more O/H questions.

Posted on
Member Since: Nov 27, 2007

ok so ive been mucking around with using the overheads as the meat of my sound.

how much are we talking here as far as vol is concerned compared to the close mics?
the big problem i have is when i turn the overheads up, the cymbals are becoming hard to control ie; i have sparatic loud smahes on the cymbals. they are totally excessive.

this can be controlled using compression?
i just want to know who else has issues like this with overheads, or is there just something all ****** up with my EZdrummer?

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MASSIVE Mastering, LLC
Since: Aug 05, 2008

Feb 12, 2010 11:40 am

90% of it is positioning. Of course, I have no idea how EZDrummer is going affect things.

Actually, I have no idea what EZDrummer even is. I'd imagine it's a drum replacement thing...?

Since: Apr 03, 2002

Feb 12, 2010 11:41 am

it makes drums EZ, of course, get with it MM. ;-) heh
Since: Nov 27, 2007

Feb 12, 2010 07:21 pm

you'd think so wouldnt ya? its more like EZDrama atm.
Since: Nov 27, 2007

Feb 12, 2010 07:25 pm

so in regards to positioning, would could i really be expected to get a decent amount of snare etc to cymbal ratio?

i think maybe im taking the using of oh's as much of your sound a little to literally?

Since: Sep 30, 2009

Feb 12, 2010 10:32 pm

Hmm. this is confusing. maybe you'd better create an account on toontracks forums? they're fairly decent about replying (not as bad as cubase at least). or wait. no. i think i've had problems with them too lol. But maybe some user over there will see your post like this soon, or in a week. or month lol. but i'm pretty sure you and i are the only EZdrama's and i have yet to even really test overheads.

Typo Szar
Since: Jul 04, 2002

Feb 12, 2010 10:54 pm

I think EZDrums is built to rely mostly on the close mics. If u were to use ur O/Hs as ur "meat" ud have to personally position them for that result, which is most likely NOT how they were intended in EZDrummer.

EZDrummer also has the "room" track u can turn up or down which i think for these purposes would serve u better than the actually labeled O/Hs in the program

just my 2 cents, but this is y im not a fan of these types of plugs atleast for serious recordings taht i plan to put out, no matter how "good" the samples r, u cant create ur own distinct tone and show ur take on it
Since: Nov 27, 2007

Feb 12, 2010 11:44 pm

well i pretty much got it now dudes, thanks heaps for th help.
SD2 has an envelope function on each piece if you want to use it. and i couldnt hear any change when using it all and moved onto to something else.

it just so happens i hadnt turned on the little iddy biddy pinhead sized button placed inconspicuosly to the right.

well that and i turned down the oh's a bit and used more the close mid and far ambient mics.
the far one FYI Fragile is great for blending the kicks so they dont sound like they are just sittng up front.

i cant see much need to use reverb on anything, maybe a touch on the snare and that's it. the room mics are doing just fine.

MASSIVE Mastering, LLC
Since: Aug 05, 2008

Feb 13, 2010 10:32 am

Trick #1...

Isolate the OH's and throw monitoring to mono.

Set a delay on the right overhead (left if you're in the UK**) to about 8ms.

Start bringing the delay up 1ms at a time - You're likely to hear a lot of "kah-keh-koh" due to phase cancellation. The point is to hear relatively clean doubling without a lot of phase cancellation. You'll probably find a point somewhere between 11 and 18ms.

Go back to monitoring in stereo.

Basically what you're doing is fooling the ear/brain into thinking the room is ~15ft wider. You're getting the clarity of closeness with the "space" of distance - all without actually having the distace.

It doesn't work well on everything. But it works well on an awful lot of stuff - and it can open a very nice space in the middle while adding a great "big room" feel to the drum mix.

** I do that strictly because of the driver's positioning in a car (or a motorcar if you're in the UK). Delaying away from the driver's position. Otherwise, it's strictly to taste.
Since: Nov 27, 2007

Feb 13, 2010 10:53 pm

great tip there cheers MM.

I have a mono channel in amongst all these friggin mic channels so that could be good.

i will try for sure, but i managed to get (to me) a pretty awesome drum sound.

took a bit of tweaking, mainly of the mid room mic, which can be quite boomy) to get it right.

Now ive mucked with it i absolutley agree that the drum sound is mostly all oh's and room mics. getting those quick double kicks to sound like they belong in the mix to me is the hardest thing but its all about blending.

MASSIVE Mastering, LLC
Since: Aug 05, 2008

Feb 14, 2010 12:43 am

I just mean to monitor in mono while finding the right delay. Easier to hear the cancellation (there will always be some amount of cancellation - But there is "pleasant and acceptable" and "yeech").

I am not a crook's head
Since: Mar 14, 2003

Feb 14, 2010 01:02 am

i think maybe im taking the using of oh's as much of your sound a little to literally?

I think that since you're using a software sequencer, I would tend to agree with you here.

On an acoustic set in a real room with real mics, things are going to behave differently than with software, even if you're using a good and convincing sequencer like EZDrummer.

It's the same deal with micing a guitar amp vs. using software modelling. No matter how good the modelling, it's just not going to play by the exact same rules as the real thing.

Since: Sep 30, 2009

Feb 14, 2010 02:03 am

I'll let you know what i find to be true in my case next time I'm mixing drums (which may be another week. I trashed the major theme i'd been working on for two weeks or so. Decided it wasn't the direction i wanted to go. Too much piano/synth. not enough rock)

I'd imagine S2.0 should play by the rules a bit more than modeling software could, since we are talking about true sound sources, just cut and spliced. But like some have brought out, it depends on their setup they had recording. And who knows. Maybe its somehow "engineered" towards close micing. But hey, if you've got an awesome tone with the oh's and room mics, rock on! Post the song when its ready if possible, i'm quite curious. Have these drums been for that piece you put up last week?

I'm really hoping you figured it out :) i know with myself, it takes me a few days to know if i'm just fooling myself into thinking bc i did something that took time and was difficult, it must be good. But hopefully you've got it. The drums in my other mixes are starting to really leave a bad taste in my mouth. I'm finally hearing what more experienced ears are hearing, and those drums sound like piss!! Especially my snare. That was with only 1 room mic however and no artificial reverb. I think i can figure it out better next time. I'm definitely following your lead here and taking time to get that "blend" right.
Since: Nov 27, 2007

Feb 14, 2010 03:44 am

yep the blend with close mid and far is essential.
i will post a song eh?

see what you all recks.
will start another thread.
Since: Nov 27, 2007

Feb 14, 2010 04:59 am

dint bother with a new thread.
i chucked another song in my profile. mainly so you can hear the drums. there's no bass so the drums are a little out there atm but im ****ing happy with sound of them eh.

there's no reverb at all on em, might need a tad on the snare and toms..

anyway, pay no attention to the very sloppy guitars at times, it a song in progress. cant wait to finish this one properly.

i actually had that other song i did before uploaded, but for some raisin the bass git was off the charts, dunno what the **** happened there. so i took it off, but geez it sounds so much better with the drums correctly mixed.

gonna try MM's suggestion tonight.

Since: Sep 30, 2009

Feb 14, 2010 01:16 pm

Dude! wow. those kicks sound so... full. Kinda growly. The snare sounds like... well. an actual snare you hear in music haha. nice work mixing for sure. And totally gotcha on the guitar tracks. Mine are so sloppy when i first start. sometimes i retrack a few times before the final track simply because i can't stand it any longer.

Nice composition as well. A lot of dynamic. just out of curiousity, what are you doing for the vox in these songs eventually anyway? are you tracking them, or do you have a band

Czar of Turd Polish
Since: Jun 20, 2006

Feb 14, 2010 01:31 pm

Loving the suggestion on Trick #1. Must try.
Since: Nov 27, 2007

Feb 14, 2010 07:28 pm

will be tracking "pie hole" myself. i play guitars and sing for this band so i dropped myself in it.

the vocal style, to a point works in and out with guitars, i can sing off time but cant go all crazy off on a tangent for too long with this stuff, she's a little to techy at times and i would get lost or start playing wrong timing etc.

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