PRO TOOLS QUESTION BLUE !!!
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Posted on May 22, 2003 12:13 pm
Geoff
SM7b the Chuck Noris of Mic's
Contributor Since: Jun 20, 2002
this is more geared for blue ninja , but anyone else is more than welcome . I'm looking for places to get pro tools 5.3.3 or 5.3.1 for windows , but i'm having no luck except finding it or any PT software comming with M-box , 001 ect. I'm not looknig for the hardware ,just the software . Any idea , on any PT software (except the free 8 track one you download ) for windows whould be great.
on a side not , noize I'm not selling out on cakewalk , i'm just getting better seasoned :)
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May 22, 2003 12:38 pm Hey Geoff,
Here's one of the biggest downfalls of PT. You can't run the software without the digidesign hardware. The M-Box, Digi 001 and Digi 002 all come with ProTools LE. The software won't even start up if you don't have the hardware installed. So, they don't sell the software without the hardware. Sad, but true!
GeoffSM7b the Chuck Noris of Mic'sContributor
Since: Jun 20, 2002
May 22, 2003 12:44 pm how messed up is that ! it's kinda odd because i was looking at taking a PT admin corse from Berklee and they offered the software , but i wanted to get the software before i started the class to have an up on the game. So there is not a single PT ap. that you can run with out the hardware ?
juesContributor
Since: Dec 30, 2002
May 22, 2003 12:53 pm Well, I believe the "free 8 track version you can download" will work with any hardware - but as discussed prior, this is out of date and a piece o' crap :)
Weclome to PRO tools...
jues.
May 22, 2003 12:56 pm It's EXTREMELY MESSED UP!
As far as I know, only the free version you mentioned will run without the hardware. It's entirely possible that Digidesign puts out some sort of "educational" version of PT LE for the schools that doesn't require the hardware, but I've never heard of it. If you happen to find some such thing, let me know. That could be useful information.
GeoffSM7b the Chuck Noris of Mic'sContributor
Since: Jun 20, 2002
May 22, 2003 01:11 pm more and more I'm not liking PT , it seems like a big gimick . I just want to run and know PT's so i can work with bands and other people that use PT and not Sonar . I'll check around some more but I'm becomming sceptic . maybe i can give a shout out to the digi guys.
May 22, 2003 01:29 pm The PT LE version that does not require the hardware is a hack version commonly available on warez sites...it also has a hack to allow PT plugins and stuff to...it's 32 tracks if I recall correctly, it's NOT a legitimate version, it's warez.
But it IS out there in the dark abyss of pirates and warez...
May 22, 2003 01:34 pm You can try talking to Digidesign, but my experience with them is that they sort of brush off us little guys. It would appear that the only reason they even bother with the M-Box, 001 and 002 is to suck people in to the PT world so they can sell us their big money stuff later on. So, questions on setting up a small money system seem to easily get lost in their inboxes!
PT is very nice software. I've really liked working with it and have gotten some pretty good results. It's things like this that have turned out to be the deal-breaker for me.
GeoffSM7b the Chuck Noris of Mic'sContributor
Since: Jun 20, 2002
May 22, 2003 02:15 pm alright guys i did some reserch and check this out , besides what db was talking about there only PT software that you don't have to buy hardware with is PT free . I reserched the schools too and berklee doesn't even offer any software with the classes . The berklee Pro tools producer class , excepts PT free as a requirment (that's good for the beginner) but the digi PT 101 and above cost more for one ( a little over a grand) and they do not except PT LE even you have to have PT/HD and above to take any of thoughs classes . I wanted to give PT a shot , i thought it might help open afew more doors up but I don't want to toatally re-do my set up .
May 22, 2003 02:20 pm And you definitely don't want to have to buy a PT HD system! That'll run you several grand when all said and done. The free version of PT is basically useless. It only allows 8 tracks, limited use of plug-ins and it hasn't been updated in at least a year or so. This is exactly why all the competitors are taking over the home and project studio market!
May 22, 2003 02:52 pm Yeah, I'm sure that ProTools is a great program that's extrememly powerful... but so are Cubase and Sonar and the others. What bothers me are people who think that ProTools is the only thing out there and is so much more powerful than the other stuff. They just get convinced that ProTools is a perfect program that can't be topped in any way. A friend of mine said that after using ProTools he is hating Sonar more and more. When I said something about Sonar having unlimited tracks, he said that he didn't like that and that ProTools (The version he's using at school) was better because it was limited. Huh? It seems to me that the reason for this is that some people don't realize that Sonar and Cubase can do most of the same stuff because they don't learn about it until after they use ProTools... I can respect opinions, but personally I'm not seeing the evidence.
GeoffSM7b the Chuck Noris of Mic'sContributor
Since: Jun 20, 2002
May 22, 2003 02:53 pm I agree completly with that statement . So blue how is you venture with Sonar going ? That is where my main experiance lies and i have to thank Noize for that and that was when it was just sonar , no 2.0 , or 2.2xl .
May 22, 2003 03:02 pm Well, Porpoise, I feel the same way, and actually, I started writting a soapbox rant about that, but I never finished it.
The feeling ProTools is the only game in town started back in the day when IT WAS the only game in town. Some habits die hard...Ya know there are still people out there that think cookies from the internet are the devil :-)
Some peeps just refuse to advance with the times...of course those peeps live on a world that is flat.
May 22, 2003 03:42 pm Look at like this... If you spent $8000 on a PT HD system, you'de probably be pretty resistant to the idea that Sonar or Cubase is just as good too! The ProTools world is very close minded. It's largely centered around MacIntosh which says something to me. Most Mac users think that PCs are inferior too. The whole ideology seems to permiate through everything they do. Macs are the best, PT is the best, Behringer sucks, etc. etc. I'm a firm believer in getting the best product for my needs. But "needs" also include cost, flexibility and compatibility. What my needs don't include is unfounded bragging rights! Again, I enjoy working with PT, but with the current capabilities of products like Sonar and Cubase, its limitations have become completely unacceptable in my book.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
May 22, 2003 08:01 pm Let me make a sharp point here. Blue was a die hard PT user, and does still use it a bit. PT was the first to enter the digital recording world, sort of, and they were the first to conquer the Hi end studio market with a complete system made for digital recording. I worked in a studio that aquired it when it was first out, and it left everybocy scratcing their heads both in awe and bewilderment. Why, because not only were they impressed, but they were also upset that they spent this much money to be able to work faster and better and cleaner. And what happened, the systems crashed, hardware incompatabilitys arose, and the system was so deep and un-user friendly it was unbelievable. Now they did iron it all out and things ran smoothly for the most part. But it was still only able to run on Mac and the pluggins were expensive, and still are. Now along comes 12 Tone Systems, who was making some kick but sequancing software, (PT didnt do midi at all) and also Stienberg who was at the same level as 12 Tone. Now they wanted a piece of the pie as it were. But they had a better idea, lets make a product that will integrate both midi and audio. So along comes CakeWalk and Cubase. Stienberg developed the upper hand for awhile because they developed a native pluggin format called VST before CakeWalk had anything to compete. Along came many more software sequancing makers who joined the frey, but Stienberg and 12 Tone put all their eggs in the PC basket. Why, because the PC was becoming the dominant force not only in the home, but everywhere. Fast forward to today, Stienberg and CakeWalk/12 Tone Systems are the top software makers of the day. CakeWalk jumped ahead by combining the use of ASIO and WDM and MME driver formats. I am sure Stienberg will follow soon. But truth be told, they thought ahead and made their software compatable with almost every piece of hardware available. DigiDesign has cut thier support of PC products almost completely off. And while others try to make their products at least somewhat compatable with the others, Digi Design is making their stuff more discrete then ever before.
Oh well enough ranting about it.
Geoff, I hope you can find a way to get to play with PT for your learning benifit, I believe you will learn something from it. And I too keep PT LE availabe for use when customers have no means other then PT to supply me with tracks they need worked on, so I will still keep it available. But it will never be my DAW of choice, ever!
Peace
GeoffSM7b the Chuck Noris of Mic'sContributor
Since: Jun 20, 2002
May 23, 2003 05:53 am that was a big rant noize, feel better ? Anyway I'll check inot it more when i get home . I never was one to get on the popular kid band wagon.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
May 25, 2003 06:34 pm Ya Geoff, I do fell a little better after that. I to never was one to jump on the popular part of the playground. I used Cakewalk when everyone else was using Cubase or Logic. And even though I tried them all, I still ended up going back to my old friend CakeWalk.
And just to emphasize the point of how DigiDesign thinks. I own their hardware sampler, which is PC based called SamplCell II. Now mind you there are many thousands of these units out there and the guys who use them are diehards like me. But DigiDesign decided not to carry on driver updates past win98, although I did get it to run in winMe. But now I have to build a special PC just for the SampleCell card that will run winMe or 98. And DigiDesign does not give a hoot about the thousands of us out there who would like to be able to run it in XP but cant because they wont write updated drivers.
See, I ranted again, and yes I feel better.
Peace
GeoffSM7b the Chuck Noris of Mic'sContributor
Since: Jun 20, 2002
May 26, 2003 06:44 am you know they would make more money if they had a much wider range . it's that kind of thinking that's going to bring them down in the long run . It would be nice to see Sonar being picked up like PT's has in all the "big" studio's , and band's like Linkin Park endorsing the crap out of cakewalk like they do PT's . It's like Marshall and Gibson , you are buying the name and bragging rights more than you are getting a product .
May 26, 2003 08:42 am I think you should maybe reconsider that thought. They have a couple of key products targeted at the average schmucks like me, everything else is very high end. Their primary target audience is high-end production facilities, that is obvious. If they really hit the common man's market they may make a little more money, but their cost of support would go up to with everybody and their dog calling them for support. At this point, if they get called for support, it is worth their time since it is probably a multi-thousand dollar installation.
The only other issue is "mind share" or name brand recognition. They really don't need any more of that, since they pretty much own it...If I was ProTools I really wouldn't care in the little guy could afford me or not from strictly a business frame of mind. When those little guys get to be big guys, they buy ProTools anyway, even if it isn't the main system in house they need it to be compatible with the others...
It's lame, but it's true...
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
May 26, 2003 10:15 pm And to be honest, Cubase and Sonar are being used by some very high end clients and production facilities. Stop by their sites and take a look at the sections dedicated to who is using their products and you will see some big names. I think Stienberg and 12 Tone Systems have spent their money wisely develping and advancing their products without paying to drop big names and such in their adds.
I can say this though, I went out to CA to be interviewed for a large studio and production facility and guess what software was running in their main room. Sonar and Cubase, tied into a rather large and high dollar video and post production set-up. Like a fool I turned the job down, knowing I was a shoe in as I was the only person interviewed who was well versed in the use of Sonar and how to tie it into the workings of their system. So they do have their products out there, they just would rather put their money into development of better more stable products.
