How to Record clear sounding guitars?

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Marijuana Czar
Member Since: Oct 01, 2009

Hey I have a "set-up" if you could even call it that, of a Behringer Zenyx 1204FX mixer that plug my guitar straight into and record through the studio monitors(meaning i dont use a mic to record the guitar going through an amp)

Everytime I record guitars.. it comes out all muddy/just basically not clear, i dont expect crystal, but possibly glass? lol
I try to eq my guitar but i really have no idea where to start, i kinda just tweak around.
Are there any tips to get a good sound?
Do i need to learn how to use a compresser or some **** like that? Let me know

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Prince CZAR-ming
Member
Since: Apr 08, 2004


Feb 12, 2010 11:42 am

Hey Pipe, i have a few ideas, though they may not be relevant.

1) guitar cord. a faulty one will drop some signal (usually high, as there's less power in higher freq). Try another cable?

2) plugged into what input on mixer? you may plug into the LINE input, but you'll need a lot of gain, which is OK. Converting your git signal w/ DI box will make it MIC level, maybe that'd be better. You'd be plugging into the MIC XLR input then, from the DI box.

3) maybe a low-pass button pushed on the mixer somewhere, or the EQ is all kitty-wampus. Setting the knobs all at middle is a good place to start.

4) guitar knobs set to no treble?

5) monitors have no high end? tweeters blown? try with headphones to see.

To check your signal, you can open a spectral analyzer on your recorded signal and see if there's way too much low end, or no high end. Voxengo has Span which is good for this. It's free too.

I am not a crook's head
Member
Since: Mar 14, 2003


Feb 12, 2010 12:11 pm

We might need a sample of what you're hearing since, like PJK illustrated, there are a number of possible causes. It may simply be the way that guitars are going to sound in your situation since recording direct onto a mixer channel isn't a terrific way to record electric guitars.

I understand what you mean though, even though you're not expecting excellent quality, you're expecting higher quality than what you're getting. See if you can post a sound sample and maybe we can help assess your situation.

Member
Since: Sep 30, 2009


Feb 12, 2010 01:26 pm

Are you using any modeling software? I'd recommend getting something if you're recording electric guitar. My les paul sounds incredibly muddy without going threw an amp or a simulation. Maybe your DAW has some free software in it? Cubase does. Never tried it actually but i imagine it'd help. Also i swear i have seen some other freebees for modeling.

Best solution to modeling is definately line 6's podfarm. It seems like a lot of guys here use it, and i haven't heard a single one complain. I love mine. I think you can buy the unupgraded software for $50, though you'll need an iLok key. There are some other modeling companies out there that i imagine work pretty good as well.

If you can't afford pod farm however, like i said. there are some freebees out there if i recall correctly. Not sure about how good their quality is however.

http://www.reverbnation.com/2ndg
Member
Since: Nov 27, 2007


Feb 12, 2010 07:49 pm

p-p-p-p-pa-pa-pa...Podfram rocks.

http://www.reverbnation.com/2ndg
Member
Since: Nov 27, 2007


Feb 12, 2010 07:49 pm

i meant podfarm. sorry. dont go looking for podfram now ok?

Uh, at least one more time . . .
Member
Since: Feb 07, 2007


Feb 14, 2010 02:12 pm

Yeah, use modeling of some kind--plugging directly into the mixer is a waste of time--it's never going to sound good, no matter what you do. I use a Toneport, and mostly a Zoom G1, and get very good results indeed. And unless you are in an environment in which other people within earshot forgive and/or don't mind loud, screeching guitar noise, you can't really use a miked-up amp.

http://www.reverbnation.com/2ndg
Member
Since: Nov 27, 2007


Feb 14, 2010 07:42 pm

yeah i totally agree.
even if you can handle loud gits, unless the room is really really treated ie the walls, yer gonna pickup all that noise off the walls. believe me ive tried everything bar that.

im not in the position to treat my walls with anything other than contempt, so i had to buy Pod Farm.

you can record all day all night, no one complains, and the sound, really is better than youre gonna get from an amp. i"ll be honest.
one thing that you could do to fill up the background in your mixes, maybe instead of using reverbs too much is record your guitar amp and blend it in the backround. tis what im gonna try next.
you'll get the room noise in there with the amp guitars. as long as its not too bottom endy, which is usually an issue, then you can use it.

I am not a crook's head
Member
Since: Mar 14, 2003


Feb 15, 2010 01:55 pm

It's not THAT hard to record an amp with a mic. Acoustics definitely matter but to someone who is recording direct with no modelling, a real amp in an imperfect acoustical space is still going to be a radical improvement.

Honestly though, I record in some terrible acoustical environments. From an untreated closet to an untreated study to my crudely treated basement, I've probably got just about everything wrong with a live room that could be wrong. I certainly don't make professional recordings, but I've always been satisfied with the guitar parts I record. There are things in my recordings that sound way worse than the room ambience on the guitars, I'll put it that way.

Modeling technology has come a long way even since the explosion in its popularity just a few years ago. I've been impressed a couple of times just this week alone with some modeled guitars I've heard on home recordings. Depending on what style of guitars you're recording, modeling may be the answer for you. I think they work best for clean tones and heavy distorted tones. It's everything inbetween those 2 extremes that modellers have trouble with. They just haven't reached a point where they can outmatch a vaccum tube being pushed into overdrive.

For your tastes, it may not make a difference. Obviously there are a ton of people who are totally satisfied with the capabilities of modelling technology.

For me, my tastes in guitar tone, in my situation of owning a home, having no children and having a very understanding wife, I take full advantage of it by blasting my amp at every opportunity I can get. I'm too in love with the sound of my rig to forsake it for a simulation. I love feedback. I love the feel of 2 12" speakers vibrating the floor under my feet. I love the interaction between my instrument and my amp, the dynamics attainable by only my picking hand, the change in character attainable by a simple adjustment of my guitar's volume and tone knobs.

...I haven't had a good modelling vs. micing rant for a while, had to get that out of my system :-D


Prince CZAR-ming
Member
Since: Apr 08, 2004


Feb 15, 2010 04:35 pm

Here's a real impressive strat sound a guy on Reaper board got:

shup.com/Shup/216267/blackface.mp3

The thread is a long one:
forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=41429

but it shows some interesting possibilities and ideas for building an AMP-SIM rig for free (or almost).

Marijuana Czar
Member
Since: Oct 01, 2009


Feb 16, 2010 07:34 am

Hey thanks for your replies

What about a DI box?
I've heard that it might help me.

Btw, I plug my guitar straight into the mixer's line in, can I plug my guitar into my amp then use the output of it to go into the mixer? Or would the Zenyx mic preamps **** up with the amp??

http://www.reverbnation.com/2ndg
Member
Since: Nov 27, 2007


Feb 16, 2010 08:13 am

yeah you can do that, but only go into a "line in" on the mixer.

No mic line ins, or you could kill alot of things.

Mic line ins are for mics only.

what style guitars are you looking at? distortion/fuzz, or clean?

Member
Since: Sep 30, 2009


Feb 16, 2010 08:35 am

Well, if you've got any sort of cash i'd say go for either the Line 6 UX1 or UX2 ($150 and $200, respectively). Id imagine without any low-latency ASIO drivers for your soundcard, it'd be lagging like crazy if you used any soft of modeling software to process the signal. UX1 and UX2 both come with pod farm. The only difference is the UX1 has 1 input, UX2 has two. So if you either wanted to mic and acoustic guitar and record the output from its pickup from the same take, you'd need a UX2. Or if you had a buddy over, and he played bass while you played guitar, UX2 is the way to go.

You can try the DI out from your amp. You might get decent clean tones actually. But the distortion sounds terrible. So if your style of music uses absolutely no distortion (even light) You could probably still get decent recordings out of it.

@ Tadpui, I'm not sure what my problem with micing my amp was but i could just not get a good sound out of it. Likely my speakers (2x12) were not up to par. And maybe the room ambiance as Deon suggested. I don't imagine much noise would get in there but i could be wrong. Either way, my guitars were sounding like low-budget knock-offs of low-budget albums. Nothing a modern high-gain guy could be satisfied with. As you said however, the in between gain settings work well mic'd up. And that "Low-Budget" feel i was talking about earlier then becomes more of a cool "70's-80's" recording vibe.

I will admit, i miss my amp quite a bit (Sold it to a good friend, actually a friend who pretty much taught me guitar so its in good hands). I do miss the floors booming, which i often don't get out of my PA. But i don't miss my ears ringing after a 20 minute jam, I don't miss ticking off the family by getting a new idea i just HAD to try out at 2 in the morning (i don't sleep much lol). And i like being able to adjust my amp tone after recording. Honestly, even if i landed a record deal some day, while writing i'd probably still use modeling. I do agree with you that modeling hasn't quite beaten out real amps yet. But considering the progress made in 10-15 years, its interesting to think of where these things will go 100 years from now. I don't think its unreasonable to say that one day in the DISTANT future, the tone with modeling will be more desirable to most people than even a studio quality recording of an amp. And they may get much better at your style of tones as well. Maybe modeling amps will replace tube amps (like i said, just and off thought and if it did ever happen, VERY distant future). But for right now, as a songwriter, i find the convenience, quality, and price of modeling to be the number 1 solution for someone in my position.

Eh, i just had to counter rant ya (:

Marijuana Czar
Member
Since: Oct 01, 2009


Feb 16, 2010 08:50 am

i have a dodgy amp, it's one u get in a basic beginners guitar pack
lol, i upgraded everything else before my amp, im now regretting it.

So what about buying a DI box? What's the deal with them??, I dont know much about em other than my friend said its what i need to boost the sound n get rid of the hum.. is he right?

Deon: I want to record clean atm, but I try and get all different sounds, Im a huge fan of my Fuzz pedal though

Marijuana Czar
Member
Since: Oct 01, 2009


Feb 16, 2010 10:21 am

Is it better to use an amp out to the mixer or is it better to plug the guitar straight into the mixer??
Im confused as hell now.
DI or amp? or both? let me know what you think

As for the eq on the mixer, it's rly sad. 3-band. so i bought a graphic eq guitar pedal with like 10 band, and even after eq-ing it, then putting it through the mixer, it sounds bad.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Feb 16, 2010 10:25 am

Never plug a guitar straight into the mixer...you will need either a DI box or a modeler between the guitar and mixer, or a mic from an amp.

I go the modeling route myself just for ease of use, and modelers, such as the ones found in the aforementioned Line 6 UX2 and UX2 are very, very nice sounding.

Marijuana Czar
Member
Since: Oct 01, 2009


Feb 16, 2010 10:47 am

Deleted By pipedreams

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Feb 16, 2010 10:49 am

yeah, something like that would work for direct recording, though I have never seen it before, some behringer models from the V-Amp products were/are pretty decent...if V-Amp is still even produced, I dunno...a graphic EQ after it would be fine...tho I like recording things flat and EQing them while mixing.

Marijuana Czar
Member
Since: Oct 01, 2009


Feb 16, 2010 11:01 am

lol i deleted that coz i was still looking n i found other stuff.
i just realised that my multi fx pedal has amp modelling, it's an Digitech RP50, and it has cabinet modelling for use with a mixer!
But with that, I'll still have to get a DI right?

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002


Feb 16, 2010 11:03 am

That should work as a DI itself me thinks...

I am not a crook's head
Member
Since: Mar 14, 2003


Feb 16, 2010 12:42 pm

Yup, the RP50 will serve as a preamp, which will bring your signal up to line level (which is what a DI would have done). So you'll plug your RP50 into a Line input on your mixer (not a mic input).

Glad you already had a solution handy! Those RP units are good for the money. Nothing wrong with them. The modelling from Line 6 or Native Instruments will be of higher quality, but the Digitech units will still be a huge improvement over plugging straight into the mixer.

Sorry I kind of hijacked the thread a bit earlier, I always have something to say in the modelling vs. microphone debate :-)

Marijuana Czar
Member
Since: Oct 01, 2009


Feb 16, 2010 06:16 pm

line input? as in not the xlr?

*nevermind

Marijuana Czar
Member
Since: Oct 01, 2009


Feb 16, 2010 06:24 pm

sorry to keep asking a bunch of questions, but If I use the RP50, it's still just gonna be going into the line in meaning it will be unbalanced right?
should I buy a DI ontop of this or wouldnt that do anything?

I am not a crook's head
Member
Since: Mar 14, 2003


Feb 16, 2010 06:57 pm

It's OK that its unbalanced. Balanced I/O and cables are just a way of keeping unwanted noise under control for longer cable runs or in very electronically noisy environments. You can go from an unbalanced output into a balanced input (and vice-versa) with no problems.

And you're correct that you wouldn't plug the RP50 into the XLR input of your mixer. More than likely, an XLR will be a microphone input. The RP50 will output a line-level signal. So probably a regular 1/4" instrument cable will work to connect it to your mixer.

Marijuana Czar
Member
Since: Oct 01, 2009


Feb 16, 2010 07:21 pm

Awesome I think I've got a good enough understanding now to get something done, thanks heaps for your replies

One of the reasons I like this site is that there's many ppl who have been in or are in the same boat as you, and know what you need/want to hear lol, it's a lil like talking to a producer or a band mate except you dont have to give them any of your weed to get help lol.
Cheers!

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