complete noob... wanting to record.. :( help!
Home > Home Recording Forum > Recording Techniques > complete noob... wanting to record.. :( help!
Posted on Jan 06, 2010 07:16 pm
nebdrummer
Member Since: Dec 28, 2009
alright guys and gals, well ive skimmed around here for a while, and figure'd i'd post up my situation.
my band is in the process of writing songs. we live 90 miles apart, and are trying to make "demo's" for each other and just in general wanting to get to recording our own stuff.
im the drummer in the band, and just got my whole mic set. audix fusion 7 pc. i know its not the best of the best, but im hoping everything will work. for a mixer, we have a yamaha EMX312sc.
as far as computers go, my guitarist has a good desktop with the old cubase LE recording setup on it.
my computer... well, i was wondering how this little guy would work? just for recording? i would just use the same recording software my guitarist is.
www.walmart.com/catalog/p...uct_id=12456228
ive heard that the laptops give off a buzzing sound when recording, but if i would disconnect the batt, and just have it plugged into the wall, wouldnt that work just fine?
hope thats not too much info guys, i would appreciate any help/questions/nagging...
thanks much!
[ Back to Top ]
Jan 06, 2010 08:08 pm as far as a laptop causing a buzzing noise, just plug your laptop into another outlet on a different breaker and get it off the same neutral return as the other one or use a
'ground lift"...i use my laptop for recording during practice and dont have any issues. as far as it being the battery, its actually the charger or ac adapter giving off that buzz kinda like flouresent lights. i would highly suggest using the same software between ya'll. it just makes things alot easier and sharing different techniques is always a plus. we started using cubase that came with the lexicon units. we all got one when they were on sale and went from there. just suggestions and if you need any help just holla......good luck
Jan 06, 2010 11:21 pm awesome... so you think just that little mini laptop should be enough to make a good recording?
Jan 07, 2010 12:02 am I usually don't interject on recording post too much. But I'm afraid I have to correct you a little jeepchris.
All homes only have a single service coming into the home. So no matter which outlet you go to, it will be the same neutral. Going to a different breaker will do nothing.
Also, with any audio equipment, you want them all in the same ground plain. Any difference between to different grounds or neutrals, will cause a potential. Any potential greater then .5V will cause a buzz, hum, etc.
Ned, what they are talking about with laptops causing a buzz in the recording. Is that the screen is grounded to the motherboard. The buzz is the screen refresh rate.
LCD, and LED sreens cause this issue because the "D" stands for a Diode. And, without going into to extreme detail on this. A diode will cause a buzz on a DC circuit.
Now jeepchris is right about putting a ground lift on your computer. Most of the time, it will reduce the screen noise. Or even eliminate it all together.
As for weather it's beefy enough for recording. I couldn't tell you. Someone should be able to tell you that here soon.
Jan 07, 2010 11:18 am If your going to be recording multiple tracks even one at a time you want at least 4 gigs of ram so your comp doesn't read to slow. if it does read to slow your count will be off, and it will completely destroy your mix. and in some cases the comp wont even work under high stress conditions so be careful about how much work your going to be doing. other than that if you keep the stress to a minimum it should be ok. As for Rob Stemple's post, he gave you good advise you have to ground everything to exclude or reduce ambient noise. sometimes a really good serge protector can help you do that.
CptTrippsCzar of Turd PolishMember
Since: Jun 20, 2006
Jan 07, 2010 12:49 pm I'll chime in on laptops as well. I record 8 tracks at once on my laptop with 3GB of ram, it could do so with less imo as it has zero problems. I would not want to try 1GB but feel 2GB would be more than adequate unless working in larger projects. On laptops causing noise, I have never had that issue wether on battery or plugged in.
Recording eight 5 minute wavs, at about 50MB per wav file you end up with 400MB of files that your PC needs readily accessible. Sure there is more going on that will require ram usage (OS, programs) but in my experience after recording on several different PC's throughout the years, the CPU makes the biggest difference.
What "I" think is going to kill you on that notebook mentioned is the ATOM processor, it may be up to the task but I have my doubts. I would look for a cheap dual core if nothing else.
Last but not least, if it doesn't work Wal Mart is pretty good about returns.
Jan 07, 2010 01:25 pm great, thanks for all the info guys.
well ill do some more shopping around and see what i can come up with for a good laptop. so it seems its a definite must to get the ground lift no matter what.
and yes, i will be recording 6-7 separate tracks at once. so ill look for something in the 3-4 gig range.
anything else i should be aware of?
thanks again!
Quincysanhttp://www.unitedmusicians.infoContributor
Since: Nov 11, 2007
Jan 07, 2010 01:47 pm No way on the netbook; and it has nothing to do with memory.
As Cpt said the single core processor is strike one (hyper threading helps but its not the real thing), the front side bus speed of 533 MHz is strike 2 and strike 3.
Try this notebook in that price range instead: www.newegg.com/Product/Pr...N82E16834157036
Cheap dual core processor with 3200 MHz bus speed. Comes stock with everything you'll need on the computing end. You would be hard pressed to find a better value for a notebook anywhere.
To anyone who follows computer hardware technology:
I just found out that the front side bus as a separate component on the motherboard is starting to become antiquated technology. AMD uses a branded technology called Hypertransport that puts the FSB clock on the processor itself (Hypertransport is abbreviated HT. Not to be confused with Hyperthreading; which emulates multi-core processing). Intel has also put the FSB clock on the processor itself, but they call it Quick Path Interconnect (QPI).
Quincysanhttp://www.unitedmusicians.infoContributor
Since: Nov 11, 2007
Jan 07, 2010 01:49 pm Also: Newegg is incredible about returns. I fried the motherboard I put into my first custom computer and sent it back to them...it was all charred and very obviously abused but they sent me a new one all the same. You have 30 days to send it back if you don't like it.
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Jan 07, 2010 05:43 pm Yeah, i'll chime in here too.
Don't get that mini for recording, unless you want to be taxing it out a lot.
You say you're the drummer, and have a 7 pc mic set, and a mixer. But you don't mention interface. Will you be mixing the 7 signals down to 1 or 2, then recording to the PC.
* edit * saw your 6 or 7 tracks at a time.
This will work, and keep your costs down. But you probably will want a better interface than what's built into a regular pc / laptop.
If you're going to be using this for mostly recording, and dedicating the PC to that task, then look over at Tigerdirect (or newegg) for a refurb DELL desktop or some such. You can get dual-core with 60g drive, and 1 or 2g ram for pretty cheap. Then just add an interface and you'll be in decent shape. The maudio 2496 will bring in 2 channels, and the card is stable and fast.
Also, you don't need 4 g minimum to record with. I record 2 tracks on my laptop (1.6ghz centrino, 512m ram) pretty often, and it works OK. I don't mix a ton of tracks with it, but for tracking and small projects its OK.
My main rig is 1g ram, and i've tracked 6 at a time. So 2gig ram would be OK if you're trying to keep costs down.
I've watched my memory usage when mixing (reaper) and rarely go above 500m, even with garritan orchestra running several instruments.
hth
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Jan 07, 2010 05:46 pm Oh yeah, if you're on a laptop, recording 6 or 7 tracks at a time, then you may want to look at the tascam 1641, or a presonus firestudio, or the line6 UX8 (which Cpt Tripps uses).
These all have 8 xlr preamps on them, so you can record 8 at a time.
I know MOTU has some boxes that input 8 without preamps, but I think they're more $$$.
And I don't have any noise when recording on my laptop. It's much quieter than my studio rig. I often have the laptop in the same room as the source.
Jan 07, 2010 07:15 pm sweet.. lots of info to take in. ill keep looking up with them laptops. thanks for that.
now, as far as the interface, do i need this? i do have that yamaha mixer with 12 channels. i figured i could get a set of rca ends with 1/8th on the other end, going from the rec out on the amp and hook the pink input on the computer. then use my guitarists program from there?
would this work still? or am i also going to have an interface? i guess im still missing the point of an interface if theres a mixer in use already. and hey, like i said, im a noob! :)
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Jan 07, 2010 07:48 pm no prob, we all were (or are)
the mixer gives you, lets say, 6 preamps. This is necessary to boost the mic signal up to line level, that the PC likes to use.
So the mixer has 6 individual signals, so now you want them inside the PC. So you need what's similar to a sound card: converts analog signal (sine wave) over to digital (bits and bytes).
Normally, on a PC with built-in soundcard, you get 2 channels, with possibly 1 channel of MIC input, or maybe 2 for LINE input, usually on the same 1/8" jack.
Most times, the soundcard on a PC is quite cheap, being made of very cheap components, to keep the price of motherboard down, so they're more competitive, pricewise. This is bad for audio, as the converters can be very cheap, and the circuitry can introduce much latency, meaning the time it takes for audio to come into the PC as analog, get converted, processed, re-converted back to analog, and sent to your speakers. Cheaper components may do this slowly, and poorly.
So now we start looking at audio interfaces. The interface does basically the same functions but offer better conversion, lower latency, and more flexible features than stock soundcards.
So if you want to send 6 channels of audio from the mixer into the PC as individual channels, then you'll need an interface that has at least 6 individual channels, or inputs. An example of this would be the Line6 UX8, or presonus firestudio, or delta 1010. These are USB, Firewire and PCI, respectively.
So, you can use the onboard sound, but be limited to 2 channels, and maybe not be too happy with the sound. But, there are lots of people who use the onboard sound for a lot of work, and don't have any problems, so I will say it's certainly possible.
And yes, after you get the signal into the PC though (hopefully) the line in, then you should be able to record it with the Cubase that you mentioned. If you use the onboard sound, then the onboard sound is the interface. Those two terms are somewhat switchable: soundcard = audio interface.
If you use the MIC in, then you will be using the preamp built in to the onboard sound, which I would highly NOT recommend. First, it's only mono, so only 1 channel, and second: the preamp is a very important part of your sound, so don't use the cheapest components available ;)
hope this helps.
Jan 07, 2010 09:19 pm ok... so again, lots of info, and kinda confusing.. as hell.. haha
so basically you are saying, i cant make a good sounding recording with my drums with JUST a mixer and computer.. and i NEED an interface and computer to make up for shitty computer parts nowadays?
mixer is pointless then? im pretty sure i can still return it..
looking at the Tascam 10 channel. no needed additional power for recording?
and now im seeing that it hooks up with the USB ports? then everything is detected from there?
Jan 08, 2010 08:51 am anyone? i need to know if i can return that mixer of mine. can i do all my recording and what i need without that powered mixer?
CptTrippsCzar of Turd PolishMember
Since: Jun 20, 2006
Jan 08, 2010 01:32 pm It's not that you can't get a good tone with a mixer for drums, but you would not have control over any of the individual drums once tracked. You would have a stereo file only, if your kick sounds thin then you have no way of tweaking just the kick.
With an 8 channel interface you can capture each drum mic to its own track and therefore have very precise control and tweakability over each drum.
I would say to get a good drum capture using "just" a mixer you would need some outboard compressors and a far more powerfull EQ (31 band stereo probably) and possibly a reverb unit to get the drums sounding decent before capture.
But yes, you can do everything without the powered mixer if you get a proper 8 channel interface. Most will come with phantom power for condensors and by removing the mixer you are also shortening the audio chain which is never a bad thing with consumer level audio devices.
Just remember, get the best sound you can with mic placement and then get used to EQ/Compressing etc.. in the daw. If your bandmate knows his stuff he can probably tweak a nice sound if you provide nice clean tracks to work with.
I use the line6 UX8 and 8 mics (I used to use the Audix F series as well, they work fine but I upgraded to the D series) for maximum control of each drum. You could easily do this with any 8 channel interface that has the XLR inputs you need and some phantom power.
The mentioned UX8, Presonus Firestudio, Motu 8 pre are all good devices at a decent price. I personally love my UX8 as I can do all the line6 modeling on guitars, bass and vox as well.
When seriously tracking I use...
1 Kick - Audix D6
1 Floor - Audix D4
1 Rack - Audix D2
1 Snare - Audix D1
2 OH - Rhode NT5
1 Hats - Samson C04
1 Room mic about 15-20 feet away (my room situation determines this) - Rhode K2
When jamming around I don't use the hats or room mic as I use those two mic inputs for guitars.
Check my drums on "Gypsy" under my profile if you like. All natural drum tones. The other song "No more goodbyes" is an example of using drumagog on the kick and snare, that recording is years old and far from perfect though. I am much better now after reading tips, trying techniques and just plain doing it via trail and error for 5 years straight now. I actually lack in other areas as I spent soooo much time concentrating on drums.
Hope this helps you get where you need to be.
edit: On 8 channel interfaces, yes, you plug in via USB and then launch your DAW (Cubase LE). Tell your DAW to use your interface and you will then have the option to tell each track what input it should record from. Mine are labeled Mono1 through Mono8, it's pretty simple actually once you get the concept down.
Interface, cables, mics and a PC are all you need.
Jan 08, 2010 01:40 pm awesome.. thats what i needed to hear i guess. thank you very much guys for all your help..
ill be sure to check out your drums as well.
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Jan 08, 2010 02:37 pm well, the mixer isn't useless, it fits a need. my interface doesn't have built in preamps (well, 2 actually) so I need more preamps for when I track 6 or 8 channels.
If your interface has preamps built in, then no, you don't need a mixer. Just plug in all channels to the interface, and you're all set.
So if you want more than 2 channels at a time, you'll need a interface with more channels.
If you want to drive passive speakers for monitoring, then you'll need some sort of amplifier, which could be done with the powered mixer. If your monitor speakers are self powered, then you won't need an amplifer, as the speakers will have them built in. So an interface would be all you need.
Think of all the components:
Microphone (may need phantom)
Preamp (may be built into interface, or mixer, or standalone)
Converters (Analog -> Digital A/D, usually built into soundcard, or interface)
Computer bus (connected via USB, Firewire, PCI, ISA)
Software (Sonar, Protools, Cubase, Logic, DP, Reaper, etc)
Outbound computer bus (usually same as inbound, but could be different)
Converters (Digital -> Analog D/A; soundcard or interface)
Monitors (powered or passive) or headphones
Sometimes some of these components are built together, sometimes they're separate. It's variable how each is for you, but as along as each part of the chain is there, then your rig should do what it's supposed to do.
Jan 08, 2010 06:56 pm awesome recording on no more goodbyes tripps. sounded real good and clean.
alright, so i take it this tascam 1641 only has 4 preamps..? or am i just confusing this with something else? you said it would work with 6-7 imputs though?
"there are four balanced line inputs for interfacing with synths, effects, mic preamps, or anything with a line level out."
www.guitarcenter.com/Tasc...081-i1368640.gc
sorry for all the questions... just learnin
Jan 11, 2010 01:28 pm anyone? will the tascam work for my 7 mic setup? or do i need something bigger?
am i reading it right when the tascam says it only has 4 preamps?
CptTrippsCzar of Turd PolishMember
Since: Jun 20, 2006
Jan 11, 2010 01:39 pm The tascam will work indeed. 8 pre's and phantom power and a great price atm.
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Jan 12, 2010 01:56 pm
No, there's 8 preamps. That's the 8 XLR inputs on the front. Not the greatest picture, but you can see them.
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Jan 12, 2010 01:58 pm Line inputs are 1/4" jacks, accepting LINE level signals, like what comes from a keyboard output, or a preamp output.
XLR preamp jacks accept MIC level signal, which comes from microphones. They are different, LINE level being approx 10x larger than MIC level (generally).
So you can use LINE inputs, instead of 4 of the XLR inputs, if you want to record something other than Microphones.
CptTrippsCzar of Turd PolishMember
Since: Jun 20, 2006
Jan 12, 2010 03:07 pm Anyone know? Are those tascams linkable for a 16 channel setup? That is a great price...
edit: does not look like it, still alot of input though if you have another couple pre's to hook up, probably pair great with a mixer or some standalone units.
Jan 14, 2010 05:36 pm I'm jumping into this thread on the side of nebdrummer: seeking information. I'm in the market for an 8 channel interface- thank you PJK for the suggestions. Those all look good. Would there be any practical difference between firewire and USB 2.0? I know firewire is "faster", but thats where my knowledge ends. I'm asking because I have these damn contrasting character flaws: I want the best gear, but I want to pay the least amount of money. Its a real *****.....
Jan 15, 2010 01:21 pm thanks for the replies guys. tascam should be here monday or tuesday.
now looking at computers.
hows this ?
www.tigerdirect.com/appli...&CatId=4938
figured what the hell, want something good and to last me a while. opinions?
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Jan 15, 2010 01:42 pm I don't think there's really much effective difference between the two, but more high end components use FW, where more 'budget friendly' devices are USB.
I'm sure you can see where i'm going with this.
FW may be considered a better platform for higher-end ambitions, but for people that are budget-conscious, then USB2 may be just as good, but not so spendy.
I know that some firewire devices are finicky about what Chipset is in the FW controller, Texas Instruments being the one that works, so if you can check your controller chip before purchasing a FW device, then you may avoid some headaches.
Cpt Tripps above has been using the UX8 for awhile, with good results, so I certainly wouldn't hesitate picking one up, if I was in the market.
-> nebdrummer; i don't know much about the new laptops, but it sure looks a treat to me =). Both my laptops added together wouldn't even come close to yours.
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Jan 15, 2010 01:46 pm I will add, re: FW vs USB. Sweetwater did a build-up where he had like 100+ tracks being recorded over a single FW connection, with MOTU and a MAC G5 or similar. Pretty impressive. He had 4 interfaces chained together.
I can't find it now, darn it.
CptTrippsCzar of Turd PolishMember
Since: Jun 20, 2006
Jan 15, 2010 04:23 pm The UX8 is a fantastic piece of gear if.... you will never need to record more than 8 tracks at once. I use 8 on just drums soooo... I will never be able to track a band live with it and retain the level of control I require for each track (unless I went 4mics on drums, booooo).
Myself, I don't mind tracking my songs in sections and actually prefer it. I have lost a couple prospects due to the "no live jams" aspect. Sure I could run a mixer into the UX8 and they may even be happy with it but I would not.
Jan 16, 2010 10:07 pm sweeeet. well that was enough to convince me then. computer will be here on the 20th.
so, we recorded a scratch track of some of our music. only had 2 xlr plugins on his lexicon box, so just went with the snare and bass just to mess around with recording drums. and well, the snare mic picks up just about all the cymbals as well. haha.
like i said before, its the audix fusion kit
snare mic is an F-12.
do you think im gonna be able to drown out the cymbal sound when i get everything else hooked up to the Tascam? or should i invest in a new snare mic?
CptTrippsCzar of Turd PolishMember
Since: Jun 20, 2006
Jan 19, 2010 01:08 pm Mic bleed is a part of life, but the snare should be far more audbile than any cymbal. A lot of tracking drums comes down to the player, no two ways about it. I take the led zep route, try and pound the skins and take it a little easier on the brass.
On your mics, F12 on the snare is not quite right.
F10 = Snare and Rack Toms
F12 = Floor Tom or Jazz Kick
F14 = Kick
F15 = OH's
Also remember, OH's are some of the heart and soul of your drum track. I like to get the Kick and OH sounding nice together, then bring up the snare mic until audbile but not overpowering the snare coming through the OH mics. Use the same strategy with the toms as well. If you bring them up (snare, toms) too high they will sound flat/dull/lifeless. You want that life the OH's provide and the best way to do this is mixing the signals instead of trying to get "just snare" or "just cymbals" through any particular mic.
Last but not least, room mic. Not a requirement but definitely something to aim for in the future. Mine is an LDC that sits about 15' away from my drums. The OH's do provide life to your drums but a room mic will add much more and make them sound very natural. There is a cool video on youtube where this guy plays the drums while soloing mics (room, close, OH) so you can hear the differences between the different setups. I will try and find it as it makes my point very well.
Jan 25, 2010 10:59 am mike placement is the key you can mix on to one track and sound good.mikes need to be in phase with each other for sure which in this case same distance from kit(if sound hits one mike before the other then one sound is recorded before the other therefore being out of phase which with multiple mikes causes problems).you need to gate mics to keep down one mic picking up to much of the other drum pieces witch should take care of most phase problem.i was wondering too 90 miles apart are you recording to give your ideas to each other to build on alone?if so you should check out reaper it has a fx chain program call ninjam so you can connect over the internet with each other and jam together and record the jam session also.
Jan 25, 2010 07:10 pm sweet man.. thanks for that.. i will be recording for me and for some band "practices" if you will. that would work pretty sweet.
ill also look into gating the mic's.
just got my tascam 1641 in today, and im assuming this is something simple.. or hoping so, but the instalation says its made for a 32 bit setup, not 64.. i went to tascams site, and downloaded the 1.02 version for 64 bit windows. got my cubase to recognise the tascam, set up all the tascam channels with the corresponding line in on cubase. and there was no sound. after messing around for about 2 hours, still with no sound, i tried to download the other 64 bit patch for vista/xp and now it wont even finish a download. ive deleted old ones, uninstalled old ones, rebooted and still no luck.. and I SOL with my windows 7 64 bit?
