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Doug Babbitt Member Since: Dec 23, 2008		Oct 26, 2009 05:57 pm My 14 year old son (same one who screams in a hardcore band) plays double bass in his school orchestra. When I learned that the school had acquired some sound reinforcement gear, I approached the department head to offer any gear or other help he might need. Today he asked if I would help with a concert Wednesday night. He wants to mic violin and bass solos (I must say, my kid has good chops). The school has a pair of powered Mackie mains (same as mine) and some inexpensive condenser mics (probably Behringer C-2s, like mine, which are realy not bad). I assume they have an analog board. Any thoughts on how best to address this would be appreciated. I have a Shure dynamic mic designed for bass and kick (their lower tier model). Should I try it? Would it help to use my Yamaha 01V board? Thanks.
Rob Stemple The Czar of BS Contributor Since: Dec 31, 2007		Oct 26, 2009 06:19 pm Hey Doug. See if you can find someone that rents Countrymen ISOMAX II's. Just to put on the Violin. For the bass, you can take either a 58, or a BeyerDynamic M88, and put it on a stand that just faces the bridge of the bass. As close as you can without the mic hitting. With all string instruments, your going to have a problem with 250hz, and 400hz. Just because of where the strings want to resonate with the speakers. When your checking the EQ of the system in the beginning, pull out more of the 250, and 400 that you normally would. Don't worry, it will be a nice even sound. In live situations, you will never be able to get that big huge fat sound without it feeding back. Just the nature of the beast!
Doug Babbitt Member Since: Dec 23, 2008		Oct 26, 2009 09:30 pm Update: I spoke with the orchestra teacher and he wasn't planning on using the powered Mackies, which are at the high school. The middle school has its own gear. In his words, "I thought we could hook-up a microphone for the violin and one for the bass and connect them to an amp .... or something." Not to worry, that's why I offered to help. On the positive side, he knows this is a weakness for him. On the negative side, he doesn't know how badly it can go wrong. I'm meeting him at 7:30 tomorrow morning to see if they have anything usable. If not, I'll put together a small rig of my stuff. I'm thinking the 01V mixer, a pair of Mackie SRM450 powered speakers, 31 band GEQ. Anything else? I'll call one or two folks about the violin mic, but I have my doubts about finding one in Rutland, Vermont. What's the least bad choice for violin from my weak mic inventory (sm58, sm57, Behringer C-2)? I can't begin to tell you how much more fun this is than working in a bar.
Rob Stemple The Czar of BS Contributor Since: Dec 31, 2007		Oct 26, 2009 09:43 pm OK. Use the 57 on a tall stand. Try and get the mic to look right down at the bridge of the Violin. The only issue that you will encounter here, is when the Violinist moves about, they will drop in and out. :( Hopefully you will be able to convince them to stay in one spot while playing. There is a major rental company right around you in Vermont. I'll look up the link to them.
Rob Stemple The Czar of BS Contributor Since: Dec 31, 2007		Oct 26, 2009 09:45 pm Well, as a matter of fact....... They are right in Rutland! www.atomicproaudio.com/
Doug Babbitt Member Since: Dec 23, 2008		Oct 26, 2009 10:02 pm I knew you were going to look them up! That's one of the few local businesses where I don't have a connection. I was going to call my local music retailer first. They're actually local, so I like to give them a shot when I can. Then I was going to call Atomic. Actually, I may just drop into their shop at lunchtime. It's harder for them to brush me off in person. What are the odds they're interested in renting one mic? Rob, as I think about this it raises a question .... In your experience, would a good sized sound company typically be willing to support local music education by loaning out equipment on occassion? I'm pretty sure I could give them references to convince them that I can be trusted as a point person for the schools. We've really got some great music programs in this area, but sound reinforcement is viewed more as a black art than as a profession.
Rob Stemple The Czar of BS Contributor Since: Dec 31, 2007		Oct 26, 2009 10:15 pm A lot of companies that I have worked for in the Philly area will do free, or extreme discounts for schools. This way they get the tax break for working for a non profit. Now, this is not the case with most companies. And I don't know if Atomic will. But, if your there in person, they should be willing to deal. Even if it is only one mic. If they don't, then they are not worth anything as a rental company! And as for the Black art....... I kind of know what you mean. My wife and I vacation just about every year in West Danville. And they always give us that crocked dog look when we tell them what we do for a living. Usually followed by, "Not much call for that sort of thing up here."
Doug Babbitt Member Since: Dec 23, 2008		Oct 26, 2009 10:39 pm As we say in the more civilized precincts, "West Danville, eh? That's God's Country." Ever had any luck in the ice out contest?
Noize2u Czar of Midi Administrator Since: Apr 04, 2002		Oct 26, 2009 10:39 pm I love the Black Art part. Some of my early work was referred to that way. Hopefully Atomic would be willing to help you out. Like Rob said, if their worth their salt they should.
Rob Stemple The Czar of BS Contributor Since: Dec 31, 2007		Oct 26, 2009 10:43 pm Came close to winning Ice out! Missed it by 2 days!
Rob Stemple The Czar of BS Contributor Since: Dec 31, 2007		Oct 26, 2009 10:46 pm The last one was no fair! The wind unplugged the clock! What's up with that!?!
Noize2u Czar of Midi Administrator Since: Apr 04, 2002		Oct 26, 2009 10:59 pm Before society got all soft we used to drive a car out on the ice with a cable on it to toe it out after it fell through. You put your money down on when it would fall through right down to the time of day. Usually within minutes to help narrow down any multiple's. Can't do that anymore. West Danville sounds like a nice place.
Rob Stemple The Czar of BS Contributor Since: Dec 31, 2007		Oct 26, 2009 11:07 pm It's the same thing Noize. But, instead of a car, it's an old fashion alarm clock. The old White simple transformer clock. It's tied to a bunch of cider blocks. With an Orange extension cord plugged into it. Oh, and a bright Orange flag. That way they can see it with Binoculars. So, same as the car. When the blocks fall though the ice, they pull up the clock and look at the time on the dial. So, it's date and time. I think that the Jackpot is up to $5k now. And dig this...... It's the same clock that they started with some 15 years or more ago. This year, the wind blew so hard that it unplugged the clock. And the rules stated that it's when the clock stops.
Rob Stemple The Czar of BS Contributor Since: Dec 31, 2007		Oct 26, 2009 11:13 pm joespondvermont.com/iceout.html
Doug Babbitt Member Since: Dec 23, 2008		Oct 27, 2009 11:25 am Dang! I hijacked my own thread. So I met with the orchestra teacher this morning and persuaded him that we aren't sufficiently prepared to ensure a good result tomorrow night. Our contribution, in my opinion, was more likely to be negative than positive. That was separate from my observations of the available gear. The middle school has an ancient looking Kustom amp and a dusty pair of no name speakers with 8" woofers ("these should be good enough," says the orchestra teacher). I didn't bother asking about microphones. The teacher is really an extraordinary guy, who brings the best out of his students. He also has an amazing ear. He'll have all 12 violins, for example, play a certain string, then walk straight to the one that isn't perfect. Sometimes he'll adjust the fine tuner, but more often than not he'll pinch the offending string between two fingers, give it a little tug, then a pluck, then hand it back to the kid. I mentioned this practice to him after he started telling me that there's a fund available to buy new sound equipment and maybe he should get some really good microphones. The point that I made to him is that he can't buy his way to good sound. The best gear in the world is going to ruin the sound of those beautifully tuned instruments if it's not used properly. After I left the school I started to think that the orchestra students should get at least a little instruction regarding sound reinforcement. At the very least, it seems like they ought to know how to properly employ a microphone or pickup on their instrument. An overview on the signal chain, gain structure, eq, and effects might also come in handy, especially when the system and/or the tech isn't the best. I'm still going to contact Atomic Audio and see what sort of relationship they would consider with the schools. We seem to need more guidance than gear. Edit: Just remembered this comment by the teacher: "It would be nice to have someone who knows about the sound system to help when things go wrong." My response: "When done it's done properly, you don't have problems." Sure, things happen, but he needs to set the bar a bit higher.
Noize2u Czar of Midi Administrator Since: Apr 04, 2002		Oct 27, 2009 08:01 pm So your going to do the gig or not at the moment? I think even a minimum contribution from you with your gear will help at least somewhat to get them a better performance sound. And yes, that was the same type thing with the car. Cool they have their own website.
Doug Babbitt Member Since: Dec 23, 2008		Oct 27, 2009 09:14 pm Noize - Also in the room as I spoke with the orchestra teacher this morning were the band teacher and general music teacher. They both chimed in to say that the same concert performed for students last week in the same auditorium sounded fine with zero reinforcement. That was basically a dress rehearsal for the big concert Wednesday, which is meant for parents, grandparents, etc. The orchestra guy seems to be under the impression that using a "sound system" will make the show better. He takes the sound of the instruments seriously, but has no idea of sound reinforcement beyond plug and play. Nothing will be miked tomorrow night and it will sound great. I'll see if I can develop an alliance with the local sound pros, so that maybe we can help in the future if sound reinforcement is appropriate.
Noize2u Czar of Midi Administrator Since: Apr 04, 2002		Oct 27, 2009 10:02 pm Ah yes. As long as the players are all up to playing at a full level, which it sounds like they are then it should all be fine.
uggclassic Banned		Nov 07, 2009 12:07 am Deleted By dB Masters

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