better singer live, and I believe that is because I love performing live in a band, and there is more feeling and emotion that go into songs. I have found a good way to get a little of that is if I record the vocal track while I am playing guitar, which I guess helps me simulate a more live feel. While my live recorded tracks with my last band are more mistake filled, they definetly have more flavor and feel. However, in this situation, what I am going for is a less ballad type sound from my voice. Less ballad like in the sense that it doesn't sound as "toney." Less fullness and more confinement I guess.
Also, Jamie, I am using a compressor, I believe I used the native compressor on that track, but I admit that being able to tweak the compressor is not my strong suit. I play around with them, but I never hear an appeciable difference when I am done. I notice it more when I compress a whole mix, but harder to tell on individual tracks. Thanks for the help. Also, where excatly is that article. At least, does anyone know the exact title and what category its under. Didn't look at all of them, but I didn't see it stick out. Later.
Sharc
May 31, 2003 03:48 am man the trick to it is to teach yourself not to hold back. i had that problem for a long time.. and as a result i ended up doing darkwave for a bit [my older tracks].. i got comfortable with my voice and just let loose and am now doing what i wanted to do [industrial rock].
eq can help smooth out or enhance the sound but its not going to change the performance.
just speaking from my own experience. =)
btw. post us a link, perhaps that will give us a better idea on how we can help.
Jun 03, 2003 10:16 pm Yes indeed, I would be curious to hear it as well sharc. And collapse, I agree whole heartedly with the voice thing. I dont like my onw voice, so I let go and find a voice I am comortable with and it usually turns out well. and as for yours, indeed you did let go and find a great voice for what you are doing now.
So sharc, dont worry you will find a space you fit comortably in and when you do, just let go and do it.
Jun 05, 2003 06:37 am Just letting go is the right idea. But its difficult to do in a home environment - much easier at a gig.
But, you HAVE to learn to do it if you are to get the best of your voice down on tape/disk.
Good news about singing is you can improve with practice - especialy if you are lucky enough to be able to sing live at gigs on a regular basis. I have been gigging regularly for 3 years now and my voice is better than it was at the start.
Of course you can overdo it too and ruin your voice, but that's a different story!
Jun 06, 2009 11:00 am Aside from all that performance crap ppl are spewing about (you never asked about performance), you are on the right track with thinning out your track in my opinion. I suggest for parts you want to sound aggressive, cut between 200-500 hz, as much as 6 db while boosting 2-6 khz by no more than 3 dbs. For solo parts or soft more melodic parts add the low frequencies back to fill out the space, making it not only full but creates sonic diversity. You also should use volume swells for specific parts you want to jump out. Just remember to err on the subtle side when doing this. Hope this helps = )
Jun 06, 2009 01:05 pm wow talk about a bump . 6 years! man i was in Iraq (the first time) during this thread.
Jun 06, 2009 02:45 pm INDEED!!!!
A new record for the oldest thread ever dug up out of the dregs.
And with good advice no less.
It does go to show though that some folks do go back and read the old threads. But this one is really old.
Jun 07, 2009 03:37 pm Hahaha. I found this while googling and the replies rubbed me the wrong way!!! Couldn't help myself.
Jun 07, 2009 07:24 pm No problem at all. Its good to see that the older threads still turn up on Google then indeed.
And it draws people in.
Welcome to HRC by the way. Hope you didn't take any offense from the above comments.
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