Performing Band Rules

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Czar of Cheese
Member Since: Jun 09, 2004

Okay, so I know I live in small-town Wisconsin, and I know that it's a far cry from a gigging band hot-spot. But I've just about had it with one of the venues around here at which we occasionally play. Every band that plays there has to agree to a litany of rules that they have laminated and stapled to the stage. Most of them are fairly common sense and obvious and some aren't. They're very worried about noise levels. One time we played there, they had a strobe light off to the side of the stage hooked up to a decibel meter. The strobe light was set to flash whenever the stage level got above 90 dB (Which was pretty much the whole time we played.) No original songs are allowed. No pimping upcoming gigs at other venues. No performing at the other venue across the street...ever...not if you want to play here.

Then today, I got this new e-mail from them:

[quote]
Dear Performing Bands,
As you know, our dining room and stage area is somewhat small and it doesn’t take much volume to fill the room with music. Please be aware of your volume levels. In order for your sound tech to mix your performance, you will need to keep your amps turned way down or side wash them. We request that you keep your db levels at the closest dining room opening at 95 and the db level by the sound board or second dining room open at 90. Our DJ & security will help you with this, as always.

As you are aware, we provide a snake which is located by the entrance to the dining room from the bar. This is the dedicated location for the sound board. This saves the booth and floor space for our paying customers. You must mix from this area.

Please check in with the DJ and share your play list with him, so he can be ready to start the DJ music immediately at the conclusion of your last song before your break. Please start on time and keep your breaks to 15 minutes.

We have started using a band performance report tabulating set times, song selection, number of people on the dance floor, etc., for our records. This report will be completed by the DJ each night and turned in to us at the end of the evening. Hopefully this will help us provide the best performance possible for our customers.

We appreciate your cooperation and your efforts in bringing your fan base with you for your performance. Please share any suggestions you may have on ways to improve our band performances and band evenings.

[/quote]

Yeah...I get it...they're trying to run a business. Well, I'll never set foot in the place again.

Anyway...my question is: Is this typical of venues in places where you play? Do they log your set lists and count the dancers? Do they time your breaks? Is there a scripted set of rules by which you must abide, or else?

Maybe I'm just being a small town hick or a stubborn old man. But it seems like they're sucking all of the fun right out of the gig!

Has everyone forgotten that Rock and Roll is all about sticking it to the Man?

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Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Nov 14, 2009 08:01 pm

I have to admit that is the most absurd list I have ever seen. I guess I've seen some small town bars with some rules but nothing of that nature. It sounds like they don't know what they want to be. A fine dinning establishment or a bar with music. If their that worried about the sound in the dinning room, then don't have band's.

And as for no original's. WTF is that about? I don't know any bar that would not allow that.

And around here, if they sell booze then that is how they rate a band. Not by how many folks are not the dance floor, or what the set list was.

My thought is that the crowd the band brings in is a bonus for the bar and they should cater to the folks that would not normally come to that bar. I know some around here do. Waitresses tend to be more accommodating to those they don't see accept with a band that has a good drawing.

But it sounds like playing across the road is a good idea now. And that rule right there is a bad bad thing. Bars around here love bands that get around. In hopes that fans might come from other bars or area's to watch this band at their bar after seeing them at another bar.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Nov 14, 2009 08:11 pm

Actually no originals was a common rule when I played around the cities...not a formal rule, but they would schedule the bands that played originals for a different night...weekends they wanted all covers of popular music people knew and they'd have "originals night" on tuesday or something...there were many times we'd get done for the night the first time we played some venue and they said we had too many original songs so they'd schedule us different next time...

Much like some of the better places wanted nothing but original music.

Czar of Cheese
Member
Since: Jun 09, 2004

Nov 14, 2009 09:15 pm

Yeah...their little laminated list of rules said (and I quote), "No original songs are to be played. No one wants to hear them anyways"

We used to play them anyhow. We'd always say, "Here's an obscure old Beatles tune", and then we'd play one of our own. The people listening knew the songs were ours because they'd heard them before (and often requested some of them.) The owners never had a clue!

Nothing like stickin' it to the Man! ;-)

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Nov 14, 2009 09:19 pm

Quote:
Here's an obscure old Beatles tune

I love it. That wold be the way to do it though, especially with a clueless bar owner.

Member
Since: Mar 12, 2008

Nov 14, 2009 09:58 pm

Here in St. Louis it's all about selling tickets and booze, but there are only like 4 good places to play and one of em isn't even in St. Louis. But yea those rules are totally lame, I wouldn't be able to handle that place, more power to ya.

I am not a crook's head
Member
Since: Mar 14, 2003

Nov 15, 2009 12:07 am

Whoever manages that venue has to be one of the most out of touch people I've ever even heard of! Oh my god, I'm actually offended by just reading that list. That's one of the most retarded things I've ever read, and certainly the most retarded and restrictive list of rules I've ever read for a local club venue.

So here are their next rules to be added:
- Please, no people of color in your band or crew. If you must employ people of color, they may use the dedicated rear entrance.
- Blue eyes and blonde hair are preferred. Hats and sunglasses are required for anybody who fails to meet this criteria.
- Fascist propaganda will be handed out during your set breaks and after your show.

What a freakin' bizarre control freak they have running things over there.

Oh man yeah definitely go play that venue across the street, play it often, draw a crowd, and take that other ****-hole down!

Eat Spam before it eats YOU!!!
Member
Since: May 11, 2002

Nov 15, 2009 01:06 am

yeah, the no originals is extremely odd...here in Ohio the rule would be rewritten "No covers. Nobody wants you to butcher their favorite song."

actually the only rule I really remember is no 'side to side' moshing... ie you can jump around but not punch people...

Byte-Mixer
Member
Since: Dec 04, 2007

Nov 15, 2009 01:44 am

While I'm not a performer really, much less in a band, I have to agree with everyone's sentiments here.

Whoever is managing that place is an idjit for constricting the performers so much. Yeah sure they're trying to draw crowds and bring in money, but you know, if the performers are having a good time...usually the crowd will have a good time, and tell their friends. Or, at least that seems to be the case from what I've seen at the few weddings and bars I've been to hehe.

So yeah, if the rules don't jive with you, you've got every right to play more often at more friendly establishments. Indeed, I would call it a sort of poetic justice if the guy loses customers because bands refuse to put up with such restrictive rules.

But yeah with lists and tallying numbers like that...the idiot's just going to shoot himself in the foot once bands start refusing to play there.

Frisco's Most Underrated
Member
Since: Jan 28, 2003

Nov 15, 2009 03:04 am

It's like I can see what they're trying to do, but I think they're quite misguided, and this will prolly make bands not want to play there. But honestly, I think Noize hit the nail on the head. They need to decide if they want to be a fine dining establishment or a venue. But I think maybe they'll just start booking some accoustic jazz trio or quartets or something...

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Nov 15, 2009 07:16 am

Ummmmm, well, in all fairness, that venue may have had some bad original bands in it, I can think of a few I'd have rather not heard over the years...

The Czar of BS
Member
Since: Dec 31, 2007

Nov 15, 2009 04:24 pm

Here in Philly, we don't have the no originals rule. We do how ever have a few venues with a strict dB level policy.

And that comes from the city it's self. In some residential areas, you can not exceed 95 dB A weighted.

If you do, and some resident calls it in. The club can be fined $10,000 or more. Depending on the numbers of calls previous.

As for the clubs that just have the insanity rules posted all over the venue. The bands around here will not stand for that sort of thing. And refuse to play such a venue.

As a result, these clubs must go outside of the area to book acts. And needless to say, the bands only play there once. And the club never seems to be a huge success.

I would do what everyone else is suggesting. And that is to play the club across the street. And forget that the place in question ever existed.

http://www.reverbnation.com/2ndg
Member
Since: Nov 27, 2007

Nov 16, 2009 09:25 am

man, it happens in every work place, things are running good, then they employ some pencil neck geek to come in and maximize business performance.

i find this most on mine sites. they go ******* mad changing this and that so they can justify themselves being employed to the powers that be, to the point where things defy logic.

they are basicly paid to come up with new and original ideas,
they have zero trade skills and zero knowledge of the real work culture going on out there, yet they are making decisions on your safety, based on friggin theories, based on statistcs! then set them in stone, and they wonder why people get killed and they cant see why, "if they were following the procedure then this shouldnt have happened."
@#!$% ^%#$!

if you want someone to build you a house, you dont go get a friggin bartender to do it now do you.
So they shouldnt get a "safety officer", trained up in a video room, to organize a seasoned tradies safety.
i'll end it there. i can feel my blood boiling.

anyway the reason i brought it up is because of the comment:

Quote
"We have started using a band performance report tabulating set times, song selection, number of people on the dance floor, etc., for our records. This report will be completed by the DJ each night and turned in to us at the end of the evening. Hopefully this will help us provide the best performance possible for our customers."

ha ha ha, you got yerself a nerd with an "exclusive idea" (of course) there.
music and peoples entertainment/enjoyment, cant be analysed and managed into a fail safe, economically proficient, money making machine, by some dick with a file full of reports and stats.
its not a workshop.

i could go on.

IMO, we are in the age of "the dick with the bright idea"
People are turning exclusivley to stats and protocols, in hope to get the very best efficiency for absolutley everything.

on paper stats and protocols and fantasy stories "always" work out. and thats whats wrong with them

There are some things in life that need to be done by feel.
the worlds gone mad on control.

end rant.






Typo Szar
Member
Since: Jul 04, 2002

Nov 16, 2009 09:47 am

Preach it Deon Preach it on High

Pinnipedal Czar (: 3=
Member
Since: Apr 11, 2004

Nov 16, 2009 10:56 am

Wow Jim. That is just plain dumb of them. I think that they wont see the error of their ways until after it's too late, and they start looking to the ******* that made up that list to answer the question "Where has our customer base gone?". Of course he will, in order to save his ***, blame the bands that showed them their error. Sad to say, at the least. They will most likely become something that they didn't set out to be... or die-out.

There are venues here in the Metro Detroit area, and surrounding burbs that, like dB pointed out, reserve the hot nights for cover bands that have a higher draw. There are also a few places that save those same nights for bands that refuse to play covers, however getting paid to perform your own works is simply not the same. A cover band, playing out on a Saturday night, might get paid up to $1500 at the 'right' establishment.(Even if they suck... ask WYD about the band we seen at a place we used to frequent when he came to visit... hilarious, but they were paid quite large to be a terrible 80's cover band.)

I've never seen a list of rules like that posted in any place I've played in this area. They really are cutting their own throats. I'm glad you have another place to play so close to them, so they can look out their window, and watch the dollars float accross the steet.

Czar of Turd Polish
Member
Since: Jun 20, 2006

Nov 16, 2009 01:11 pm

Wow, I would personally boycott said club and never play there again. But... I would definitely inform said owner, that way when the DJ makes a report of why bands don't want to play anymore they know exactly why.

Sounds like the bar across the street needs to become the new hotspot.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Nov 16, 2009 01:16 pm

Yeah, I agree with Hue...the business of covers is vastly different from the business of playing your own stuff. I had generally found it's different fans, different venues, different venue owners...very different pay structure.

http://www.reverbnation.com/2ndg
Member
Since: Nov 27, 2007

Nov 16, 2009 07:59 pm

@crux,
mmm, yeah i vaugely remember posting something last night.

Seems i had my soapbox with me too.

i thought i threw that thing out.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Nov 16, 2009 10:46 pm

Around the cities here in the 70's there were more original bands then cover bands. And we all made real good money. Then it slowly started to drift toward more cover bands. We've got one cover band there that's been at it since like 87 and still gets a huge price at most clubs. Jonah and the Whales.

Abomb Muchbaby
Member
Since: Jul 02, 2009

Nov 18, 2009 09:09 am

I will say this, we have played many bars and clubs here in Cleveland. The typical chotch bar doesn't really like for you to play your own songs, but the way I see it is it should be at the bands discretion to choose their songs. It can be difficult to judge how the crowd is going to react to covers or originals, but part of being a band that plays to make money is to use your own judgement when it comes to song selection. We have had times where we were rolling and the crowd was rockin, and then we bust out an original song and it deflates the whole bar. On the other hand, we have had original songs go over really well, it depends on the bar and the crowd. From a bar owner's point of view, if you have bands coming in and the crowd is not into the music, move on and find another band. God knows there are plenty of crappy bands around here, and I don't see why it would be any different in any other city. But to dictate song selection and what you can or can't play is ridiculous. It's basically a total slap in the face to any musician with even an ounce of self esteem or pride...

Member
Since: Nov 17, 2009

Nov 18, 2009 05:34 pm

Well, you may see this as a good or bad thing...
You could have been describing venues in the UK, similar problems.
One of the worst is that fire regulations dictate that a lot of pubs and small venues cannot use bands with more than 2 people unless there are more fire exits. I never heard a good reason for that.
Clubs went through a fad of these dB cutouts in the 80s, it simply ruined entertainment for the customers and seems to have dissapeared (thank gawd)

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Nov 18, 2009 11:05 pm

Wolfie, is that you?

Oh ya, just checked your profile.

Welcome to HRC indeed, glad you stopped by.

Member
Since: Aug 13, 2005

Nov 19, 2009 01:26 pm

Played at a wedding gig at a posh hotel with a meter that was tripping out before we set up ! The manager (twit) said it trips out every band . Having signed a contract to work within the limits we took an electric drum kit and all played through the pa with a sound guy watching the lights on the meter. We got through the night but would have told him to shove it where the sun dont shine if I didn't know the bride and groom. It is possible to play quieter but at those levels there was no dynamics. Some venues have the traffic lights on but let you bypass the meter. There are some tricks to get past it like sticking clear tape over the meter mike or plugging in a phoney power cable then use a long extention to a separate socket. hehe.

Member
Since: Jun 19, 2009

Nov 21, 2009 12:46 am

never would i play that club under any circumstance ever

i got two 4x12s and an Engl that i blast at 8, drummer has an 8 piece starclassic and bassist has a vader 8x10 and ampeg rig.
we'd break that stupid decibel rule first note

we played one time and for soundcheck every other band told us to turn our amps and **** down, we wanted them turned up, and did. **** a sound rule dude, its rock n roll. ever since i got my rig like it is i looooove playing LOUD!!!! anything else besides loud is worse lol

i was speechless after i read that dude, that sucks. I'd play there just to break those rules, just to **** with them, cuz u never know, maybe one of em would figure out it deserves to be broken. 90dc sound rule...bah!

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