Order Of Recording?
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Posted on Apr 30, 2003 03:46 pm
Vikki
Member Since: Sep 22, 2002
Hi
O.K i'm new to the recording game, so where do we go first? I know this is very basic so experts please don't get frustrated and angry with me. I have just about purchased most of the equipment for my own basic recording set up although Sonar 2.2 hasn't turned up yet, seems a bit in short supply here in the u.k. I want to record some country standards for starters, so whats the best way to go about it? Should i get a basic drum track (or is a click track o.k first) together first of all along with some basic rhythm guitar and then make a rough sketch of the vocals over this, and get a basic framework together all in time first, this would give me and other musicians i can get hold of something to work around, and then gradually add and improve and replace the instruments and vocals until i'm happy with what i hear? How do you guys go about it? I think i have a very long way to go!
Regards
Vikki(u.k)
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flame...bringing sexy backMember
Since: Jul 01, 2002
Apr 30, 2003 04:00 pm youre welcome to as much help as ya like vikki - we're not one of those unfriendly 'experts only' forums here - we've got many people like yourself in the same boat and we're happy to help.
anyways, i start with a basic drum loop or click track, over which i put a guide acoustic guitar part. it doesnt matter how rough this oe is as long as its in time.
next, i go back over the drums and add extra fills, cymbals, shakers, tambourines, whatever where they're needed..normally building them up in the chorus and dropping them down again for the verses.
next, i re-record the guitar part normally, or add a bassline - whatever...by this point you'll hopefully have a solid basis for whatever else.
however, theres no hard and fast rules - if ya need to do a vocal bit to remember which verse is which and where the instrumental parts are, then so be it...but i'd definately recommend getting the rhythm track down first - ie, guitar and drums or bass and drums. if ya dont get these bits right, then youre screwed!
if ya need any help constructing parts of your songs, id be happy to download the files from somewhere and do what i can.
dont hesitate to ask if ya need some more advice - and keep us posted on whats happening!
flame (also uk)
Apr 30, 2003 04:22 pm Sounds to me like you have a good idea of which way to go already. Starting with either the drums or a click track is an obvious must (you have to have something to keep the time!). After that, you're the boss. I usually like to lay down my drum tracks first, then a scratch guitar track so I know where I'm at in the song (I write most of my songs on guitar). Then I add bass. Then the keeper guitar tracks. Next, I usually throw down some vocals. By this point, I usually hate at least a couple of things I've done, so I go back and address them, then add any more instruments I know I want in there. Next, I make a rough mix and listen to it for a few days. That will usually reveal several things that I want to address. So, I make changes, remix and again listen for a couple of days. Massage into wet hair, rinse, repeat!
You'll find that most people will work in some variaton of this theme. It works pretty well for me and it's getting fine tuned all the time. The more I do it, the less I find myself remixing the same song over and over again. Although, I still have yet to consider a single recording I've made to be complete! Your musical sense will tell you the exact order in which to track a particular song. Trust them. It's likely they'll lead yu down the right path for a particular song. Best of luck and be sure to post something for us to hear when you're ready!
flame...bringing sexy backMember
Since: Jul 01, 2002
Apr 30, 2003 04:29 pm yeah blueninja raise a good point there about leaving what youve done for a few days, and then listening back....you'll have a whole new perspective on what youve done that way.
unless you're 198 years old, theres no rush...!
Apr 30, 2003 04:31 pm heck even if you are only 190 you may want to rush...
I agree tho, leaving something sit for a few days, not working on it or listening to it can be a great help with perspective.
VikkiMember
Since: Sep 22, 2002
Apr 30, 2003 04:48 pm Hi
Thanks guys, well i keep looking at some of these drum loop disks available out there, i notice Big Fish have just released one in the drum brushes style which is part up my street and they have also done a country style disk with other instruments on. Do these loops seem to work out o.k. can you join them without a glitch? The other way i could go is i have a new keyboard and the drum section is just out of this world, it has 4 assinable outs so i suppose you could mix the drum track after recording it to get a more realistic sound. Just something for me to think about for a while until Sonar arrives.
Thanks
Vikki
flame...bringing sexy backMember
Since: Jul 01, 2002
Apr 30, 2003 04:53 pm ive said it before (and ill probably say it again...)
try powerfx from drum loops (see the link on the left)
theyve got a set dedicated to coutry stuff if thats what youre into, and theres bound to be something sueful there.
the first five are free too...
Apr 30, 2003 05:02 pm they are only free if you go to www.powerfx.com and take their survey tho!
Apr 30, 2003 05:09 pm Drum loops work well, but usually they're mixed to a stereo track so you don't have any specific control over the various parts of the drumkit. In many cases, this is a non-issue and stereo loops may work very well for you. You could certainly use your keyboard and get yourself a little MIDI interface so that you can hook it up to your computer. Then you sequence the drum parts in Sonar and use the sounds from your keyboard. This might be the method of choice in your situation since you like the sounds on your keyboard and a MIDI interface could be picked up for less than a lot of drum sample CDs. The only thing you need to watch out for with sequencing drums is that they can sound very "machined" very easily. You have to really spend some time playing with them to get a realistic sounding performance, but you'd be amazed at what you can do with a little time invested.
As for drum loop CDs, PowerFX www.powerfx.com makes some really great ones. A lot of us around here use them. Also, a couple that I just discovered that I am really interested in are Discrete Drums www.discretedrums.com/index.htm and MultiLoops www.multiloops.com/index.html . These two actually provide you with loops that are not mixed. You get separate wav files for the kick, snare, toms, etc. That way, you can mix, effect, etc. the drum kit as you see fit instead of being locked in to whatever they see as the right mix. Of course, this freedom does not come without a price. The PowerFX discs are far more reasonably priced as are many of the others.
Apr 30, 2003 05:12 pm What is this? A girl comes in and all of us start piling up on the thread answering at the same time! ;)
VikkiMember
Since: Sep 22, 2002
Apr 30, 2003 05:48 pm Hi
Checked some of the sites out and it seems the skys the limit, only governed by how deep your pockets are and of course the imagination and knowledge to use it all. Just a thought there are some drum loops included with the Sonar 2.2 package i have ordered, what sort of styles are included? I think i will be perhaps o.k with getting it all together its the mastering thing that worries me, i suppose if you keep playing a similar commercial c.d back when you are mastering it will perhaps give a guide to how to mix ones own. Perhaps!
Good Night All
Thanks
Vikki.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Apr 30, 2003 09:57 pm Yes there are some drum bits in Sonar Vikki. Did you spring for XL or just the standard? They both have loops and such, but the XL version does come with a bigger selection.
As for the mastering part, yes listening to a track you know you like the sound of and trying to get to that point will work to a certain extent.
VikkiMember
Since: Sep 22, 2002
May 01, 2003 02:32 am Hi
Went for the xl version but its still in the post, may be it will arrive today. Judging by the postal service over here i won't hold my breath though, they lost a trombone i posted just after christmas, hardly a small package.
Here's a recording nightmare though, if i just strum my acoustic guitar a couple of times the woman in the house next door turns her radio on, good for acoustic stuff don't you think, then again its perhaps my playing!
Vikki.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
May 01, 2003 10:41 am Yup, this natural order of things largely depends on the project. If you are working with multiple musicians it is best to understand what they need to stay in rythum and what they want to hear to be able to perform well. I do insist on a click track at least in the very begining to keep things tight. Once I have a solid rythum in the piece the click track can go away. Obviously if the piece is streight eighth rock you are probably home once a drum track is in place. If it is progressive jazz however that may be much more difficult as different instrument "voices" will cary the beat at different times.
Don't be daunted by the available equipment out there. Do hang out and ask questions, this will help you purchase once instead of always having just a little less than you need. Once you have a basic or bare bones studio in place and start actually recording your needs will become aparent. There are so many nice looking "toys" that it is easy to end up with stuff that seemed "really cool" that just collect dust.
It sounds like the first purchase you need is a cage for your neighbor!
Walt UnUk
Blue, don't worry so much about folks responsing to a post from a female. We still love you too! Smooch Smooch!
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
May 01, 2003 07:27 pm Vikki, glad to hear you wnet with the XL. There is are a few toys in there you will get use out of. Several pieces that will do nicely for sequancing yoru drum parts. I have only touched them slightly as of yet, but they are pretty easy to use. I know dB toyed with one of them as well and mentioned he thought they were pretty good. I think you will hae pretty good set up with the XL version, and back to the mastering thing. XL comes with a couple of very good pluggins for mastering and such, and yo should be able to get a very good pre-master sound going with just Sonar. And as Walt mentioned, feel free to ask all you like of us as that is what this site is for.
And I almost forgot, as Walt said, the neighbor thing can be a pain. But maybe when you have a little time you could put up a little sound absorbtion material. I lived in a bunalow for several years, and my studio room was right next to their bedroom. I woul dget them banging on the walls at all hours of the night.
glynbMember
Since: Dec 16, 2002
May 02, 2003 07:29 am " I woul dget them banging on the walls at all hours of the night."
Yeh, young couples can be selfish in that way!
Tee hee!
